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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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Started by alwaysbronze,

36,203 posts in this topic

Green

Green

Posted
Posted

There is no "majority vote" to put someone on the Probation List.

 

If im not mistaken, this hs happened before. Im not sure who, maybe someone else does.
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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

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Speedy-D

Speedy-D

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

I don't know what the technical requirements are, but he's shown a pattern of dishonesty, disrespect, and verbal violence. I hate to think he can just start up selling again whenever he wants.

 

Actually, it bugs me that he's even back at all, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

I don't know what the technical requirements are, but he's shown a pattern of dishonesty, disrespect, and verbal violence. I hate to think he can just start up selling again whenever he wants.

 

Actually, it bugs me that he's even back at all, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

 

If you read the first page of the probation thread, it will explain the criteria to you. Probation wasn't meant to cover all offenses here on the boards, it was made to cover the most egregious - non-payment, non-delivery - there are lots of other gray areas.

 

My understanding of the case at hand is that you have a partial payment, back out and refund, and a lame excuse...., at least that's what many here on the boards think.

 

Think of it as grand theft vs. petty theft, or something else. This current case just doesn't meet the stated criteria or threshold for inclusion on the probation thread.

 

Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

I don't know what the technical requirements are, but he's shown a pattern of dishonesty, disrespect, and verbal violence. I hate to think he can just start up selling again whenever he wants.

 

Actually, it bugs me that he's even back at all, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

 

If you read the first page of the probation thread, it will explain the criteria to you. Probation wasn't meant to cover all offenses here on the boards, it was made to cover the most egregious - non-payment, non-delivery - there are lots of other gray areas.

 

My understanding of the case at hand is that you have a partial payment, back out and refund, and a lame excuse...., at least that's what many here on the boards think.

 

Think of it as grand theft vs. petty theft, or something else. This current case just doesn't meet the stated criteria or threshold for inclusion on the probation thread.

 

Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

 

You're talking about Yannis - the guy who received a partial payment for a book, then turned around & sold it somebody else.

 

I'm talking about Dr. Frankenstein/Muscleshark who has been caught doctoring scans to make books look better, cracking books & then re-selling them at a higher grade (without disclosing that they were previously slabbed), and has a pattern of threats of both physical violence & litigation which, so far, has resulted in him receiving two strikes from the mods (one as Muscleshark, one as Dr. Frankenstein).

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

I don't know what the technical requirements are, but he's shown a pattern of dishonesty, disrespect, and verbal violence. I hate to think he can just start up selling again whenever he wants.

 

Actually, it bugs me that he's even back at all, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

 

If you read the first page of the probation thread, it will explain the criteria to you. Probation wasn't meant to cover all offenses here on the boards, it was made to cover the most egregious - non-payment, non-delivery - there are lots of other gray areas.

 

My understanding of the case at hand is that you have a partial payment, back out and refund, and a lame excuse...., at least that's what many here on the boards think.

 

Think of it as grand theft vs. petty theft, or something else. This current case just doesn't meet the stated criteria or threshold for inclusion on the probation thread.

 

Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

 

You're talking about Yannis - the guy who received a partial payment for a book, then turned around & sold it somebody else.

 

I'm talking about Dr. Frankenstein/Muscleshark who has been caught doctoring scans to make books look better, cracking books & then re-selling them at a higher grade (without disclosing that they were previously slabbed), and has a pattern of threats of both physical violence & litigation which, so far, has resulted in him receiving two strikes from the mods (one as Muscleshark, one as Dr. Frankenstein).

 

You are correct - I am wrong and I'm mixing up the two. Anyhoo....., read the criteria for the probation thread - non-payment, non-delivery. The mods do not police the sales area. I don't think this one is up to Divad and the probation thread. It is up to the Mods and their strikes and bans method - they only deal with the threats of physical violence in the offenses you list. Obviously, they believe these offenses are not serious enought for an outright ban. But...., give Dr. Frankenstein/Muscleshark time...., maybe he'll come up with strike three.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

David is not "in charge" of the probation thread, and he'll even tell you that himself. He maintains the list as a courtesy, but it's always up to the group. We just need a single point of contact administering this list or anything goes.

 

Muscleshark did something that is totally against the expected principles of this forum - compromising the safe selling/buying atmosphere by misrepresenting a book's history. It's definitely a tough scenario as he can say he felt CGC undergraded the book by two grades. By cleaning up the back cover, he may even state he solidified the "true" grade of the book as a 9.2 over its original CGC 8.5 grade. But it also gives a feeling of deception if you think through what was not stated in his sales thread.

 

He did nothing wrong to me in the past, so I have no history with the guy. But I was on the night he lost it as a new member, and started threatening forumites' mothers and demanding their phone number so he could tell them off. A few folks egged him on at first, questioning his credentials, but his response was quite extreme.

 

I'm surprised a few that were directly impacted are not being more aggressive about adding him immediately to the probation list.

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

David is not "in charge" of the probation thread, and he'll even tell you that himself. He maintains the list as a courtesy, but it's always up to the group. We just need a single point of contact administering this list or anything goes.

 

Muscleshark did something that is totally against the expected principles of this forum - compromising the safe selling/buying atmosphere by misrepresenting a book's history. It's definitely a tough scenario as he can say he felt CGC undergraded the book by two grades. By cleaning up the back cover, he may even state he solidified the "true" grade of the book as a 9.2 over its original CGC 8.5 grade. But it also gives a feeling of deception if you think through what was not stated in his sales thread.

 

He did nothing wrong to me in the past, so I have no history with the guy. But I was on the night he lost it as a new member, and started threatening forumites' mothers and demanding their phone number so he could tell them off. A few folks egged him on at first, questioning his credentials, but his response was quite extreme.

 

I'm surprised a few that were directly impacted are not being more aggressive about adding him immediately to the probation list.

 

Geez - You need to take the full quote in context. OK - Divad created the probation thread, so might have a better idea of what constitutes the original intent for probational offenses - this incident of alleged misrepresentation / book-manipulation, does not meet the criteria.

 

You have several things going on - the strike-able/ban-able behavior of threats, and the book manipulation or whatever part, which could lead to probation. This misrepresentation / book-manipulation behavior falls in the realm of ethics, and while some may find it egregious, others may not.

 

Personally, I don't care for it, and understand the outcry. But I can see many parallels to other types of widely accepted behaviors here on the boards.

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Bosco685

Bosco685

Posted
Posted
Geez - You need to take the full quote in context. OK - Divad created the probation thread, so might have a better idea of what constitutes the original intent for probational offenses - this incident of alleged misrepresentation / book-manipulation, does not meet the criteria.

:foryou:

 

Just clarifying - no offense meant.

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Geez - You need to take the full quote in context. OK - Divad created the probation thread, so might have a better idea of what constitutes the original intent for probational offenses - this incident of alleged misrepresentation / book-manipulation, does not meet the criteria.

:foryou:

 

Just clarifying - no offense meant.

 

:blush: Just trying to help the understanding as to why the "wheels of justice" might move slower than some would choose. Ethics vs rules violations - my understanding was that CGC wanted to stay out of policing the sales area for buyer/seller disputes, and that's why Divad created the probation thread.

 

The intent and scope of the probation thread appears to be stated on the first page of that thread, but it may have changed over time - I'm not going to read the whole thing to figure that out - but I'm sure Divad could give a quick summary.

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divad

divad

Posted
Posted
Looks like Dr. Frankenstein aka muscleshark is back & posting again ... isn't it about time he gets added to the Hall of Shame?

Why not, eh?

I don't think it meets the criteria of non-payment or non-delivery, which is what Divad's guidelines are. It was a 'fringe' thing of partial payment and a back out.

I don't know what the technical requirements are, but he's shown a pattern of dishonesty, disrespect, and verbal violence. I hate to think he can just start up selling again whenever he wants.

 

Actually, it bugs me that he's even back at all, but I guess there's nothing we can do about that.

 

If you read the first page of the probation thread, it will explain the criteria to you. Probation wasn't meant to cover all offenses here on the boards, it was made to cover the most egregious - non-payment, non-delivery - there are lots of other gray areas.

 

My understanding of the case at hand is that you have a partial payment, back out and refund, and a lame excuse...., at least that's what many here on the boards think.

 

Think of it as grand theft vs. petty theft, or something else. This current case just doesn't meet the stated criteria or threshold for inclusion on the probation thread.

 

Divad is the guy in charge of the probation thread - you could always PM him and get his thoughts on the issue.

 

You're talking about Yannis - the guy who received a partial payment for a book, then turned around & sold it somebody else.

 

I'm talking about Dr. Frankenstein/Muscleshark who has been caught doctoring scans to make books look better, cracking books & then re-selling them at a higher grade (without disclosing that they were previously slabbed), and has a pattern of threats of both physical violence & litigation which, so far, has resulted in him receiving two strikes from the mods (one as Muscleshark, one as Dr. Frankenstein).

 

You are correct - I am wrong and I'm mixing up the two. Anyhoo....., read the criteria for the probation thread - non-payment, non-delivery. The mods do not police the sales area. I don't think this one is up to Divad and the probation thread. It is up to the Mods and their strikes and bans method - they only deal with the threats of physical violence in the offenses you list. Obviously, they believe these offenses are not serious enought for an outright ban. But...., give Dr. Frankenstein/Muscleshark time...., maybe he'll come up with strike three.

 

Thanks for the discourse guys, it all helps the community and help makes this list serve it's intended purpose. From what I've read so far, Yannis has not been nominated to the list by the offendee, and though his actions have been criticized, the injured party needs to be involved.

 

Dr. Frankie's conduct on the other hand has been reprehensible, and deserving of a place in the Hall of Shame. We have in the past allowed such "hallowed" status to be confirmed by majority vote, but it is the actions themselves which warrant inclusion. That said, please indicate your preference below:

 

 

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
Wow! It's going to be a tight race.

 

:eyeroll:

 

 

It's gonna be a photo finish between "Put him in the Hall of Shame" and "Immolate him Immediately"

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