PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 20 20

[MrBedrock]

 

Apparently since my comments make no sense to you I have to repeat myself.

 

You knew the book used to be a 9.0 and by your own admission you lost interest in purchasing. This means you are no longer a prospective buyer.

 

You then commented with the ulterior motive, again by your own admission, to inform prospective buyers.

 

Making sense now?

 

So you took it upon yourself to decide what is universally relevant to prospective buyers and then inappropriately use someone's sales thread as a platform to peddle your beliefs.

This cracks me up.

Passing along info about some old comics being reslabbed is now equated to spouting biased beliefs. What's interesting is the idea that, just because someone is not interested in buying they should just keep their mouth shut. Sounds like you harbor some biased beliefs against the buyers of the world.

 

Buyers vs. Sellers - The Next Holy War!

 

It's biased in that not everyone cares to know.

 

The idea that if someone is not interested they should keep their mouth shut is the essence of the debate over thread krapping. There is nothing against starting another thread or bringing the discussion here. Maybe even updating the rules. Unless it is a universally accepted belief then where do we draw the line? I believe this is how the discussion started.

See, I hold an entirely different view. I post sales threads in the forum. Heck, I sell comics for a living. I could give a mess about thread krapping. In fact I endorse it in every one of my sales threads. If I post a sales thread I expect the books contained in it to be inspected, dissected, discussed, considered, and commented on. I love the positive comments ("What a great book!", "I'd buy it if I had the money!", "Great Price, Great Condition!"). I should also consider the negative comments. As a seller I should create a listing that is complete and above reproach. So if there is a negative comment (or thread krap) that is something I should be able to deal with with thick skin, an open mind, and a reasonable response. "You are thread-krapping, you big meanie" is not a reasonable response and does nothing to address the reason for the negative comment. Any seller listing here should understand that there are folks on the CGC boards who are very thorough in their understanding of the market and all the variables that go into buying and selling slabbed comics. If anyone is listing comics that have been upgraded here on these boards in these sales forums, ground zero for disclosure, then he should not be surprised when a boardie comes along and questions the listing. He should EXPECT it. You don't jump in a pool and get surprised when you get wet. Welcome the "thread-krap", address it, and move along.

[namisgr]

What Bob did was wrong, it was a anti presser with an agenda

 

Not sure where pressing enters into the discussion.

 

For the record, I never speculated in the sales thread that the comic in question had been pressed. Indeed, in prior dealings with the seller, I have asked him via private message whether he presses his resubmissions, and he replied that he does not. I have no reason to doubt this, and believe that his offerings are straight resubmissions. I just wish they came with all the information about the offerings that prospective buyers may want to know, such as whether the comic was graded two units lower by CGC previously, or the comic came from a pedigree collection but the provenance has been lost on the resubmission.

 

There goes your 'agenda' argument.

[N/A]

So why the respect in asking about pressing but no such respect about the resub? And what does CGC grading a book 9.0 and then 9.4 have to do with anything? Do you split the difference and call it a 9.2?

[namisgr]

So why the respect in asking about pressing but no such respect about the resub? And what does CGC grading a book 9.0 and then 9.4 have to do with anything? Do you split the difference and call it a 9.2?

 

Perhaps you can, but I'm unable to appreciate fully the preservation and qualities of a slabbed (or unslabbed) comic just by viewing scans of it. For me, having access to all of the CGC grading information about a comic they've held in their hands and professionally judged on two separate occasions is far more informative than just their one-time opinion.

 

If you've resubmitted comics for grading and encapsulation, you can further appreciate the value of dual opinions. Having once had a straight resubmission change assigned grade from 9.0 to 9.4, and having seen the comic firsthand, I had a strong view that neither grade did the comic justice.

[N/A]

Doesn't explain why you didn't PM for the information like you did for the pressing info.

[namisgr]

Doesn't explain why you didn't PM for the information like you did for the pressing info.

 

As I responded already to Snake earlier, I didn't need any information - I knew that the comic in question, like most others offered for sale by this particular seller in general and in this sales thread in particular, had been graded before and been assigned a lower grade on the prior occasion.

 

I'd like to see a higher level of integrity in our marketplace on the Boards.

[N/A]

Then easy. Bring the concern here and perhaps it can be implemented in the sales forum or probation area. Choosing to set someone straight as you see it in someone's sales thread is inappropriate.

[Pitboss]

Out of curiosity,who owned the book before this seller?

 

[Foolkiller]

Doesn't explain why you didn't PM for the information like you did for the pressing info.

 

As I responded already to Snake earlier, I didn't need any information - I knew that the comic in question, like most others offered for sale by this particular seller in general and in this sales thread in particular, had been graded before and been assigned a lower grade on the prior occasion.

 

I'd like to see a higher level of integrity in our marketplace on the Boards.

 

I understand your point Bob, but to be fair, I really don't think that disclosing the pressing is mandatory in many people's eyes.

 

I don't take any real position on this, except to say that I think you certainly could have chosen a slightly softer approach and still informed the community. That and the fact that you could have expressed your opinion in a PM to the seller that you have concerns that non-disclosure is unfair to potential buyers.

 

With that said, I also don't think you did it for any other reason than what you earnestly believe is the right thing, not some attempt to sabotage a seller.

[namisgr]

Doesn't explain why you didn't PM for the information like you did for the pressing info.

 

As I responded already to Snake earlier, I didn't need any information - I knew that the comic in question, like most others offered for sale by this particular seller in general and in this sales thread in particular, had been graded before and been assigned a lower grade on the prior occasion.

 

I'd like to see a higher level of integrity in our marketplace on the Boards.

 

I understand your point Bob, but to be fair, I really don't think that disclosing the pressing is mandatory in many people's eyes.

 

I don't take any real position on this, except to say that I think you certainly could have chosen a slightly softer approach and still informed the community. That and the fact that you could have expressed your opinion in a PM to the seller that you have concerns that non-disclosure is unfair to potential buyers.

 

With that said, I also don't think you did it for any other reason than what you earnestly believe is the right thing, not some attempt to sabotage a seller.

 

I think you're late to the party and not in possession of all the info, Brian. Pressing isn't part of the discussion, and I believe the comics at issue weren't pressed. Running a marketplace with high integrity for a well informed customer base is the issue at hand as I see it.

 

Also, the seller has in the past received private messages from me and other board members as well requesting that resubmission be done with respect for maintaining pedigree provenance. They went unheeded.

[Green]

Doesn't explain why you didn't PM for the information like you did for the pressing info.

 

As I responded already to Snake earlier, I didn't need any information - I knew that the comic in question, like most others offered for sale by this particular seller in general and in this sales thread in particular, had been graded before and been assigned a lower grade on the prior occasion.

 

I'd like to see a higher level of integrity in our marketplace on the Boards.

 

I understand your point Bob, but to be fair, I really don't think that disclosing the pressing is mandatory in many people's eyes.

 

I don't take any real position on this, except to say that I think you certainly could have chosen a slightly softer approach and still informed the community. That and the fact that you could have expressed your opinion in a PM to the seller that you have concerns that non-disclosure is unfair to potential buyers.

 

With that said, I also don't think you did it for any other reason than what you earnestly believe is the right thing, not some attempt to sabotage a seller.

 

I think you're late to the party and not in possession of all the info, Brian. Pressing isn't part of the discussion, and I believe the comics at issue weren't pressed. Running a marketplace with high integrity for a well informed customer base is the issue at hand as I see it.

 

Also, the seller has in the past received private messages from me and other board members as well requesting that resubmission be done with respect for maintaining pedigree provenance. They went unheeded.

Bob i know exactly how you feel. Edited December 8, 2011 by Green

[HighRadArt]

Interesting that the seller hasn't responded to any of this. Besides, I thought this thread was for probation discussions?

[comicdonna]

Interesting that the seller hasn't responded to any of this. Besides, I thought this thread was for probation discussions?

He responded, just not here.

 

So can I start thread krapping like you other thread?!?! Great book as always Dan!

 

Thanks!

 

I dont mind the thread krapping so much, its the calling me "deceitful" that I dont like. And in my sales thread. If someone has a problem with me, shoot me a PM, or Flame me in the proper Forum. Ive done nothing but be honest with everyone Ive dealt with! My Kudo's reflect that! If I had a 9.0 come back an 8.0... I listed it as an 8.0, It doesnt matter what it WAS, it matters what it IS.

 

 

*Funny thing is... That Boardie has bought from me before. Would you buy from someone you thought was dishonest??

[namisgr]

Interesting that the seller hasn't responded to any of this. Besides, I thought this thread was for probation discussions?

He responded, just not here.

 

If I had a 9.0 come back an 8.0... I listed it as an 8.0, It doesnt matter what it WAS, it matters what it IS.

 

 

This quote gets right to the heart of the matter. It's the same comic (at least if it hasn't been pressed, which is true to the seller's claim) that's been graded twice. It is a 9.0 AND a 9.4. In other words, it IS exactly the same comic that it WAS. Problem is, the seller only chooses to disclose the higher graded circumstance to maximize the perceived value of the comic. Moreover, the seller recognizes that to disclose the past history with CGC could potentially devalue the offering in at least some customers' eyes, which accounts for the loss of provenance when the resubmissions from the seller are from pedigree collections.

 

The seller's mention that I bought from him in the past is irrelevant. Indeed, many collectors have unknowingly bought comics from Danny Dupcak without understanding the nature of his business practices - it doesn't change at all the nature of those practices.

 

I'm not comparing Spider Dan with the notorious Dupcak (just making a point), but I would like him to be more upfront with what he knows about the comics he offers for sale on the Boards, and to be more considerate of their place in the hobby when resubmitting pedigreed comics. Indeed, Spider Dan has some gorgeous comics, and I'd be happy to consider buying from him once again in the future.

[N/A]

In the end it's not your call or your place to call him out in his thread. You have your OPIION and it is not a universally accepted notion. It is what it is and not what it was. You want to know then ask and move on.

[namisgr]

You want to know then ask and move on.

 

Ask what, when you know already (but others don't) that the entire list of offerings has been graded before by CGC at lower grades?

[N/A]

You want to know then ask and move on.

 

Ask what, when you know already (but others don't) that the entire list of offerings has been graded before by CGC at lower grades?

 

Well apparently you ask nothing and just thread krap. You seem more annoyed by the lost pedigree. He is selling a CGC 9.4. It is what it is. Just because you decide part of its history is important doesn't give you the right to be the authority in his thread.

 

What else is important to you that we can expect you to krap in sales threads because you feel justified?

[Green]

You want to know then ask and move on.

 

Ask what, when you know already (but others don't) that the entire list of offerings has been graded before by CGC at lower grades?

 

Well apparently you ask nothing and just thread krap. You seem more annoyed by the lost pedigree. He is selling a CGC 9.4. It is what it is. Just because you decide part of its history is important doesn't give you the right to be the authority in his thread.

 

What else is important to you that we can expect you to krap in sales threads because you feel justified?

Im infuriated by this post to the point that i have to walk away for a bit.

 

[N/A]

I look forward to your return?

[8milemax]

I look forward to your return?

Bob just doesn't grasp what he did was wrong and it's pointless to try and explain to him why he was wrong. IMO its a anti presser trying to discredit a seller. It may of been a 9.0 but know its a 9.4 by cgc case closed