POLL: Do you care if a comic has been pressed?

[pickycollector]

I would bet that you do. Do you store your books in archival materials? Why? To slow down the natural process of deterioration of books from the chemical reaction between the paper, the paints, the air, and whatever material it would otherwise be touching. If you spill something on a comic, would you quickly wipe it dry to limit the damage? If you had a stack of books in your house and left the books out for an extended period of time, and you come home to find a thick layer of dust on the books, would you wipe it clean? If you are reading a comic, and lay it down on the table to go get a drink, come back and discover the corner was turned under, would you leave it, or would you try to flatten the corner back out? Ever bought a collection of books with warping due to bad storage and either put the comic under a heavy book, or packed the book at the bottom of a stack, or in a bag and board to help flatten it out?

 

Pressing is different than trimming, color touch, cleaning or any form of restoration. Trimming actively alters the amount of material from the original book. All other forms of restoration ADD material to the book.

 

Pressing does neither of these. The mass and material of the book remains unchanged. It simply flattens a book. Nothing more, nothing less. The book is NOT disassembled, nothing about the book is altered, other than simply becoming flatter.

 

 

 

Keeping a book safe and altering it are two TOTALLY different things. Yes, the pressing process is far more subtle, but it DOES ALTER the condition while storing only helps to keep a book in the SAME condition.

 

Ask yourself only these two questions :

 

1) if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

2) if CGC could detect pressing, i.e. would disclose the fact in either the label's color or in the label notes, would you still press raw books in order to send them to CGC ? Would a FF 112 "CGC pressed 9.8" still sell for $24K ?

 

[joeypost]

Patrick,

 

Show me a hobby where money is involved (especially big money) where it truly remains just a hobby.

 

Joey,

 

I do have a lot of respect for you as you disclose the fact as a seller when books have been pressed and you always have been (and still are) a valuable customer and friend, but I still disagree with you about pressing.

 

Ask yourself this question : if CGC could still not detect trimming, i.e. would not consider trimming as restoration, would you trim raw books in order to send them to CGC and get a blue label ?

 

The pressing thing would not even exist if CGC were able to detect it. That is one flaw from CGC that people actually benefit from. Like slight trimming was a few years ago.

 

As a seller, I am still tortured about this. Should I or should I not play this flaw ? My collector heart says no, never alter a book, but my investor mind says yes, make as much money as possible. Until today, the first always has been the strongest and did win. Now frankly, reading all those posts, I don't know anymore.... Am I becoming Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde ?

 

 

In all honesty Patrick I have thought about that very hard and my answer would be no. I would not trim books.

 

Here is my logic on it.

 

If I place a book in a stack of other comics, and it is properly protected the book will improve due to the proper storgae conditions. If it had ripples or and waviness to it time and temperature would improve that naturally. The opposite is true that improper storage can ruin a book.

 

If you stacked a book with frayed edges no amount of pressure or temperature or time will make that go away. A person would have to remove the damage to make it look better. Same with color touch. Something needs to be added to make the book look better.

 

Pressing does add something to the book. But it is something that could happen naturally with enough time and temperature/moisture. I believe the Pacific Coast books were so pristine because they were stacked in a way that kept the books flat and improved their condition naturally.

 

 

 

 

[Arcade]

OK, that is enough (actually too much) time spent on another pressing debate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect everyone's right to feel as they do. I do have books pressed, but will be happy to disclose any knowledge I have about a specific book if anyone ever has a question.

 

It is not a simple issue, and clearly, there are no easy answers.

 

Good luck to everyone and no hard feelings.

 

Pretty easy answer for me. And it is "nope, I could care less."

Can't believe this thread is 23 pages about something so crazy.

[mackenzie999]

I no longer seek HG copies of books because the SP can no longer be determined.

 

Do you get less enjoyment from collecting now because of this, or have you got used to it? Conversely, how many of you hardcore HG collectors began collecting with lower standards of acceptible grades?

[nik]

[KingOfRulers]

Can't you post Calvin & Hobbes instead?

[rob_allan]

Can't you post Calvin & Hobbes instead?

 

That one's currently being pressed so it can fit properly in the scanner bed.

 

-Rob-

[Paratrooper]

I'm going to bump this damn thread everyday until the mods lock it.

[nik]

[rob_allan]

I'm going to bump this damn thread everyday until the mods lock it.

 

If someone bumps it from the other side, maybe it can be pressed.

 

-Rob-

[Paratrooper]

I'm going to bump this damn thread everyday until the mods lock it.

 

If someone bumps it from the other side, maybe it can be pressed.

 

-Rob-

 

maybe

 

-Vaughn-

[dover]

yes.

[Paratrooper]

This penguin once thought pressing was bad, now he figures out that the issue wasn't a big deal.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I no longer seek HG copies of books because the SP can no longer be determined.

 

Do you get less enjoyment from collecting now because of this, or have you got used to it? Conversely, how many of you hardcore HG collectors began collecting with lower standards of acceptible grades?

 

To be completely honest....the more I know about the workings of this 'hobby'...the less I enjoy it.

 

When I 1st discovered CGC, I was very excited about acquiring uber-HG copies of my childhood faves. I'm a BA guy, so I wasn't interested in anything less than NM+ 9.6 copies. There were a few faves that I wanted in NM/MT 9.8.

 

Basically....I wanted pristine newsstand fresh copies.

 

I attached value to these HG gems because I believed that these books were PRESERVED in that condition. As time went on, I discovered that many of these books weren't preserved in pristine NM/MT condition at all. These books had been structurally manipulated to APPEAR that way.

 

On top of that, I discovered that books could be damaged while already encapsulated (SCS).

 

So...not only are the books I desire not what they seem.....I run the risk of buying a 9.8 slab with a NM- book inside.

 

It goes on & on, but basically I lost faith in the CGC product.

 

Ignorance was bliss......but those days are now long gone.

[underthebigw]

If you read the post, I did not call you in particular a hypocrite. I don't know what you buy, or if you submit books. I called anyone who is adamantly against pressed books being placed, in blue labels, yet still continues to support that company anyway a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about it, take a stand. You can't have it both ways. Either they are right or they are wrong.

 

While I don't totally agree with Dale's stance on pressing (I don't think it's accepted, so much as most collectors have no freakin' clue what's going on), I have to wholeheartedly agree with this comment. I am at the point that I assume most slabbed books have been pressed. If I buy a slab, I'm saying to myself I don't care--the book is too sweet to pass on, or I trust who is selling to me to be honest about what they know when I ask. This is the main reason I buy the bulk of my books raw. Why pay a premium for something that has a good change of being "manufactured".

[gaz973]

I'm going to bump this damn thread everyday until the mods lock it.

 

[whisp]

I no longer seek HG copies of books because the SP can no longer be determined.

 

Do you get less enjoyment from collecting now because of this, or have you got used to it? Conversely, how many of you hardcore HG collectors began collecting with lower standards of acceptible grades?

 

To be completely honest....the more I know about the workings of this 'hobby'...the less I enjoy it.

 

When I 1st discovered CGC, I was very excited about acquiring uber-HG copies of my childhood faves. I'm a BA guy, so I wasn't interested in anything less than NM+ 9.6 copies. There were a few faves that I wanted in NM/MT 9.8.

 

Basically....I wanted pristine newsstand fresh copies.

 

I attached value to these HG gems because I believed that these books were PRESERVED in that condition. As time went on, I discovered that many of these books weren't preserved in pristine NM/MT condition at all. These books had been structurally manipulated to APPEAR that way.

 

On top of that, I discovered that books could be damaged while already encapsulated (SCS).

 

So...not only are the books I desire not what they seem.....I run the risk of buying a 9.8 slab with a NM- book inside.

 

It goes on & on, but basically I lost faith in the CGC product.

 

Ignorance was bliss......but those days are now long gone.

 

I just got a book a few weeks ago with SCS. Poor book!

[BRB-migration]

If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC.

 

CGC's stance is tempered by the fact that many, if not most, forms of pressing are undetectable. If memory serves, Borock has publicly said in these forums that he doesn't believe pressing is restoration. However, I suspect that view is tempered by the reality that they you just can't detect it well, and if they define pressing as restoration, then it shakes confidence in the public's perception of their restoration detection ability. I could easily be wrong and their reason they think pressing isn't restoration is entirely different.

 

But even if they start defining pressing as restoration...how does that change anything? They still won't be able to find most of it. I don't see how you can blame them for pressing being difficult and potentially impossible to detect.

 

If you want to place specific blame, I'd point to Borock. His greed knows no bounds.

 

""Q: What is your personal opinion about pressing a comic book prior to grading submittal?

 

Steve Borock: Who cares? Really, when you get down to it, dealers and smart hobbyists have been doing it for years and years. So the Certified Collectible's Group helps let the cat out of the bag, wants to keep Friesen under their umbrella because they feel his company would be a good fit, and the biggest complainers are the guys who don't want the collectors to have a level playing field. Taking a bend or fold that does not break color out of a comic book is not a bad thing. It is not like you are adding glue and/or color touch, using something artificial, to bring paper closer back to LOOK like it's original state. You ARE bringing it back closer to its original state. I and many of the top collector's and dealers have never seen a problem with this"

 

 

[Mr.Diggler]

If you want to place blame anywhere, place it at the doorstep of CGC.

 

CGC's stance is tempered by the fact that many, if not most, forms of pressing are undetectable. If memory serves, Borock has publicly said in these forums that he doesn't believe pressing is restoration. However, I suspect that view is tempered by the reality that they you just can't detect it well, and if they define pressing as restoration, then it shakes confidence in the public's perception of their restoration detection ability. I could easily be wrong and their reason they think pressing isn't restoration is entirely different.

 

But even if they start defining pressing as restoration...how does that change anything? They still won't be able to find most of it. I don't see how you can blame them for pressing being difficult and potentially impossible to detect.

 

If you want to place specific blame, I'd point to Borock. His greed knows no bounds.

 

""Q: What is your personal opinion about pressing a comic book prior to grading submittal?

 

Steve Borock: Who cares? Really, when you get down to it, dealers and smart hobbyists have been doing it for years and years. So the Certified Collectible's Group helps let the cat out of the bag, wants to keep Friesen under their umbrella because they feel his company would be a good fit, and the biggest complainers are the guys who don't want the collectors to have a level playing field. Taking a bend or fold that does not break color out of a comic book is not a bad thing. It is not like you are adding glue and/or color touch, using something artificial, to bring paper closer back to LOOK like it's original state. You ARE bringing it back closer to its original state. I and many of the top collector's and dealers have never seen a problem with this"

 

lots of coin to be made. look the other way.

[arexcrooke]

This is a nuts idea but have you ever thought that he really thinks that?

It really isnt a stretch to think that since nothing is added, taken away, or otherwise changed, it isnt an issue :shrug: