PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[JazzMan]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

[PovertyRow]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

 

I agree with #2 which is why I suggested if other people experienced the same thing (as implied in that thread) they should bring it up here.

 

[dem1138]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

 

I agree with #2 which is why I suggested if other people experienced the same thing (as implied in that thread) they should bring it up here.

 

The problem is that I have had others PM or email me and tell me that he has done the same thing to them but no one else has volunteered the info either because they don't care to or because they are not board members. So should someone be protected from the HOS list because others don't come forward? Or can the fact that so many people nominated him factor into the decision?

 

In the end, I'm not sure it matters because I think simply keeping him on The Probation List has been effective and should hopefully keep him away regardless.

[Park]

 

I do see a problem in that I think the boards are very susceptible to group think.

 

These boards would be a researcher's wet dream.

 

I fully support Crees, JMG or whatever his name is be put to a vote for the HOS. It would help if some others that had similar situations to DEM speak up but he sounds habitual.

 

I would also submit that Columbia Comics' seller be nominated for the PL. It is the same situation as JMG. Both situations are sellers trying to bilk some more money after an agreed upon deal.

[MediumLover]

Collusion is a word that comes to mind.

[PovertyRow]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

 

I agree with #2 which is why I suggested if other people experienced the same thing (as implied in that thread) they should bring it up here.

 

The problem is that I have had others PM or email me and tell me that he has done the same thing to them but no one else has volunteered the info either because they don't care to or because they are not board members. So should someone be protected from the HOS list because others don't come forward? Or can the fact that so many people nominated him factor into the decision?

 

In the end, I'm not sure it matters because I think simply keeping him on The Probation List has been effective and should hopefully keep him away regardless.

 

I only recall one person nominating him to the PL. Who else has nominated him here? One requirement for hos can be habitual or repeated offenses. He is on the PL, as you say., which seems to be working.

[PovertyRow]

 

I do see a problem in that I think the boards are very susceptible to group think.

 

These boards would be a researcher's wet dream.

 

I fully support Crees, JMG or whatever his name is be put to a vote for the HOS. It would help if some others that had similar situations to DEM speak up but he sounds habitual.

 

I would also submit that Columbia Comics' seller be nominated for the PL. It is the same situation as JMG. Both situations are sellers trying to bilk some more money after an agreed upon deal.

 

For HOS we really need more than something "sounds" like something. If we start doing that the PL List WILL start becoming a joke,. All we need are more people coming forward with their own experiences in order to support an HOS vote.

 

 

As far as Columbia Comics, it is up to him to decide on the PL thing. The whole thing went behind the scenes and there was no public record beyond CCs initial WTB post. CC said he had everything in PM or email. That was my main reason for asking about pasting the email exchange here.

[comix4fun]

 

I do see a problem in that I think the boards are very susceptible to group think.

 

These boards would be a researcher's wet dream.

 

I fully support Crees, JMG or whatever his name is be put to a vote for the HOS. It would help if some others that had similar situations to DEM speak up but he sounds habitual.

 

I would also submit that Columbia Comics' seller be nominated for the PL. It is the same situation as JMG. Both situations are sellers trying to bilk some more money after an agreed upon deal.

 

 

 

I had an experience with Crees/Jean-Marc/Christophe et al. , where I was negotiating for a piece, the price kept changing, phantom/unknown other "buyers" would offer more, I would get an invitation to match that "solid offer" and it was mine. I refused to enter in that agreement.

 

Lots of strange things happened after that. The page was listed again for sale at a price lower than the solid offer. Then sold on Ebay for thousands less. Just made me glad I stopped when I did.

 

Between that, and the switching screen names when the heat gets too hot, and having no less than THREE different real world names (and possibly more) I'd say this is a touch more than simple probation list activity in my humble opinion.

[Aces]

I have not been very involved in HOS/Probation list discussions so I dont have a good feel for what is/isnt worthy of the HOS upgrade.

 

Posting dog balls in threads seems to be a one way ticket

Oh lord. Forgot about that guy.

 

 

and it was even better than just posting dog balls... he went back and edited every post he had made to just be pictures of dog balls... and they weren't all the same image either, he had a whole roster to choose from apparently!

 

that was a fun day...

I missed that.

But it's nice to know some people come to a message board well prepared.

[MediumLover]

I have not been very involved in HOS/Probation list discussions so I dont have a good feel for what is/isnt worthy of the HOS upgrade.

 

Posting dog balls in threads seems to be a one way ticket

Oh lord. Forgot about that guy.

 

 

and it was even better than just posting dog balls... he went back and edited every post he had made to just be pictures of dog balls... and they weren't all the same image either, he had a whole roster to choose from apparently!

 

that was a fun day...

 

[Dr. Love]

A thought about JMG. Some were amazed at his out front admission that a deal was had but discarded in favor of a (supposed) better offer. If he comes from a Middle Eastern culture then that could explain the disconnect with mainstream Western values on "one's word" and the parameters of what is honorable vs what is regrettable in a negotiation.

 

In my experience (I was part of a car buying group), which has included dealings with Persians (Iranians), Lebanese, Israelis, and Egyptians, money changing hands is more where the hard line is drawn. Until then, it can be somewhat fluid. Also, what we see as lying can be viewed by a different culture as skillful manipulation in which shame falls more on the deceived than the clever negotiator.

 

Please excuse the broad brush and please don't anyone take offense. These are random thoughts triggered by JMG's unusual declaration and, being French, the possibility of a Mid East background.

 

Also, this is not a justification for why he shouldn't go into the HOS. If true, it's actually more of a reason why he eventually should.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Dr. Love

[Beige]

Really? No sir, idealist is the correct word.

 

That is a pleasantly philosophical kind of statement but it doesn't actually say anything. It does put the "passive" in "passive aggressive".

 

Just call me Ghandi then.

 

I like that term. It is a completely overused and inaccurate term but to each their own.

 

You are an idealist if you believe this does not occur with consistent regularity. Manipulating people, prices and to some extent the markets.

 

Quite a few probation worthy activities never make this discussion thread because the offended are "discouraged" from coming here or "encouraged" to go elsewhere. There have been a multitude of comments claiming a boys club. All too often they are simply dismissed. There are a few boys clubs, for lack of a better term, and in all honesty it makes the probation list a joke.

 

Then instead of getting on my case (not just you but all the eye rollers) for not visiting the Modern Sales thread (why would I?) why not DO something about it? It would make an ideal topic for the General Discussions thread inside Forum Only Selling.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1976814#Post1976814

 

Because he's one of the Mafia Pov!

Jeff wtf are you on about? You are one of the main protaganists.

Larry -

You ALWAYS 'accidently' disclose how many 9.8's you have of a certain comic.

People are nicely polite to you because you are Canadian??

No, you have stock that people want.

Your popularity is in your inventory.

No stock - no love.

Quite a few people don't like you - it's a shame because deep down I think you are an OK guy.

Sorry dude, but thats how it is.

Playing the "psst - hey mods,wanna tell you a story", come on fella - geez.

Beachbum just sells his stuff - no issues, fair and an open seller.

You,Jenious and Larry would sell your mothers ovaries for a 9.8 WD #1.

Sad but true.

[Speedy-D]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

agreed

[Jeffro.]

What did Larry spew this time to get himself in trouble?

[miraclemet]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

agreed

 

agreed, my only thought to the JMG is that he appears to be a serial deal breaker, or at least a serial shady negotiator, and if anyone has had a simple and fair transaction with him (where JMG is the seller) they havent come out to defend the guy yet... every one who has come forward has painted the same shady fluctuating price/imaginary competing offers strategy.

 

I think a serial deal breaker might be HOS worthy.

 

But in reality its a moot point right? People who are on the PL get the same (or at least enough) scarlet letter treatment to keep them off the boards, or at least out of the public marketplaces, so there's no real punitive difference between the PL and the HOS right? The only difference is someone on the PL has a way to make things right, while a HOSer is done. Someone who is a lifetime PLer (cause they've stated they never intend to make things right) is just as ostricized as a HOSer.

 

is that a fair assessment?

[crassus]

In my opinion, HOS should be for those who 1) stole money from a transaction [sold but never delivered or delivered fraudulently] or 2) are repeat offenders. I think deal breakers should be probation list material.

agreed

 

agreed, my only thought to the JMG is that he appears to be a serial deal breaker, or at least a serial shady negotiator, and if anyone has had a simple and fair transaction with him (where JMG is the seller) they havent come out to defend the guy yet... every one who has come forward has painted the same shady fluctuating price/imaginary competing offers strategy.

 

I think a serial deal breaker might be HOS worthy.

 

But in reality its a moot point right? People who are on the PL get the same (or at least enough) scarlet letter treatment to keep them off the boards, or at least out of the public marketplaces, so there's no real punitive difference between the PL and the HOS right? The only difference is someone on the PL has a way to make things right, while a HOSer is done. Someone who is a lifetime PLer (cause they've stated they never intend to make things right) is just as ostricized as a HOSer.

 

is that a fair assessment?

 

I think practically, yes. Although it does matter in terms of severity of offense. If you honestly think someone has done things deserving of HoS, than leaving them on the PL might seem like justice denied. Granted if there is not the actual documented evidence of repeat offenses, than the PL is all you have, and a lifetime PLer, as you say, is as banned as the HoS. I guess than the difference would be one of the stigma attached, but it is also the case that by the rules a vote can take someone off the HoS, it is not absolutely permanent either.

[vader2001]

You see the same thing in a lot of FS threads. No HOSer's or PL's, but who really checks if someone puts up the does a seller check to see if that person is on either of those lists? I know it's the responsibility of the seller to check the lists, but if he doesn't both lists are sort of moot.

 

 

[Sqeggs]

You see the same thing in a lot of FS threads. No HOSer's or PL's, but who really checks if someone puts up the does a seller check to see if that person is on either of those lists? I know it's the responsibility of the seller to check the lists, but if he doesn't both lists are sort of moot.

 

 

Seems to me I have seen it a couple of times. It's also fair game, I think, for someone other than the seller to point it out if a potential buyer is on the PL or in the HOS.

[N/A]

Really? No sir, idealist is the correct word.

 

That is a pleasantly philosophical kind of statement but it doesn't actually say anything. It does put the "passive" in "passive aggressive".

 

Just call me Ghandi then.

 

I like that term. It is a completely overused and inaccurate term but to each their own.

 

You are an idealist if you believe this does not occur with consistent regularity. Manipulating people, prices and to some extent the markets.

 

Quite a few probation worthy activities never make this discussion thread because the offended are "discouraged" from coming here or "encouraged" to go elsewhere. There have been a multitude of comments claiming a boys club. All too often they are simply dismissed. There are a few boys clubs, for lack of a better term, and in all honesty it makes the probation list a joke.

 

Then instead of getting on my case (not just you but all the eye rollers) for not visiting the Modern Sales thread (why would I?) why not DO something about it? It would make an ideal topic for the General Discussions thread inside Forum Only Selling.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1976814#Post1976814

 

Because he's one of the Mafia Pov!

Jeff wtf are you on about? You are one of the main protaganists.

Larry -

You ALWAYS 'accidently' disclose how many 9.8's you have of a certain comic.

People are nicely polite to you because you are Canadian??

No, you have stock that people want.

Your popularity is in your inventory.

No stock - no love.

Quite a few people don't like you - it's a shame because deep down I think you are an OK guy.

Sorry dude, but thats how it is.

Playing the "psst - hey mods,wanna tell you a story", come on fella - geez.

Beachbum just sells his stuff - no issues, fair and an open seller.

You,Jenious and Larry would sell your mothers ovaries for a 9.8 WD #1.

Sad but true.

 

I'm going to assume there was a fair amount of liquor in this post. I'm a chronic mess disturber. Problem is I always lack a plan. (thumbs u

 

And the whole idea of people being nice because of what you can do for them just makes me sad. I hope the majority do not agree that acting like that should be standard practice. I've been advised to treat certain people nicely because of the Creators they know. Thanks but no thanks.

[comix4fun]

Really? No sir, idealist is the correct word.

 

That is a pleasantly philosophical kind of statement but it doesn't actually say anything. It does put the "passive" in "passive aggressive".

 

Just call me Ghandi then.

 

I like that term. It is a completely overused and inaccurate term but to each their own.

 

You are an idealist if you believe this does not occur with consistent regularity. Manipulating people, prices and to some extent the markets.

 

Quite a few probation worthy activities never make this discussion thread because the offended are "discouraged" from coming here or "encouraged" to go elsewhere. There have been a multitude of comments claiming a boys club. All too often they are simply dismissed. There are a few boys clubs, for lack of a better term, and in all honesty it makes the probation list a joke.

 

Then instead of getting on my case (not just you but all the eye rollers) for not visiting the Modern Sales thread (why would I?) why not DO something about it? It would make an ideal topic for the General Discussions thread inside Forum Only Selling.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1976814#Post1976814

 

Because he's one of the Mafia Pov!

Jeff wtf are you on about? You are one of the main protaganists.

Larry -

You ALWAYS 'accidently' disclose how many 9.8's you have of a certain comic.

People are nicely polite to you because you are Canadian??

No, you have stock that people want.

Your popularity is in your inventory.

No stock - no love.

Quite a few people don't like you - it's a shame because deep down I think you are an OK guy.

Sorry dude, but thats how it is.

Playing the "psst - hey mods,wanna tell you a story", come on fella - geez.

Beachbum just sells his stuff - no issues, fair and an open seller.

You,Jenious and Larry would sell your mothers ovaries for a 9.8 WD #1.

Sad but true.

 

I'm going to assume there was a fair amount of liquor in this post. I'm a chronic mess disturber. Problem is I always lack a plan. (thumbs u

 

And the whole idea of people being nice because of what you can do for them just makes me sad. I hope the majority do not agree that acting like that should be standard practice. I've been advised to treat certain people nicely because of the Creators they know. Thanks but no thanks.

 

 

I can vouch for that. You know all about the creators I am close to, but you've always treated me like anyway !