PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[wombat]

Was the buyer not offered a cheaper shipping option more in line with his expectations on cost? It looks like it.

[CAHokie]

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

Finally the above quote does make a valid point as the buyer appears to have made more of an attempt to compromise than the seller.

 

How much more should the seller have compromised? He offered to chip in $20 on shipping and gave him several quotes for shipping options.

[asteroid-comix]

PL worthy as written unless Xela has some other version of the story and can provide facts to support.

 

Claim a book, agree to a deal, or anything that commits you to a transaction is PL worthy if you later back out without agreement by the seller.

 

So, I suppose my thought piece there was basically asking whether this type of situation being in the PL domain was what we wanted our culture here to be.

 

Really? This scenario (albeit not that swift on Xela's part) arising from a PL discussion stemming from a WTB thread, should get Xela on the PL?

 

That's a hard- line to take, but OK

 

I suppose this is getting us back towards a discussion about what should be the scope of the PL (and whether it has gotten watered down)...that discussion didn't make it very far last time around...

 

Hard- line to take?

 

Ok, that's one way to describe it. Another may be trustful, respectful and one with integrity. A culture that does not allow someone to go back on their word isn't one that is hard-, it's one built on trust.

 

Commit to a deal and then back out, you should go on the PL. This isn't HOS worthy, which is where a lot of the watered down issues reside in my opinion, but this is PL worthy.

 

 

[Number 6]

I replied I would do $450 but wouldn't pay postage to the UK as it could be $50-$60. I'd pay the 1st $20 and he would have to pay the rest.

 

I replied back that after packing the books and checking on usps.com that shipping was $63 for Priority Express International insured for $400;

 

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

I would agree with you to an extent except for this:

I checked again and sent him the 3 quotes from usps: Priority Express Int w/insurance for $63; Priority Int w/certificate of mailing for $53; and 1st class w/certificate of mailing for $31. I said I can't be responsible for the latter 2 as they can only be insured for up to $70. It was his choice on shipping.

 

He gave the buyer several alternatives to get the price down.

 

 

Well, he gave him 3 quotes & told him he was basically screwed if he choose either of the last 2 options.

 

Yes, but the buyer mentioned a previous deal where a board member who had shipped him several slabs for $25.

 

The reality is he would have been "screwed" with that shipping rate. This seller was at least being up front about that fact.

[boomtown]

If buyer is not prepared to pay extra for an international shipment,don't post the I'll take it. Simple really!

 

Yeah, but it's really not that simple. As stated previously, the buyer has already had books sent at $25 so, in his mind, he thought the shipping would be closer to $25 then $65.

 

Which in fact it would, if not for the insurance that the seller was requiring. Was that mentioned up front that insurance would be paid by the buyer? We don't know, so not really that simple.

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

I don't know, that's what you implied in your first post

[bcc]

I'm not trying to force Xela to make a deal. At this point I will not ever deal with him again, especially after his reply this morning to my informing him of the discussion here as I'm supposed to do. He replied: "lol

 

You've hurt my feelings :\ " then removed himself from the topic.

 

I would have had no problem just forgetting the whole thing and just blocking him from dealing with me if he had replied something like this: 'I'm sorry but I've decided the books and postage are more than I want to pay at this time, sorry for any inconvienance. I know I said I'd take them but after some thought I'd like to pass if that is OK with you', but I got nothing except "I'll pass"

I accept 100% returns so it would have been really no different than that, still would not have had a deal.

 

My contention is that he has offered no explaination, no apology, and has in fact been rude and cavalier in his attitude about the whole thing proven by his response this morning and his removal once again from the topic.

 

This just demonstrates he did not have buyers remorse but is a person who is not to be trusted and very disrespectful of the time I spent scanning, PMing, looking up postage prices, and packing the books. I realize that is part of doing business but not after agreeing to buy the books. It was his WTB ad and he is the one to agree to purchase.

 

You guys do what you want; I've blocked him from deals with me. I'm just trying to warn other people of the kind of person his actions have demonstrated he really is; maybe some time spent unable to do any transactions will help him grow up and realize that the way you treat people sometimes has consequences.

 

 

[wombat]

Its up to you if you want to nominate him for the PL.

[oakman29]

So xela is his board name? Chalk another one I won't deal with. Funny my do not buy from list is so much bigger than my buy from list,sad really.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

Not really so funny Oak. There is the matter of $500 liability here.

 

Pardon my saying so but I have noticed before that you seem to be quite un-moving and not terribly understanding of the difficulties involved when it comes to international shipping.It is exactly the point that can break a deal.

 

 

 

 

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

I am sorry but this is a really good point. Both parties need to be willing to compromise if a deal is to be met and the buyer appears to have been more understanding at this point. He had no choice but to back out as that was probably the least foul action he could take.

 

IMO not PL worthy

 

 

[bcc]

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

 

 

I am not usually involved in probation discussions and I do not have anything involved but I am not so sure this is probation list worthy.

 

First the buyer politely backed out of the deal. Clearly resigned,but not reneged. They did not like the conditions of the sale.

 

Second the deal was struck but the 2 parties could not agree to shipping terms.

 

Finally the above quote does make a valid point as the buyer appears to have made more of an attempt to compromise than the seller.

 

 

Perhaps a strike or two is in order for the buyer, but in all fairness I would limit it there.

 

 

FYI The buyer did not politely back out of the deal, he said "I'll pass" no other explaination and refused to communicate anymore

 

We did agree to shipping terms. I said the shipping would prob be $50-$60 and he said I'll take it. in that order.

 

Finally, he made ZERO attempt to compromise, I have no idea where you are getting that from.

[Number 6]

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

I am sorry but this is a really good point. Both parties need to be willing to compromise if a deal is to be met and the buyer appears to have been more understanding at this point. He had no choice but to back out as that was probably the least foul action he could take.

 

No, it's not really that good of a point

 

The seller was going to chip in $20 towards the cost of shipping - which would cover the added expense of insurance.

 

The seller also offered a couple of shipping rates that were uninsured. Yes, he was clear that there would be no coverage. But since the buyer suggested a shipping rate of $25 - which was also an uninsured rate - he should have been o.k. with that.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Number 6

[oakman29]

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

Not really so funny Oak. There is the matter of $500 liability here.

 

Pardon my saying so but I have noticed before that you seem to be quite un-moving and not terribly understanding of the difficulties involved when it comes to international shipping.It is exactly the point that can break a deal.

 

 

 

No it's not because I'm not understanding of the difficulties. I would however have honored a deal regardless of cost of shipping,because 1) I know shipping is expensive for international shipping 2) I have morals and ethics and would complete my purchase.So breaking a deal would not have happened with me regardless if shipping was 25 dollars or 75 dollars,because I made a deal and my word is my bond.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

 

 

FYI The buyer did not politely back out of the deal, he said "I'll pass" no other explaination and refused to communicate anymore

 

We did agree to shipping terms. I said the shipping would prob be $50-$60 and he said I'll take it. in that order.

 

Finally, he made ZERO attempt to compromise, I have no idea where you are getting that from.

 

Must think on this...

 

 

No, it's not really that good of a point

 

The seller was going to chip in $20 towards the cost of shipping - which would cover the added expense of insurance.

 

The seller also offered a couple of shipping rates that were uninsured. Yes, he was clear that there would be no coverage. But since the buyer suggested a shipping rate of $25 - which was also an uninsured rate - he should have been o.k. with that.

 

Must think on this too...

 

 

 

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

 

 

Pardon my saying so but I have noticed before that you seem to be quite un-moving and not terribly understanding of the difficulties involved when it comes to international shipping.It is exactly the point that can break a deal.

 

 

 

No it's not because I'm not understanding of the difficulties. I would however have honored a deal regardless of cost of shipping,because 1) I know shipping is expensive for international shipping 2) I have morals and ethics and would complete my purchase.So breaking a deal would not have happened with me regardless if shipping was 25 dollars or 75 dollars,because I made a deal and my word is my bond.

 

Ok I should not have said you were not understanding.My mistake.

 

I tried to find a rule book on the boards for WTB threads and it does not appear there is anything as clear cut as posting a selling thread.

 

Just saying.

[jaybuck43]

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

Not really so funny Oak. There is the matter of $500 liability here.

 

Pardon my saying so but I have noticed before that you seem to be quite un-moving and not terribly understanding of the difficulties involved when it comes to international shipping.It is exactly the point that can break a deal.

 

 

 

 

Only issue is, insurance is seller's responsibility, not buyer's, unless specifically agreed

 

I am sorry but this is a really good point. Both parties need to be willing to compromise if a deal is to be met and the buyer appears to have been more understanding at this point. He had no choice but to back out as that was probably the least foul action he could take.

 

IMO not PL worthy

 

 

Horrorshow, if the buyer thought that the cost was going to be $25 he should have said so, or should have asked for an approximate shipping quote BEFORE saying he takes it. Heck BCC GAVE him a quote of 50-60 at the start of the discussion and the final price as 63, so it's not like he quoted him 50 and said oops it was 75. BCC compromised. He 1st gave him an approximate quote and gave him a $20 credit. Then he offered to drop the price down to $11 cost for buyer but the seller is not responsible for any shipping damage. Don't agree to a "cost" price and then not like it after you agreed to it.

 

I'll give you an example. I spoke with a dealer yesterday to buy a book. I told him the conditions I wanted on the book (needed to be a 6.5 or better, OW pages or better, blue or yellow label) and told him I would buy it sight unseen so long as the price is under $1500. If he comes back to me with a 6.5 Blue label OW at a price of $1500, I'm paying it even though it may be higher than GPA etc.

 

It's weird that Xela would scuttle a deal over $18 (the difference between what he wanted to pay for shipping ($25), and what the seller wanted to charge ($43) especially after being shown that it was actual cost and not one of these "Hey ill charge you 43 but only pay 25 and pocket the difference as an extra income" deals.

[Sqeggs]

I'm not trying to force Xela to make a deal. At this point I will not ever deal with him again, especially after his reply this morning to my informing him of the discussion here as I'm supposed to do. He replied: "lol

 

You've hurt my feelings :\ " then removed himself from the topic.

 

I would have had no problem just forgetting the whole thing and just blocking him from dealing with me if he had replied something like this: 'I'm sorry but I've decided the books and postage are more than I want to pay at this time, sorry for any inconvienance. I know I said I'd take them but after some thought I'd like to pass if that is OK with you', but I got nothing except "I'll pass"

I accept 100% returns so it would have been really no different than that, still would not have had a deal.

 

My contention is that he has offered no explaination, no apology, and has in fact been rude and cavalier in his attitude about the whole thing proven by his response this morning and his removal once again from the topic.

 

This just demonstrates he did not have buyers remorse but is a person who is not to be trusted and very disrespectful of the time I spent scanning, PMing, looking up postage prices, and packing the books. I realize that is part of doing business but not after agreeing to buy the books. It was his WTB ad and he is the one to agree to purchase.

 

You guys do what you want; I've blocked him from deals with me. I'm just trying to warn other people of the kind of person his actions have demonstrated he really is; maybe some time spent unable to do any transactions will help him grow up and realize that the way you treat people sometimes has consequences.

 

 

I'm inclined to agree with Ed on this one. As a seller I wouldn't want to force a buyer to carry through on a deal that he wants to back out of even if the buyer is being a jerk.

 

By posting the story in this thread, you have alerted people -- at least those who read the thread -- about this buyer. Putting him on the PL list doesn't stop people from selling to him if they choose to. My impression is that people on the PL are still able to buy either because they do so through PMs or because sellers don't bother to check the lists, whatever their TOS may say.

 

I believe the letter of the law allows you to go through with a PL nomination should you choose to do so, but would you be willing to sell the books to him now? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the rules, but if you nominate him and he comes back on to say, "Ok, I'll buy the books" you are obliged to sell them to him.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

 

Horrorshow, if the buyer thought that the cost was going to be $25 he should have said so, or should have asked for an approximate shipping quote BEFORE saying he takes it. Heck BCC GAVE him a quote of 50-60 at the start of the discussion and the final price as 63, so it's not like he quoted him 50 and said oops it was 75. BCC compromised. He 1st gave him an approximate quote and gave him a $20 credit. Then he offered to drop the price down to $11 cost for buyer but the seller is not responsible for any shipping damage. Don't agree to a "cost" price and then not like it after you agreed to it.

 

 

jaybuck I suppose you make a good point for the seller trying compromise as well.

[HarveySwick]

his reply this morning to my informing him of the discussion here as I'm supposed to do. He replied: "lol

 

You've hurt my feelings :\ " then removed himself from the topic.

 

person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed move for sure, and with that reply I'm sure he'll be added to plenty of personal lists but this is definitely a grey area and not so black and white. I think the buyer was under the impression that he'd be on the hook for no more than $10 for shipping costs with the book being insured. When presented with a much grater cost, he made it clear that he was out. There was never truly a "meeting of the minds" and a completed deal.

 

I'm not trying to force Xela to make a deal. At this point I will not ever deal with him again

 

And if he was added to the Probation List, how would he get off as you've stated you have no intention of ever dealing with him in the future making the completion of the deal an impossibility?

 

It's definitely a frustrating situation and glad you made it public so anyone can know the type of buyer they'd be dealing with if they were trying to work out a deal with Xela, but I don't think it's a PL worthy situation since the actual price was never agreed upon with the shipping costs factored in. A couple of books difference is but we're talking about a difference in $20 - $40 difference.

[MetalPSI]

If buyer is not prepared to pay extra for an international shipment,don't post the I'll take it. Simple really!

 

Yeah, but it's really not that simple. As stated previously, the buyer has already had books sent at $25 so, in his mind, he thought the shipping would be closer to $25 then $65.

 

Which in fact it would, if not for the insurance that the seller was requiring. Was that mentioned up front that insurance would be paid by the buyer? We don't know, so not really that simple.

 

 

Buyers going to blow a deal over shipping?

 

 

 

Some people are retarded over shipping. Yeah its fricken expensive, but if I want a book, I have to pay. Or if you sell a book, up the price $10 or just don't ship to Canada.

[H0RR0RSH0W]

 

It's definitely a frustrating situation and glad you made it public so anyone can know the type of buyer they'd be dealing with if they were trying to work out a deal with Xela, but I don't think it's a PL worthy situation since the actual price was never agreed upon with the shipping costs factored in. A couple of books difference is but we're talking about a difference in $20 - $40 difference.

 

I think the medicine has taken affect.

 

That's what I said.

 

 

[HarveySwick]

I also wanted to mention - this was a response to a WTB thread. NOT an in a sales thread.

 

If it was a response to a sales thread, I'd be more inclined to say this could be a valid PL nomination. But it's a PM response to a WTB thread. The guy wasted your time and that sucks - but I don't see it as a completed deal and not PL worthy. Again, just my