POLL: Do you care if a comic has been pressed?

[Mr. Zipper]

Ironically, when last polled, the majority of respondents here answered that they thought pressing WAS restoration (although minor).

 

So, if you put the results together, most people don't care about minor restoration?

 

In any case, a pressing poll conducted here has about as much validity of a poll of the health value of fries and shakes on a McDonald's message board. I'm actually surprised the number of people that care is as high as it is. 32% is hardly the fringe minority as some people would spin it.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Ironically, when last polled, the majority of respondents here answered that they thought pressing WAS restoration (although minor).

 

So, if you put the results together, most people don't care about minor restoration?

 

In any case, a pressing poll conducted here has about as much validity of a poll of the health value of fries and shakes on a McDonald's message board. I'm actually surprised the number of people that care is as high as it is. 32% is hardly the fringe minority as some people would spin it.

 

Already discussed. If you ask if the disclosure is the major point it would be at least 50/50

[Mr. Zipper]

Ironically, when last polled, the majority of respondents here answered that they thought pressing WAS restoration (although minor).

 

So, if you put the results together, most people don't care about minor restoration?

 

In any case, a pressing poll conducted here has about as much validity of a poll of the health value of fries and shakes on a McDonald's message board. I'm actually surprised the number of people that care is as high as it is. 32% is hardly the fringe minority as some people would spin it.

 

Already discussed.

 

I scrolled though it quickly once it started looking like the same old same old.

 

Although, pickycollector made some fresh and thought provoking posts.

[Drakeprimeone]

Ok here's my definition of Restoration.

 

Restoration involves ADDING NEW/FOREIGN ELEMENTS to an original object or in the case of trimming REMOVING ORIGINAL ELEMENTS to make it appear closer to its "new" state.

 

This would include trimming, paint, ink, pieces, pages, and parts.

 

Pressing doesn't add anything to a books original state. It just takes the book and makes it flatter.

 

Apply this definition to other items like cars.

 

Applying paint or putting in new parts = Restoration

Giving it a car wash = Not Restoration

 

It may not be the official definition... just my definition hence why no big deal to me (and to many others) if a comic book is pressed.

[gpanalysis]

 

Restoration involves ADDING NEW and/or FOREIGN ELEMENTS to an original object to make it appear closer to its "new" state.

 

 

Only problem with your definition of course is that it leaves good-ol trimming, something TAKEN AWAY but not ADDED, as non-restoration...

[Drakeprimeone]

 

Restoration involves ADDING NEW and/or FOREIGN ELEMENTS to an original object to make it appear closer to its "new" state.

 

 

Only problem with your definition of course is that it leaves good-ol trimming, something TAKEN AWAY but not ADDED, as non-restoration...

 

yea you responded right before I edited my post to reflect that

trimming is the one exception

 

the summary is nothing is being permanently added or taken away from the original book

[gpanalysis]

But see, that's the problem with all this restoration/conservation definitions. There really isn't one universal definition and hence why some methods fall into a grey area and become emotive topics.

 

Deacidification is widely considered a process of preserving (and hence a method of conservation) in many circles, and yet in our little hobby you get the dreaded PLOD when it's detected and there's negativity attached to it. The process of cleaning/deacid. has, over time, become one we (as a hobby) want disclosed or identified, even though many conservators would not see it as a negative process.

 

As there is still a lot of debate and emotion involved with something like pressing, something I don't personally consider restoration, the words restoration get tossed around, which inevatibly adds a negative aspect to the process. I don't like the process, but to taint it as restoration unfortunately detracts from the main issue pressing posses: that it is mainly about disclosure, and as some see it, an ethical responsibility to disclose the process. There is no definition set in stone (of whether it is good, bad, restoration, conservation, etc), and no law against it (that I know of).

 

Just like trimming or deacidification/cleaning are considered by the authorities in our hobby as restoration, the fact that I don't consider them as such is irrelevant. It's not law, but it's established in our hobby. If you don't disclose it (trimming/cleaning/etc) then you are against the rules we have all set for ourselves over time.

 

The same goes for pressing. Until a concensus is reached by our hobby, then it will remain in this kind of twilight zone limbo. It will be debated to death over and over, and extremes will be used to define it at either end of the scale. If enough collectors want it disclosed, or investigated further (example methods of detection) then it will go that way. Only when the majority votes with its feet and money will it become the norm. Otherwise, it will not - pure and simple.

[Drakeprimeone]

Actually deacidification would still fit nicely into my definition of restoration as you are permanently adding a foreign element to the book (the cleaner) to permanently remove elements that have become part of the book (dirt, stains, discolor, etc)

 

you can still compare it to cars

 

Chipping rust away from the body of a car = Restoration

Washing the body of the car = Not Restoration

[Davenport]

But see, that's the problem with all this restoration/conservation definitions. There really isn't one universal definition and hence why some methods fall into a grey area and become emotive topics.

 

Deacidification is widely considered a process of preserving (and hence a method of conservation) in many circles, and yet in our little hobby you get the dreaded PLOD when it's detected and there's negativity attached to it. The process of cleaning/deacid. has, over time, become one we (as a hobby) want disclosed or identified, even though many conservators would not see it as a negative process.

 

As there is still a lot of debate and emotion involved with something like pressing, something I don't personally consider restoration, the words restoration get tossed around, which inevatibly adds a negative aspect to the process. I don't like the process, but to taint it as restoration unfortunately detracts from the main issue pressing posses: that it is mainly about disclosure, and as some see it, an ethical responsibility to disclose the process. There is no definition set in stone (of whether it is good, bad, restoration, conservation, etc), and no law against it (that I know of).

 

Just like trimming or deacidification/cleaning are considered by the authorities in our hobby as restoration, the fact that I don't consider them as such is irrelevant. It's not law, but it's established in our hobby. If you don't disclose it (trimming/cleaning/etc) then you are against the rules we have all set for ourselves over time.

 

The same goes for pressing. Until a concensus is reached by our hobby, then it will remain in this kind of twilight zone limbo. It will be debated to death over and over, and extremes will be used to define it at either end of the scale. If enough collectors want it disclosed, or investigated further (example methods of detection) then it will go that way. Only when the majority votes with its feet and money will it become the norm. Otherwise, it will not - pure and simple.

I don't think of any professional treatment as a "negative process" (until you get into amature, damaging, clandestine, or improperly executed treatments). All serve their specific purpose and have a place.

 

What drives me nuts with the crack-out-game is on the Grading side. The 'two-out-of-three equasion'... A gamer understands the nature of paper, can look at a paper-state and decide "that's a non-damaged, non-permanent reversible defect". The gamer then sends it on to the Prep Service, who also understands the nature of paper, looks at the paper-state and confirms " yep, it's a non-damaged, non-permanent reversible defect". But that's only two out of three.

 

I can imagine another universe where graders are just and astute as any gamer or prep service, can see exactly what is so easily reversed, and take it into full account in an overall "grade". There's no law that requires harsh hammering of non-damaged, non-permanent, reversible paper-states. Especially the miniscule nano variety that have transformed comics from collectible to quick-flip cash crop.

[con]

if it increases my CGC score I don't care

[codfish]

Ok here's my definition of Restoration.

 

Restoration involves ADDING NEW/FOREIGN ELEMENTS to an original object or in the case of trimming REMOVING ORIGINAL ELEMENTS to make it appear closer to its "new" state.

 

This would include trimming, paint, ink, pieces, pages, and parts.

 

Pressing doesn't add anything to a books original state. It just takes the book and makes it flatter.

 

Apply this definition to other items like cars.

 

Applying paint or putting in new parts = Restoration

Giving it a car wash = Not Restoration

 

Removing Dents from a car = restoration

 

Myself I don't know what to answer because I would sometimes say yes if the pressing is removing stress that is risking the structural integrity of the book. If it is just to remove some of the minor dents and creases I would say no. I see no point in doing anything restorative/conservation to a book that is 6.0 and up, except if a defect risks the integrity of the book.

[Moondog]

When the bubble finally bursts and the consumers of these products take a bath like no other....it will be interesting to see who gets labeled the `villian`.

 

I don't believe there are any heroes or villians in the hobby. If not for the HG market and CGC, I don't think this hobby would be where its at today or continue to strive the way it has been.

 

I remember the late 80's and early 90's where people could not give books away at shows, and I am not talking mid grade or better.

 

There will always be people with deep pockets and if/when this bubble does burst, I highly doubt it would hurt their bottom line as oppose to your basic everyday collector.

 

Realistically, if the HG market tanks this overall hobby will be right behind it. People should be happy whether you agree or disagree at the current state of affairs concerning this hobby as it sure as hell beats selling your books for pennies per pound.

 

When the bubble bursts.....you can be sure that those that take a bath will be looking to assign blame. IMO......structural manipulation of grades will be at the forefront of that lynching.

 

(thumbs u Very astute observation. It shows a keen understanding of not only the comic book marketplace but collectible markets in general.

 

[Biohazard]

I don't care if someone presses a comic or not, but I would like the fact that it has been pressed made available before I purchased the book.This way I won't have to waist my money pressing it again.

[sterlingcomics]

You can care because of the manipulation to a book no longer pure, disclosure that will never be 100% accurate b/c there's no global definitive documentation, or the price increase as a direct impact by pressing, or the fact that you consider pressing to be restoration.

 

The fact is...you can care all you want but it won't change the fact that it is here (it just didn't pop up yesterday although you can argue that CGC provides a vehicle for people to optimize profits via pressing)...you definitely have the right to WANT to have things a certain way but imho it's a losing battle. Accept it or do what you need to do to address your concerns...just as there are many other factors facing collectors that have to be acknowledged as being imperfect such as: that grading is subjective, restoration is sometimes not detected, and the other zillion pitfalls available in this hobby. If you can't accept or manage the risks... :shrug:

 

To be honest...when the hobby takes a look at itself in the mirror...I'm surprised people stay stay in it despite the overwhelming odds against the collector. For me, it crept up on me...for newer collectors...the information appears to be more readily available. I still love this hobby but it definitely is no longer through rose colored glasses.

 

So, as a result...the poll is useless imho. Care...or care not. If you care, you'll institute processes to mitigate risks...as many people here have. That can include being proactive/responsible (which is fallible), joining organizations, selling your collection, or ignoring it.

 

 

[Chespirito]

I don't care if someone presses a comic or not, but I would like the fact that it has been pressed made available before I purchased the book.This way I won't have to waist my money pressing it again.

 

You press books, man, you should really start a thread on that...WTTB!

[jbud73]

if it increases my CGC score I don't care

 

You know after reading all the pages (again) this is the post that resonates with me the most. I'm not calling out the poster, just acknowledging that this is the sentiment that caused the Church books to be color touched and made glue find its way to their spines ... and so on down the road. This is the idea that will always permeate the hobby and why pressing is the new Pandora.

 

I think it is maybe that sometimes we forget, or are swayed by our love to wish it away, or expected CGC to clean it all up (and they have cleaned up so much) while exposing, or exploiting so much else that goes on. I really don't know but in the end the strive for the best examples for a collection can bring out the very best and very worst tendencies in all people and everything in between.

[sterlingcomics]

in the end the strive for the best examples for a collection can bring out the very best and very worst tendencies in all people and everything in between.

 

:thumbsup:

[THE_BEYONDER]

Doug made the same judgments that I did, only he did it better than I did. Hey, I left alot of money on the table too. About 21K. And you know what, I am happy for him. Because for every book that things work out well on, there are 5 books that don't, especially when you are paying the type of prices that he paid. He has built his business up and invested tons of time and money on it. He should reap the benefits from it.

 

 

 

 

Doug built his business up by stealing from old ladies.

[Mr.Diggler]

Doug made the same judgments that I did, only he did it better than I did. Hey, I left alot of money on the table too. About 21K. And you know what, I am happy for him. Because for every book that things work out well on, there are 5 books that don't, especially when you are paying the type of prices that he paid. He has built his business up and invested tons of time and money on it. He should reap the benefits from it.

 

 

 

 

Doug built his business up by stealing from old ladies.

[slym2none]

What is pressing, and why do some people consider it bad?

 

 

 

 

-slym (do you hate him yet?)