POLL: Do you care if a comic has been pressed?

[Mr.Diggler]

When the bubble finally bursts and the consumers of these products take a bath like no other....it will be interesting to see who gets labeled the `villian`.

 

I don't believe there are any heroes or villians in the hobby. If not for the HG market and CGC, I don't think this hobby would be where its at today or continue to strive the way it has been.

 

I remember the late 80's and early 90's where people could not give books away at shows, and I am not talking mid grade or better.

 

There will always be people with deep pockets and if/when this bubble does burst, I highly doubt it would hurt their bottom line as oppose to your basic everyday collector.

 

Realistically, if the HG market tanks this overall hobby will be right behind it. People should be happy whether you agree or disagree at the current state of affairs concerning this hobby as it sure as hell beats selling your books for pennies per pound.

 

When the bubble bursts.....you can be sure that those that take a bath will be looking to assign blame. IMO......structural manipulation of grades will be at the forefront of that lynching.

 

This is lunacy. The entirety of the hobby with the exception of about 50 people, almost all of whom are here on these boards have accepted it. If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC. If they change their policy with regards to pressing, it will all but stop overnight.

 

Everyone who supports CGC in any way is just as responsible. If you believe that, put your money where you mouth is and no longer buy or sell CGC graded books, and no longer come on their boards. Otherwise, you are simply a hypocrite.

 

Structural manipulation of grades...........

Too much coin to be made for a change of policy. But

[joeypost]

When the bubble finally bursts and the consumers of these products take a bath like no other....it will be interesting to see who gets labeled the `villian`.

 

I don't believe there are any heroes or villians in the hobby. If not for the HG market and CGC, I don't think this hobby would be where its at today or continue to strive the way it has been.

 

I remember the late 80's and early 90's where people could not give books away at shows, and I am not talking mid grade or better.

 

There will always be people with deep pockets and if/when this bubble does burst, I highly doubt it would hurt their bottom line as oppose to your basic everyday collector.

 

Realistically, if the HG market tanks this overall hobby will be right behind it. People should be happy whether you agree or disagree at the current state of affairs concerning this hobby as it sure as hell beats selling your books for pennies per pound.

 

When the bubble bursts.....you can be sure that those that take a bath will be looking to assign blame. IMO......structural manipulation of grades will be at the forefront of that lynching.

 

This is lunacy. The entirety of the hobby with the exception of about 50 people, almost all of whom are here on these boards have accepted it. If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC. If they change their policy with regards to pressing, it will all but stop overnight.

 

Everyone who supports CGC in any way is just as responsible. If you believe that, put your money where you mouth is and no longer buy or sell CGC graded books, and no longer come on their boards. Otherwise, you are simply a hypocrite.

 

Structural manipulation of grades...........

 

Ok, this is now the post of the day.

 

I agree Dale and maybe when the bubble does burst all the nay-sayers will disappear and the true hobbyists will remain to enjoy whats left. Manipulated, restored, pressed or not.

[THE_BEYONDER]

When the bubble finally bursts and the consumers of these products take a bath like no other....it will be interesting to see who gets labeled the `villian`.

 

I don't believe there are any heroes or villians in the hobby. If not for the HG market and CGC, I don't think this hobby would be where its at today or continue to strive the way it has been.

 

I remember the late 80's and early 90's where people could not give books away at shows, and I am not talking mid grade or better.

 

There will always be people with deep pockets and if/when this bubble does burst, I highly doubt it would hurt their bottom line as oppose to your basic everyday collector.

 

Realistically, if the HG market tanks this overall hobby will be right behind it. People should be happy whether you agree or disagree at the current state of affairs concerning this hobby as it sure as hell beats selling your books for pennies per pound.

 

When the bubble bursts.....you can be sure that those that take a bath will be looking to assign blame. IMO......structural manipulation of grades will be at the forefront of that lynching.

 

This is lunacy. The entirety of the hobby with the exception of about 50 people, almost all of whom are here on these boards have accepted it. If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC. If they change their policy with regards to pressing, it will all but stop overnight.

 

Everyone who supports CGC in any way is just as responsible. If you believe that, put your money where you mouth is and no longer buy or sell CGC graded books, and no longer come on their boards. Otherwise, you are simply a hypocrite.

 

Structural manipulation of grades...........

 

Ok, this is now the post of the day.

 

I agree Dale and maybe when the bubble does burst all the nay-sayers will disappear and the true hobbyists will remain to enjoy whats left. Manipulated, restored, pressed or not.

 

Wow. I'm now a hypocrite.....and far removed from the "true hobbyists"?

 

 

Talk about bizarro world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Inhuman Fiend]

Well said, Dale and Joe. I agree completely!

[fantastic_four]

If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC.

 

Why is it CGC's fault?

[nik]

It's CGCs fault when you are buying but not when you are selling

[pickycollector]

Yes I would like to know if a comic has been pressed or not because we don't know the long term effects pressing has on comics.

 

You do realise a book is pressed and heated when it is printed. IIRC I still see some books for the 1930's in high grade slabs. Did not appear to have too negative of an effect on those books.

 

Books are also trimmed when they are printed.

 

Exactly....

 

OK, gloves off

 

This pressing thing is making me sick.....

 

Yes, I would like to know if a book has been pressed and as a collector, I would NEVER want to buy a book that has been pressed.

 

Make me think of the early ages of restoration and trimming, when a lot of people were restoring or trimming books because most people could not detect it. How many great books have been wasted because of that...

 

I remember many years ago that restoration was a big thing. Sending books to Susan Cicconi or Mark Wilson was supposed to increase value. Trimming books slightly was also supposed to be impossible to detect. I never did believe it and I am glad today I never did. For example, I knew Jason Ewert for years, bought a few books from him BEFORE he started that trimming thing but I did stop buying from him when he tried to sell me a book that I did suspect was trimmed and he didn't tell me. Trimming obviously did work well for him for a while and the honest seller he was at the beginning became the greedy and dishonest seller all people will now remember. This is sad. And the only reason it did work well is that CGC could not detect it....until they finally could and it was over.

 

Greed did push people to alter comic books and restore and/or trim them. I really think the same thing is happening again with pressing.

 

Yes, pressing, trimming, inking, etc. is all normal process WHEN the book is printed. Doing it after though alter the original condition of the book. Call it restoration, preservation, whatever, your book is no longer in its original condition.

 

I like to say that I do own books that are in their original 9.4-9.6 condition.

 

Therefore, my humble advise to any seller whom press books would be, AT THE VERY LEAST, disclose the fact when you are selling such a book.

 

I can understand that many sellers want to maximize their profit by pressing the books they have for sale. I disagree, but I understand. But I will NEVER buy from a seller whom does not disclose the fact that the book has been pressed, especially if he did it himself.

 

For those sellers whom press books AND disclose the fact, although I disagree, you have my respect.

 

Now, although, as a collector, I know I will never want to own a pressed book in my collection, as a seller, I am really tormented here.

 

I've sold raw 8.5 books that became CGC 9.6 after being pressed. Also, knowing that a book I did own for years sold for $24K after being pressed make me question myself : why should I not become a greedy seller as well ? I have the books for that. We all want to make money. I do too.

 

The only answer I found: I just can't and I don't know why...

 

Am I stupid for not pressing my books ? Maybe I am. Maybe not. Future will tell.

 

But knowing that other people are doing it really REALLY hurts. $24K is a lot of money !!

 

If you can't beat it, join it, they say.

 

I am still pondering this...

 

 

 

Here is something else to ponder......

 

The book raw in the condition you owned(FF #112) was worth somewhere around $125.00. However, you bought into what CGC was selling when you got the book slabbed. Whether you trusted their opinion on grading, or their reassurance that the book was not restored, you valued their opinion enough to get the book graded. I don't really know what your motivation was, but I have to believe that at least some of your interest was turning a 125.00 book into a book with higher value. Basically turning the $125 book into a $1000.00 book. What was your motivation here? This is the question to ask yourself....was it financially motivated or was it for CGC's reassurance of NO restoration.

 

I have no problem either way. You are just as entitled to make money off comics as anyone else. However, if you valued CGCs opinion enough to get the book graded, then you should also value their opinion on pressing. CGCs judgment is that pressing is NOT restoration. Either you trust them or you don't. You can't have it both ways. The number on the slab and the blue label are equal parts of what they are selling.

 

The book was purchased by me for one reason. To make money on. I thought the book had a solid shot as a straight 9.6 candidate on resub, without pressing, making it in effect a $2500.00 - 3000.00 book. However, there is considerable risk in that judgment. Several others(including several board members) looked at the book and thought there was no hope of any upgrade. That is part of my job. To be able to find undervalued books (either due to scarcity, supply and demand, grading or other) and distinguish whether or not something is worth purchasing. Sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong, but I thought the book was worth taking the chance on.

 

Doug came to my table and saw the book behind the table. He asked and I told him I was not really interested in selling the book right now, as I was going to resub it. He was willing to purchase the book at the 9.6 price, even though it was in a 9.4 holder. We both agreed that the book could probably benefit from pressing, as there was a tiny non color breaking thumb print on the right edge. We haggled for awhile and finally came to a price on the book which was satisfactory to both of us, which ended up being around the 9.6 price. (Doug also bought probably another 25 slabs from me, which I have no doubt he was intending to press and resub, so I am not exactly sure what the exact price on this particular book was).

 

I had no idea that the book would fetch 24K. Who did? I can't imagine anyone would have predicted that. I thought 10K was a realistic price for the book (uhh, did I really just type that? I guess reality has been altered a bit in the current market).

 

Doug made the same judgments that I did, only he did it better than I did. Hey, I left alot of money on the table too. About 21K. And you know what, I am happy for him. Because for every book that things work out well on, there are 5 books that don't, especially when you are paying the type of prices that he paid. He has built his business up and invested tons of time and money on it. He should reap the benefits from it.

 

Back some 16 years ago, I bought a nice JIM #1 for about $125.00 from a local comic store. The book appeared to be underpriced to me, and I knew it was a tough book, but I didn't really know how tough. I flipped the book to a dealer for $250.00. He, in turn, sold the book to Harley for $750.00 and where it went from there, I don't know. I suspect it went for at least $1000.00 though. But that is part of the game.

 

It is unfortunate that you feel like you are out all that money.

 

You did not understand my point.

 

I have nothing against doing some money. Yes, indeed, I love buying raw books and send some of them to CGC for grade certification. I also love buying CGC books that I think were undergraded and crack them for either: 1) add them raw in my collection or 2) re-submit them and get a higher grade for an eventual re-sale with profit (it did happen more than once).

 

I sold a lot of books to Harley as well, which he did resell for much higher. I also did buy a lot from him throughout the last 20 years or so and some of these books have increased considerably in value today.

 

I also have sold raw books that I may have slightly undergraded and the buyer got a higher CGC grade for it. I am then happy for the buyer and for me, as chances are he will be a repeat buyer. It is very hard to predict the CGC grade as it can goes either way. Submitting books to CGC is often a gamble. Not submitting can also be a gamble. In both, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is part of the game indeed. I totally agree with that.

 

HOWEVER, I disagree with pressing a book in order to get a higher grade nor did I agree many years ago with trimming a book. Weeks ago, I did call CGC and asked them why pressing is not considered as restoration. The answer was that since they cannot detect it, it cannot be considered as restoration. Then I asked why did they give so many blue labels to books that have been slightly trimmed by seller "ejaenter" at that time ? Their answer then was very evasive...

 

So if CGC was unable to detect trimming at that time, does it mean that the ejaenter books can be considered as "unrestored" ? that their blue label was deserved ?

 

Ask yourself this question : if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

I know I would not.

 

My philosophy is simple : I do NOT alter the condition of a book in any form. This means no trimming, no color touch-up, no pressing, NOTHING !!!

 

It's not the fact that the FF 112 CGC 9.8 sold for $24K that really bothers me. I did own that book for years, and although i think it was worthy of 9.6, NO WAY it could be a 9.8 in its original condition. What does bother me is that it was a former CGC 9.4 transformed by pressing into a CGC 9.8. Like it did bother me that a book I sold raw as an 8.5 has been pressed and received a 9.6 label.

 

When you can transform 8.5 raw books into CGC 9.6 books, especially with the awesome prices 9.6/9.8 sell for today, then I begin to think that this hobby is no longer a hobby...

[Dale Roberts]

If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC.

 

Why is it CGC's fault?

 

If you will read the proceeding posts, it is spelled out.

[joeypost]

Yes I would like to know if a comic has been pressed or not because we don't know the long term effects pressing has on comics.

 

You do realise a book is pressed and heated when it is printed. IIRC I still see some books for the 1930's in high grade slabs. Did not appear to have too negative of an effect on those books.

 

Books are also trimmed when they are printed.

 

Exactly....

 

OK, gloves off

 

This pressing thing is making me sick.....

 

Yes, I would like to know if a book has been pressed and as a collector, I would NEVER want to buy a book that has been pressed.

 

Make me think of the early ages of restoration and trimming, when a lot of people were restoring or trimming books because most people could not detect it. How many great books have been wasted because of that...

 

I remember many years ago that restoration was a big thing. Sending books to Susan Cicconi or Mark Wilson was supposed to increase value. Trimming books slightly was also supposed to be impossible to detect. I never did believe it and I am glad today I never did. For example, I knew Jason Ewert for years, bought a few books from him BEFORE he started that trimming thing but I did stop buying from him when he tried to sell me a book that I did suspect was trimmed and he didn't tell me. Trimming obviously did work well for him for a while and the honest seller he was at the beginning became the greedy and dishonest seller all people will now remember. This is sad. And the only reason it did work well is that CGC could not detect it....until they finally could and it was over.

 

Greed did push people to alter comic books and restore and/or trim them. I really think the same thing is happening again with pressing.

 

Yes, pressing, trimming, inking, etc. is all normal process WHEN the book is printed. Doing it after though alter the original condition of the book. Call it restoration, preservation, whatever, your book is no longer in its original condition.

 

I like to say that I do own books that are in their original 9.4-9.6 condition.

 

Therefore, my humble advise to any seller whom press books would be, AT THE VERY LEAST, disclose the fact when you are selling such a book.

 

I can understand that many sellers want to maximize their profit by pressing the books they have for sale. I disagree, but I understand. But I will NEVER buy from a seller whom does not disclose the fact that the book has been pressed, especially if he did it himself.

 

For those sellers whom press books AND disclose the fact, although I disagree, you have my respect.

 

Now, although, as a collector, I know I will never want to own a pressed book in my collection, as a seller, I am really tormented here.

 

I've sold raw 8.5 books that became CGC 9.6 after being pressed. Also, knowing that a book I did own for years sold for $24K after being pressed make me question myself : why should I not become a greedy seller as well ? I have the books for that. We all want to make money. I do too.

 

The only answer I found: I just can't and I don't know why...

 

Am I stupid for not pressing my books ? Maybe I am. Maybe not. Future will tell.

 

But knowing that other people are doing it really REALLY hurts. $24K is a lot of money !!

 

If you can't beat it, join it, they say.

 

I am still pondering this...

 

 

 

Here is something else to ponder......

 

The book raw in the condition you owned(FF #112) was worth somewhere around $125.00. However, you bought into what CGC was selling when you got the book slabbed. Whether you trusted their opinion on grading, or their reassurance that the book was not restored, you valued their opinion enough to get the book graded. I don't really know what your motivation was, but I have to believe that at least some of your interest was turning a 125.00 book into a book with higher value. Basically turning the $125 book into a $1000.00 book. What was your motivation here? This is the question to ask yourself....was it financially motivated or was it for CGC's reassurance of NO restoration.

 

I have no problem either way. You are just as entitled to make money off comics as anyone else. However, if you valued CGCs opinion enough to get the book graded, then you should also value their opinion on pressing. CGCs judgment is that pressing is NOT restoration. Either you trust them or you don't. You can't have it both ways. The number on the slab and the blue label are equal parts of what they are selling.

 

The book was purchased by me for one reason. To make money on. I thought the book had a solid shot as a straight 9.6 candidate on resub, without pressing, making it in effect a $2500.00 - 3000.00 book. However, there is considerable risk in that judgment. Several others(including several board members) looked at the book and thought there was no hope of any upgrade. That is part of my job. To be able to find undervalued books (either due to scarcity, supply and demand, grading or other) and distinguish whether or not something is worth purchasing. Sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong, but I thought the book was worth taking the chance on.

 

Doug came to my table and saw the book behind the table. He asked and I told him I was not really interested in selling the book right now, as I was going to resub it. He was willing to purchase the book at the 9.6 price, even though it was in a 9.4 holder. We both agreed that the book could probably benefit from pressing, as there was a tiny non color breaking thumb print on the right edge. We haggled for awhile and finally came to a price on the book which was satisfactory to both of us, which ended up being around the 9.6 price. (Doug also bought probably another 25 slabs from me, which I have no doubt he was intending to press and resub, so I am not exactly sure what the exact price on this particular book was).

 

I had no idea that the book would fetch 24K. Who did? I can't imagine anyone would have predicted that. I thought 10K was a realistic price for the book (uhh, did I really just type that? I guess reality has been altered a bit in the current market).

 

Doug made the same judgments that I did, only he did it better than I did. Hey, I left alot of money on the table too. About 21K. And you know what, I am happy for him. Because for every book that things work out well on, there are 5 books that don't, especially when you are paying the type of prices that he paid. He has built his business up and invested tons of time and money on it. He should reap the benefits from it.

 

Back some 16 years ago, I bought a nice JIM #1 for about $125.00 from a local comic store. The book appeared to be underpriced to me, and I knew it was a tough book, but I didn't really know how tough. I flipped the book to a dealer for $250.00. He, in turn, sold the book to Harley for $750.00 and where it went from there, I don't know. I suspect it went for at least $1000.00 though. But that is part of the game.

 

It is unfortunate that you feel like you are out all that money.

 

You did not understand my point.

 

I have nothing against doing some money. Yes, indeed, I love buying raw books and send some of them to CGC for grade certification. I also love buying CGC books that I think were undergraded and crack them for either: 1) add them raw in my collection or 2) re-submit them and get a higher grade for an eventual re-sale with profit (it did happen more than once).

 

I sold a lot of books to Harley as well, which he did resell for much higher. I also did buy a lot from him throughout the last 20 years or so and some of these books have increased considerably in value today.

 

I also have sold raw books that I may have slightly undergraded and the buyer got a higher CGC grade for it. I am then happy for the buyer and for me, as chances are he will be a repeat buyer. It is very hard to predict the CGC grade as it can goes either way. Submitting books to CGC is often a gamble. Not submitting can also be a gamble. In both, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is part of the game indeed. I totally agree with that.

 

HOWEVER, I disagree with pressing a book in order to get a higher grade nor did I agree many years ago with trimming a book. Weeks ago, I did call CGC and asked them why pressing is not considered as restoration. The answer was that since they cannot detect it, it cannot be considered as restoration. Then I asked why did they give so many blue labels to books that have been slightly trimmed by seller "ejaenter" at that time ? Their answer then was very evasive...

 

So if CGC was unable to detect trimming at that time, does it mean that the ejaenter books can be considered as "unrestored" ? that their blue label was deserved ?

 

Ask yourself this question : if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

I know I would not.

 

My philosophy is simple : I do NOT alter the condition of a book in any form. This means no trimming, no color touch-up, no pressing, NOTHING !!!

 

It's not the fact that the FF 112 CGC 9.8 sold for $24K that really bothers me. I did own that book for years, and although i think it was worthy of 9.6, NO WAY it could be a 9.8 in its original condition. What does bother me is that it was a former CGC 9.4 transformed by pressing into a CGC 9.8. Like it did bother me that a book I sold raw as an 8.5 has been pressed and received a 9.6 label.

 

When you can transform 8.5 raw books into CGC 9.6 books, especially with the awesome prices 9.6/9.8 sell for today, then I begin to think that this hobby is no longer a hobby...

 

Patrick,

 

Show me a hobby where money is involved (especially big money) where it truly remains just a hobby.

[Dale Roberts]

When the bubble finally bursts and the consumers of these products take a bath like no other....it will be interesting to see who gets labeled the `villian`.

 

I don't believe there are any heroes or villians in the hobby. If not for the HG market and CGC, I don't think this hobby would be where its at today or continue to strive the way it has been.

 

I remember the late 80's and early 90's where people could not give books away at shows, and I am not talking mid grade or better.

 

There will always be people with deep pockets and if/when this bubble does burst, I highly doubt it would hurt their bottom line as oppose to your basic everyday collector.

 

Realistically, if the HG market tanks this overall hobby will be right behind it. People should be happy whether you agree or disagree at the current state of affairs concerning this hobby as it sure as hell beats selling your books for pennies per pound.

 

When the bubble bursts.....you can be sure that those that take a bath will be looking to assign blame. IMO......structural manipulation of grades will be at the forefront of that lynching.

 

This is lunacy. The entirety of the hobby with the exception of about 50 people, almost all of whom are here on these boards have accepted it. If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC. If they change their policy with regards to pressing, it will all but stop overnight.

 

Everyone who supports CGC in any way is just as responsible. If you believe that, put your money where you mouth is and no longer buy or sell CGC graded books, and no longer come on their boards. Otherwise, you are simply a hypocrite.

 

Structural manipulation of grades...........

 

Ok, this is now the post of the day.

 

I agree Dale and maybe when the bubble does burst all the nay-sayers will disappear and the true hobbyists will remain to enjoy whats left. Manipulated, restored, pressed or not.

 

Wow. I'm now a hypocrite.....and far removed from the "true hobbyists"?

 

 

Talk about bizarro world.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you read the post, I did not call you in particular a hypocrite. I don't know what you buy, or if you submit books. I called anyone who is adamantly against pressed books being placed, in blue labels, yet still continues to support that company anyway a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about it, take a stand. You can't have it both ways. Either they are right or they are wrong.

[Dale Roberts]

It is a hobby when it is all about you and the book. IF it is simply a hobby, then you should keep your books raw. No one gets books graded for any other reason than to ascertain an approximate value of the book. Period. Whether it is to see the exact grade assigned or to determine if the book has been restored, it all has to do with value.

 

When you involve a 3rd party grader, whose process not only seals the book where you can no longer read it, but also in effect alters the value of your book, I don't see that it is a hobby so much as a business venture or investment.

[fantastic_four]

If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC.

 

CGC's stance is tempered by the fact that many, if not most, forms of pressing are undetectable. If memory serves, Borock has publicly said in these forums that he doesn't believe pressing is restoration. However, I suspect that view is tempered by the reality that they you just can't detect it well, and if they define pressing as restoration, then it shakes confidence in the public's perception of their restoration detection ability. I could easily be wrong and their reason they think pressing isn't restoration is entirely different.

 

But even if they start defining pressing as restoration...how does that change anything? They still won't be able to find most of it. I don't see how you can blame them for pressing being difficult and potentially impossible to detect.

[Dick Pontoon]

 

If the buble bursts, everyone will take a bath and there won't be anyone to point fingers too.

 

No more stinky BO fanboys crowding the aisles at show?

[nik]

 

If the buble bursts, everyone will take a bath and there won't be anyone to point fingers too.

 

No more stinky BO fanboys crowding the aisles at show?

 

[DrWatson]

 

If the buble bursts, everyone will take a bath and there won't be anyone to point fingers too.

 

No more stinky BO fanboys crowding the aisles at show?

No, they will still be around. They don't typically give a rip as to highest graded or CGC. They are probably the backbone of the hobby.

[lookwhoitis]

This discussion is making my head hurt... I'm going to go read some comics to make it feel better.

[pickycollector]

Patrick,

 

Show me a hobby where money is involved (especially big money) where it truly remains just a hobby.

 

Joey,

 

I do have a lot of respect for you as you disclose the fact as a seller when books have been pressed and you always have been (and still are) a valuable customer and friend, but I still disagree with you about pressing.

 

Ask yourself this question : if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

The pressing thing would not even exist if CGC were able to detect it. That is one flaw from CGC that people actually benefit from. Like slight trimming was a few years ago.

 

As a seller, I am still tortured about this. Should I or should I not play this flaw ? My collector heart says no, never alter a book, but my investor mind says yes, make as much money as possible. Until today, the first always has been the strongest and did win. Now frankly, reading all those posts, I don't know anymore.... Am I becoming Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde ?

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

Yes I would like to know if a comic has been pressed or not because we don't know the long term effects pressing has on comics.

 

You do realise a book is pressed and heated when it is printed. IIRC I still see some books for the 1930's in high grade slabs. Did not appear to have too negative of an effect on those books.

 

Books are also trimmed when they are printed.

 

Exactly....

 

OK, gloves off

 

This pressing thing is making me sick.....

 

Yes, I would like to know if a book has been pressed and as a collector, I would NEVER want to buy a book that has been pressed.

 

Make me think of the early ages of restoration and trimming, when a lot of people were restoring or trimming books because most people could not detect it. How many great books have been wasted because of that...

 

I remember many years ago that restoration was a big thing. Sending books to Susan Cicconi or Mark Wilson was supposed to increase value. Trimming books slightly was also supposed to be impossible to detect. I never did believe it and I am glad today I never did. For example, I knew Jason Ewert for years, bought a few books from him BEFORE he started that trimming thing but I did stop buying from him when he tried to sell me a book that I did suspect was trimmed and he didn't tell me. Trimming obviously did work well for him for a while and the honest seller he was at the beginning became the greedy and dishonest seller all people will now remember. This is sad. And the only reason it did work well is that CGC could not detect it....until they finally could and it was over.

 

Greed did push people to alter comic books and restore and/or trim them. I really think the same thing is happening again with pressing.

 

Yes, pressing, trimming, inking, etc. is all normal process WHEN the book is printed. Doing it after though alter the original condition of the book. Call it restoration, preservation, whatever, your book is no longer in its original condition.

 

I like to say that I do own books that are in their original 9.4-9.6 condition.

 

Therefore, my humble advise to any seller whom press books would be, AT THE VERY LEAST, disclose the fact when you are selling such a book.

 

I can understand that many sellers want to maximize their profit by pressing the books they have for sale. I disagree, but I understand. But I will NEVER buy from a seller whom does not disclose the fact that the book has been pressed, especially if he did it himself.

 

For those sellers whom press books AND disclose the fact, although I disagree, you have my respect.

 

Now, although, as a collector, I know I will never want to own a pressed book in my collection, as a seller, I am really tormented here.

 

I've sold raw 8.5 books that became CGC 9.6 after being pressed. Also, knowing that a book I did own for years sold for $24K after being pressed make me question myself : why should I not become a greedy seller as well ? I have the books for that. We all want to make money. I do too.

 

The only answer I found: I just can't and I don't know why...

 

Am I stupid for not pressing my books ? Maybe I am. Maybe not. Future will tell.

 

But knowing that other people are doing it really REALLY hurts. $24K is a lot of money !!

 

If you can't beat it, join it, they say.

 

I am still pondering this...

 

 

 

Here is something else to ponder......

 

The book raw in the condition you owned(FF #112) was worth somewhere around $125.00. However, you bought into what CGC was selling when you got the book slabbed. Whether you trusted their opinion on grading, or their reassurance that the book was not restored, you valued their opinion enough to get the book graded. I don't really know what your motivation was, but I have to believe that at least some of your interest was turning a 125.00 book into a book with higher value. Basically turning the $125 book into a $1000.00 book. What was your motivation here? This is the question to ask yourself....was it financially motivated or was it for CGC's reassurance of NO restoration.

 

I have no problem either way. You are just as entitled to make money off comics as anyone else. However, if you valued CGCs opinion enough to get the book graded, then you should also value their opinion on pressing. CGCs judgment is that pressing is NOT restoration. Either you trust them or you don't. You can't have it both ways. The number on the slab and the blue label are equal parts of what they are selling.

 

The book was purchased by me for one reason. To make money on. I thought the book had a solid shot as a straight 9.6 candidate on resub, without pressing, making it in effect a $2500.00 - 3000.00 book. However, there is considerable risk in that judgment. Several others(including several board members) looked at the book and thought there was no hope of any upgrade. That is part of my job. To be able to find undervalued books (either due to scarcity, supply and demand, grading or other) and distinguish whether or not something is worth purchasing. Sometimes I am right, sometimes I am wrong, but I thought the book was worth taking the chance on.

 

Doug came to my table and saw the book behind the table. He asked and I told him I was not really interested in selling the book right now, as I was going to resub it. He was willing to purchase the book at the 9.6 price, even though it was in a 9.4 holder. We both agreed that the book could probably benefit from pressing, as there was a tiny non color breaking thumb print on the right edge. We haggled for awhile and finally came to a price on the book which was satisfactory to both of us, which ended up being around the 9.6 price. (Doug also bought probably another 25 slabs from me, which I have no doubt he was intending to press and resub, so I am not exactly sure what the exact price on this particular book was).

 

I had no idea that the book would fetch 24K. Who did? I can't imagine anyone would have predicted that. I thought 10K was a realistic price for the book (uhh, did I really just type that? I guess reality has been altered a bit in the current market).

 

Doug made the same judgments that I did, only he did it better than I did. Hey, I left alot of money on the table too. About 21K. And you know what, I am happy for him. Because for every book that things work out well on, there are 5 books that don't, especially when you are paying the type of prices that he paid. He has built his business up and invested tons of time and money on it. He should reap the benefits from it.

 

Back some 16 years ago, I bought a nice JIM #1 for about $125.00 from a local comic store. The book appeared to be underpriced to me, and I knew it was a tough book, but I didn't really know how tough. I flipped the book to a dealer for $250.00. He, in turn, sold the book to Harley for $750.00 and where it went from there, I don't know. I suspect it went for at least $1000.00 though. But that is part of the game.

 

It is unfortunate that you feel like you are out all that money.

 

You did not understand my point.

 

I have nothing against doing some money. Yes, indeed, I love buying raw books and send some of them to CGC for grade certification. I also love buying CGC books that I think were undergraded and crack them for either: 1) add them raw in my collection or 2) re-submit them and get a higher grade for an eventual re-sale with profit (it did happen more than once).

 

I sold a lot of books to Harley as well, which he did resell for much higher. I also did buy a lot from him throughout the last 20 years or so and some of these books have increased considerably in value today.

 

I also have sold raw books that I may have slightly undergraded and the buyer got a higher CGC grade for it. I am then happy for the buyer and for me, as chances are he will be a repeat buyer. It is very hard to predict the CGC grade as it can goes either way. Submitting books to CGC is often a gamble. Not submitting can also be a gamble. In both, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. This is part of the game indeed. I totally agree with that.

 

HOWEVER, I disagree with pressing a book in order to get a higher grade nor did I agree many years ago with trimming a book. Weeks ago, I did call CGC and asked them why pressing is not considered as restoration. The answer was that since they cannot detect it, it cannot be considered as restoration. Then I asked why did they give so many blue labels to books that have been slightly trimmed by seller "ejaenter" at that time ? Their answer then was very evasive...

 

So if CGC was unable to detect trimming at that time, does it mean that the ejaenter books can be considered as "unrestored" ? that their blue label was deserved ?

 

Ask yourself this question : if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

I know I would not.

 

My philosophy is simple : I do NOT alter the condition of a book in any form. This means no trimming, no color touch-up, no pressing, NOTHING !!!

 

It's not the fact that the FF 112 CGC 9.8 sold for $24K that really bothers me. I did own that book for years, and although i think it was worthy of 9.6, NO WAY it could be a 9.8 in its original condition. What does bother me is that it was a former CGC 9.4 transformed by pressing into a CGC 9.8. Like it did bother me that a book I sold raw as an 8.5 has been pressed and received a 9.6 label.

 

When you can transform 8.5 raw books into CGC 9.6 books, especially with the awesome prices 9.6/9.8 sell for today, then I begin to think that this hobby is no longer a hobby...

 

I would bet that you do. Do you store your books in archival materials? Why? To slow down the natural process of deterioration of books from the chemical reaction between the paper, the paints, the air, and whatever material it would otherwise be touching. If you spill something on a comic, would you quickly wipe it dry to limit the damage? If you had a stack of books in your house and left the books out for an extended period of time, and you come home to find a thick layer of dust on the books, would you wipe it clean? If you are reading a comic, and lay it down on the table to go get a drink, come back and discover the corner was turned under, would you leave it, or would you try to flatten the corner back out? Ever bought a collection of books with warping due to bad storage and either put the comic under a heavy book, or packed the book at the bottom of a stack, or in a bag and board to help flatten it out?

 

Pressing is different than trimming, color touch, cleaning or any form of restoration. Trimming actively alters the amount of material from the original book. All other forms of restoration ADD material to the book.

 

Pressing does neither of these. The mass and material of the book remains unchanged. It simply flattens a book. Nothing more, nothing less. The book is NOT disassembled, nothing about the book is altered, other than simply becoming flatter.

 

 

 

[Mr.Diggler]

Yes I would like to know if a comic has been pressed or not because we don't know the long term effects pressing has on comics.

 

You do realise a book is pressed and heated when it is printed. IIRC I still see some books for the 1930's in high grade slabs. Did not appear to have too negative of an effect on those books.

 

Books are also trimmed when they are printed.

 

Exactly....

 

Pressing is different than trimming, color touch, cleaning or any form of restoration. Trimming actively alters the amount of material from the original book. All other forms of restoration ADD material to the book.

 

Pressing does neither of these. The mass and material of the book remains unchanged. It simply flattens a book. Nothing more, nothing less. The book is NOT disassembled, nothing about the book is altered, other than simply becoming flatter.

 

.......and being restored closer to it's former glory.

[Dale Roberts]

OK, that is enough (actually too much) time spent on another pressing debate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect everyone's right to feel as they do. I do have books pressed, but will be happy to disclose any knowledge I have about a specific book if anyone ever has a question.

 

It is not a simple issue, and clearly, there are no easy answers.

 

Good luck to everyone and no hard feelings.