PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Mac Man]

After reading Ghastly's response (and the example of the 'break it you buy it rule' is noted), I was waiting for Sharon to pipe in about customer service.

 

"

 

I must be boring, if I'm THAT obvious, ...sorry... I just figure sometimes people (even men) get emotional about a subject and can't see the forest for the trees..

 

Nice pun! Boring- far from it. Dependable is more like it. If it was so obvious, we wouldn't have this problem. Your point and illustrations are quite appropriate to the situation.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Mac Man

[divad]

Ghastly, I think what you are missing here, is that it's not just the seller's responsibility to mail an item, but to also protect the item with packaging against possible damage.

 

I'll give you two examples, since you used glass. I once bought a lot of glass off Ebay, about 5 pieces. The seller put the glass (vases and sugar and creamers) in the boxes, with about 3 pieces of crumbled newspaper as packing, that was it. The glass came in about 50 pieces. The seller didn't make an effort to protect it, he got my money, he shipped the glass, in his mind, end of story. He was wrong.

 

Last week, I shipped someone a china horse. I wrapped it in foam, double boxed it, wrapped the inside box in bubble wrap, packed it in a larger box with peanuts very tightly, it still came with a broken leg, but the buyer said she is not upset with me, because it was the best packing job she had ever seen (she might be exaggerating but I tried). It was really a shame. She keeps telling me she is not upset with me..because I tried my best.

 

We all know the postal service plays football with the packages, USP and FedEx too, it's the nature of the beast. It has nothing to do with a neighbor, kids, or anything else, we KNOW the boxes are going to get tossed around...so, when you pack something, especially something expensive in high grade, you need adequate packing around the items to protect it.

 

As for me, I figure I learn something every day...I don't think people are calling you a liar...I think people just want you to admit you made an error in judgment and that you will work something out with Ray, since you made an error when you packed the box...I just don't see it as his fault, all he did was pay you.

 

I've learned to insure ANYTHING I sell, even if the buyer doesn't want to pay for it, that is over the amount I would feel comfortable reimbursing the buyer for in case of a problem. If FedEx has automatic insurance (I know UPS does up to $200) YOU might want to be a nice guy about it, and at least give them a call.

 

 

At least that's how I see it...

 

I didn't see Ray's response before I posted this...

 

 

I'm glad someone around here actually get's it! This is why we love you Sharon!

[szelim]

Men, do not get emotional. Men, get angry. Just so you know.

And looney

I was just kidding around with Sharon.

I know. But men ARE looney.

[topofthetotem]

When a parcel I sent to Anfeild got damaged I refunded half the cost to that muppet. He did not ask for any money or refund of any kind but I felt it was the right think to do.

I honestly think of this board and the people here as friends, so I would rather get dinged for a few bucks then drive away a friend even if it is only Anfeild.

 

[Anfield Fox]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

[topofthetotem]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

[greggy]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

I failed you with the last package.

[topofthetotem]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

I failed you with the last package.

No surprise there!

[Point Five]

I know I said I wasnt going to respond more than once but I feel its needed.

 

 

I packed that box very tight. The box itself weighed over 40lbs. Ray admitted that the box had a crushed corner and since the box did not have a crushed corner when it left me I can only assume it was dropped. A box weighing 40+lbs when dropped is going to have problems its sheer physics. There were 140 or so magazines in that box and Ray mentions that a few were shifted. The picture he posted shows its a mess inside but it didnt look like that when I sent it, so yes that box sustained damage resulting in magazines shifting around. Now to the Eerie #2 that book had its cover attached I SWEAR to God. I wouldnt lie about the condition that would be awfully dumb when Ray can then post that Im a lair and a thief. Ive never ripped anyone off nor did I "overgrade the book". I purchased that book from Metropolis and had it for 2 years or so...I stated all defects in my ad and thats how it was when it left thats how it was when I recieved it from Metropolis. Now anyone who has seen an Eerie #2 knows they have a single staple in the middle not 2 like most books. If that box as dropped from high enough or hard enough or many times than yes I can see that book having its cover detached. Its a 50+ year old book that was in vg/f condition. I can try and make an anology....

 

If a customer at a comicbook store asks the clerk to see and hold a golden age book in a Mylar and while in the customers possesion and due to the customers mishandling he drops the book and cause serious damage... is the store/clerk at fault or is the customer at fault for damaged sustained from the fall? Im guessing it would be pinned on the customer. Ever see the signs in the store "You break it you buy it" ?

 

Im sorry in my first post If I made it sound like it was all Rays fault, my point was that if I had an expensive box coming and I knew I was leaving town for a week I would have told the shipper to wait a week so I could recieve the box myself. In that case there are no "gray areas" as to what happened with the box while not in the buyers possesion. The box was not in Ray's possesion for 1 week ! In reality Ray has NO idea what happened to that box in a weeks time nor do I. Im sure Ray trusts his neighbor but Im supposed to as well? Why should I ? I dont even know Ray or have reason to trust him. Why didnt Ray file a complaint with FedEx ? I declared the value of that box so he should have some sorta recourse. Metropolis states on their site that if a box is damaged contact the shipping company.

 

The whole thing comes down to Ray believes I sent him that Eerie in worse shape than stated. I say it was as stated and it then comes down to my word versus what Ray believes but doesnt know.I know that book was in the conditon I stated it as. Ray believes that the conditon of the book presently could not have happened during shipping or after and I say it had to have! The book was in the condition I claimed it was i.e. cover attached and with the noted defects. I find it unbelievable that many here assume I lied about the condition but why cant I then turn around and say Maybe Ray accidently tore the cover off removing it from the mylar ? Maybe Ray dropped it ? Maybe Rays neighbor played frisbee with it while he had the box for a week ? Who knows !?!?!? Those accusations seem kinda harsh but isnt that what Ray was essentially saying about me ? My point is why am I the liar ? Exactly what in my past dealings here make some think that I would knowingly lie about the condition of books??? Is it that Ray has posted here longer ? What entitles some to be labeled a thief and a liar without proof and others as solid honest people ?

 

 

Im terribly sorry Ray is unhappy but for the fact that the box was damaged the books where jumbled about leads me to believe thats what caused the Eerie to suffer its damage. If you buy a glass vase thats in mint condition and you notice the box is damaged when it arrives and the vase is broken inside do you assume that the seller lied about the vase being in mint condition or that maybe the box was mishandled and the damage happened because of it. If you guys wanna put me on a list of "bad guys" then go ahead or as one obtuse poster said that I should be killed then fine be my guest. I really like this forum and enjoy posting here and reading others posts so it would be a shame if Im not welcome. Ill say this one more time Im not a liar nor am I a thief I mad an honest transaction with Ray. The box was damaged and thus the contents were damaged. I felt I packed the box well but a box at that weight if dropped can lead to damage.

 

 

Ghastly

Hi Ghastly,

 

I have nothing against you personally, but honestly, I don't think this will change anyone's mind.

 

You still come across as fundamentally just not wanting to deal with this problem in any way....and thus, regardless of the details you outline above or any of the various arguments you come up with, your rep here is still going to be shot. Communication and handling problems are part of the territory in any transaction.

 

Why not take a deep breath, begin a dialogue with Ray, and maybe the two of you can reach a compromise and get some closure on this. I actually think he has shown quite a bit of restraint in outlining the case and refraining from personal attacks...more than most here would in this situation. If you approach him and try to work something out instead of running away from this, I think you will find he is a good guy to deal with.

 

Jon

 

 

 

[joeypost]

I know I said I wasnt going to respond more than once but I feel its needed.

 

 

I packed that box very tight. The box itself weighed over 40lbs. Ray admitted that the box had a crushed corner and since the box did not have a crushed corner when it left me I can only assume it was dropped. A box weighing 40+lbs when dropped is going to have problems its sheer physics. There were 140 or so magazines in that box and Ray mentions that a few were shifted. The picture he posted shows its a mess inside but it didnt look like that when I sent it, so yes that box sustained damage resulting in magazines shifting around. Now to the Eerie #2 that book had its cover attached I SWEAR to God. I wouldnt lie about the condition that would be awfully dumb when Ray can then post that Im a lair and a thief. Ive never ripped anyone off nor did I "overgrade the book". I purchased that book from Metropolis and had it for 2 years or so...I stated all defects in my ad and thats how it was when it left thats how it was when I recieved it from Metropolis. Now anyone who has seen an Eerie #2 knows they have a single staple in the middle not 2 like most books. If that box as dropped from high enough or hard enough or many times than yes I can see that book having its cover detached. Its a 50+ year old book that was in vg/f condition. I can try and make an anology....

 

If a customer at a comicbook store asks the clerk to see and hold a golden age book in a Mylar and while in the customers possesion and due to the customers mishandling he drops the book and cause serious damage... is the store/clerk at fault or is the customer at fault for damaged sustained from the fall? Im guessing it would be pinned on the customer. Ever see the signs in the store "You break it you buy it" ?

 

Im sorry in my first post If I made it sound like it was all Rays fault, my point was that if I had an expensive box coming and I knew I was leaving town for a week I would have told the shipper to wait a week so I could recieve the box myself. In that case there are no "gray areas" as to what happened with the box while not in the buyers possesion. The box was not in Ray's possesion for 1 week ! In reality Ray has NO idea what happened to that box in a weeks time nor do I. Im sure Ray trusts his neighbor but Im supposed to as well? Why should I ? I dont even know Ray or have reason to trust him. Why didnt Ray file a complaint with FedEx ? I declared the value of that box so he should have some sorta recourse. Metropolis states on their site that if a box is damaged contact the shipping company.

 

The whole thing comes down to Ray believes I sent him that Eerie in worse shape than stated. I say it was as stated and it then comes down to my word versus what Ray believes but doesnt know.I know that book was in the conditon I stated it as. Ray believes that the conditon of the book presently could not have happened during shipping or after and I say it had to have! The book was in the condition I claimed it was i.e. cover attached and with the noted defects. I find it unbelievable that many here assume I lied about the condition but why cant I then turn around and say Maybe Ray accidently tore the cover off removing it from the mylar ? Maybe Ray dropped it ? Maybe Rays neighbor played frisbee with it while he had the box for a week ? Who knows !?!?!? Those accusations seem kinda harsh but isnt that what Ray was essentially saying about me ? My point is why am I the liar ? Exactly what in my past dealings here make some think that I would knowingly lie about the condition of books??? Is it that Ray has posted here longer ? What entitles some to be labeled a thief and a liar without proof and others as solid honest people ?

 

 

Im terribly sorry Ray is unhappy but for the fact that the box was damaged the books where jumbled about leads me to believe thats what caused the Eerie to suffer its damage. If you buy a glass vase thats in mint condition and you notice the box is damaged when it arrives and the vase is broken inside do you assume that the seller lied about the vase being in mint condition or that maybe the box was mishandled and the damage happened because of it. If you guys wanna put me on a list of "bad guys" then go ahead or as one obtuse poster said that I should be killed then fine be my guest. I really like this forum and enjoy posting here and reading others posts so it would be a shame if Im not welcome. Ill say this one more time Im not a liar nor am I a thief I mad an honest transaction with Ray. The box was damaged and thus the contents were damaged. I felt I packed the box well but a box at that weight if dropped can lead to damage.

 

Ghastly

 

At that point it may have been prudent to use more than 1 box.

[DrWatson]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

I failed you with the last package.

When I got greggy's package, it was one of the nicest I had ever seen. I think I still have parts of that package lying around the house.

[shiverbones]

Dahmer?

[BrianR]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

I failed you with the last package.

When I got greggy's package, it was one of the nicest I had ever seen. I think I still have parts of that package lying around the house.

 

Greggy showed you his package?!!??!!!!

Edited December 8, 2007 by comicjunkie

[DrWatson]

The moral of the story? You should have refunded the whole purchase price because im no longer your fwend

 

Yup. Lawrence and countless others here have said it and i'll say it again. The person sending the package is responsible until it arrives to it's destination. You have to package for every scenario short of it being driven over with a truck. You should accept the return.

 

-Muppet

With fwends like you who needs enemies.

I failed you with the last package.

When I got greggy's package, it was one of the nicest I had ever seen. I think I still have parts of that package lying around the house.

 

Greggy showed you his package?!!??!!!!

I even paid big money for it.

[DrWatson]

Hey everyone. This has been fun and all, but we had better cool it before David gets his Frank Zappa in a twist.

[Silvers24]

I don't believe ANYONE has ever said one bad thing about my packaging, from the first time I ever sold a book (Anfield I belive) and when I packaged that up, I had no previous experiance but with movies & games I would sell on ebay. (Which was simple to package up and ship). Course I live by the rule "Ship it the way you'd want it to be if I recived it" so I belive in bomb proof packaging.

And make sure not a thing is moveable (And yes I do test my package before I ship to anyone).

Besides for maby one or two packages, the forumites here I have bought from, had nothing but excellent packaging when I bought from them & they shipped it to me.

 

However Ghastly could have shipped them much better, perhaps 5 books in at least one golden age bag between two thick cardboard slices.

And then rinse & repeate

Indeed packaging. Not a good way to keep buyers coming back.

Edited December 8, 2007 by Silvers24

[Aces]

When Butters sent me a book I thought it was packed between two granite blocks.

[MutantKeys]

Doctor Watson is one of the best when shipping comics.

[divad]

Doctor Watson is one of the best when shipping comics.

 

How would you know?

[PovertyRow]

I packed that box very tight. The box itself weighed over 40lbs. Ray admitted that the box had a crushed corner and since the box did not have a crushed corner when it left me I can only assume it was dropped. A box weighing 40+lbs when dropped is going to have problems its sheer physics.

 

40 pounds which, from the looks of the photos, was almost all weight in books and almost nothing in packaging.

 

As you say, a 40_ pound box when dropped is going to have problems. So, knowing this, why didn't you pack the books in a way that would cover the possibility of it being dropped?