PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Hado]

I have the materials together to put it to a vote Re Beerbohm and could start it as early as tonight, the question is should there be a vote on him being added to the HoS. We have precedence of banned members being added (thehouseofcomics and red rocks come to mind) What do you guys think?

Stealing thousands from a widow seems worthy to me.

[Matthew42383]

Your big deal with not calling the vote before was that at the time of the transaction we weren't both members. If all you care about his the membership of those at the time of transaction (as you demanded before) then he qualifies for this new transaction he failed in because we were both members at the time we were both members.

 

Further Bob knows alot of people in the comic industry. He doesn't need to talk through your boards to generate sales to your board members. Putting him in the HOS will at least get the word out that he's a thief. Protect your boardies from buying from him via ebay, conventions, his store, or directly.

 

Just call the vote and we can be done with the silly turd. Well at least all you can as he still owes me money.

 

Frankly, if this guy has stolen a quarter of a million dollars from a man most of you knew's widow, wondering whether a HOS vote is necessary at this point is the lowest of your problems. Deal with it and get it over with. Please. I've met all your requirements.

[jsilverjanet]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

I'd accept that. There should be something other than a PL and HOS. There is definitely a gray area where someone is constantly on and off the PL.

 

I just think a solution would be increasing the effectiveness of the Kudos thread. Make it a TRUE feedback thread rather than just "yay, they're awesome".

The mods have said that they don't want a positive/negative feedback system because it'll too frequently deteriorate to squabbling, hard feelings and strikes.

 

And remember, getting on the PL is permanent to a certain extent. Even after being removed, all of the previous posts with your name on them are still there for all to see.

Maybe I don't fully understand the PL then. Other than someone going backwards through the history of the PL thread, there really is no where the person's name is listed, if they are removed, on the most current update, right?

 

And instead of squabbling in one's Kudos thread, why couldn't it be treated like the PL thread? No discussions. Just feedback.

 

I'm sympathetic to your argument, but you would have to give the person a chance to defend himself, wouldn't you? I suppose you could allow one response to the original negative feedback and that would be it. Still, though, I don't think there is sufficient support for true feedback threads.

That would work. Much like ebay's system. The first person shares their experience and that's it. One response allowed. And if that person comes across as a raving lunatic in that response, wouldn't that be telling in of itself if a potential buyer/seller wants to deal with this person.

 

On eBay you need to have completed a transaction to leave feedback. Here you do not (not restricted by technology) .

 

Too many people here with vendettas, agendas to truly trust it - yes I'm being cynical

[Logan510]

Sorry for the brief responses - I was multitasking and writing on my phone.

 

Here is what I meant. I feel like the HOS is reserved for those with malicious INTENT to screw others over. Or when they are discovered, they could care less and actually give a big FU to the community and laugh it off. That's what I feel the HOS should be reserved for. I know I'm just a noob and you guys have all been here much longer than me, but that would be my thoughts about the HOS.

 

From my understanding of the menace situation, he's more of a guy that extended an opportunity and may have overextended himself. He screwed up. Isn't he addressing fixing that problem now. Maybe he's not handling it to the best of his ability, but he's trying no? He's not really a "menace" to these Boards. (see what I did there )

 

Guys like Ron Theda and Thomas Neeley and even solarcadet challenged the Boards. They openly undermined the community to the point of reveling in an "I'm better than the Boards" mentality. This is against any sort of community ideology. This guy menace - just screwed up. Is that REALLY someone worthy of the Hall of Shame? A place reserved for the all-time great scoundrels.

 

I still can't understand how the Kudos system is just for positive feedback. If people were allowed to share their full experience there, wouldn't that be much more effective? So if this guy screwed people over for an extended period of time (ultimately fixing the situation in the end) - wouldn't that be a good place for those wronged to express their dealings? That way people potentially dealing with him in the future may reconsider. I think that's much more ideal than simply lumping him with the "Hall of Shame".

 

I'm sorry if this is all rambling and been discussed before. Just my take on the situation.

 

While I agree with your line of thinking, Menace has shown the propensity to screw up ad infinitum. This isn't a new thing with him.

 

And, yes, the kudos forum is useless.

 

Sounds like a perfect candidate for the repeat offenders list.

 

 

Which would be....what? The PL?

 

No, because as we have seen time and again people will get on the PL more than once and just get themselves off the list when they decide they want to sell / buy again. Being on a repeat offender list would let potential new members know if someone has a history and they can use that information when making their decision on whether or not to deal with that person.

[Bosco685]

So it's been a month. Blbcomics still doesn't respond to me. He hasn't mailed the items from last May, like he's promised to again.

 

With him being banned, I'm wondering what other recourse you have at this point.

 

[Speedy-D]

I have the materials together to put it to a vote Re Beerbohm and could start it as early as tonight, the question is should there be a vote on him being added to the HoS. We have precedence of banned members being added (thehouseofcomics and red rocks come to mind) What do you guys think?

Sure, go for it. I just didn't know if Matthew42383 knew he was already banned.

[crassus]

Your big deal with not calling the vote before was that at the time of the transaction we weren't both members. If all you care about his the membership of those at the time of transaction (as you demanded before) then he qualifies for this new transaction he failed in because we were both members at the time we were both members.

 

Further Bob knows alot of people in the comic industry. He doesn't need to talk through your boards to generate sales to your board members. Putting him in the HOS will at least get the word out that he's a thief. Protect your boardies from buying from him via ebay, conventions, his store, or directly.

 

Just call the vote and we can be done with the silly turd. Well at least all you can as he still owes me money.

 

Frankly, if this guy has stolen a quarter of a million dollars from a man most of you knew's widow, wondering whether a HOS vote is necessary at this point is the lowest of your problems. Deal with it and get it over with. Please. I've met all your requirements.

 

I support you. We should hear what Jaybuck has to present and then there should be a vote.

[joeypost]

It wasn't towards anyone in particular - I just think menace on the HOS is a mistake based on rash decisions.

 

Is he actively working on making everyone whole?

Seems to be, yes.

 

Would it be that difficult to give him time to make things right before placing him on the list?

[jaybuck43]

I'll start a poll tonight. 2 week vote. Secret ballot this time, for speedy

[crassus]

It wasn't towards anyone in particular - I just think menace on the HOS is a mistake based on rash decisions.

 

Is he actively working on making everyone whole?

Seems to be, yes.

 

Would it be that difficult to give him time to make things right before placing him on the list?

 

This was the very question of the debate, those who see it as PL rather than HoS worthy assume the problems are fixable, and if fixed, so much the better. But he is now on the HoS, as of now, because of a completed poll. By the rules as they are now he is on there and only another poll will take him off.

 

The situation with Menace has brought up a lot of argument over whether HoS nominations need some vetting before a Poll. At the moment there is no consensus on this, although there is support at least for a blind poll in future, to discourage the mob mentality.

[HarveySwick]

It wasn't towards anyone in particular - I just think menace on the HOS is a mistake based on rash decisions.

 

Is he actively working on making everyone whole?

Seems to be, yes.

 

Would it be that difficult to give him time to make things right before placing him on the list?

I'm confused. I'm agreeing that he shouldn't be on the list.

[Sqeggs]

I have the materials together to put it to a vote Re Beerbohm and could start it as early as tonight, the question is should there be a vote on him being added to the HoS. We have precedence of banned members being added (thehouseofcomics and red rocks come to mind) What do you guys think?

 

My understanding is that BLB promised to deliver the goods by Christmas. There is still mail delivery tomorrow -- December 24. I would wait a day.

[Speedy-D]

It's strange that so many people are arguing to remove him from the list. I missed the whole poll, but it was like 80% in favor of including him right? To those folks that voted him on, have you changed your minds? Do you still feel like Menace should be in the HoS?

[MetalPSI]

It's strange that so many people are arguing to remove him from the list. I missed the whole poll, but it was like 80% in favor of including him right? To those folks that voted him on, have you changed your minds? Do you still feel like Menace should be in the HoS?

 

I will admit to being swayed on Menace. At first I felt that someone who has no idea how to conduct themselves in a orderly fashion businesswise belongs on the list so that others would take the time to think about whom they are dealing with.

 

Then taking the time to really do some research on who is on the list and why made me realize that just because you are a flake, that doesn't make you a crook.

 

If someone were to make a poll to remove him, I would vote for him to be removed based on what the list represents. He does not belong on that list. The HoS list is reserved for people who willingly, knowingly and are committed to swindling people out of their money.

 

Not for used car sales people who don't have a clue about customer service or how they should conduct themselves in a business transaction.

[sacentaur]

I didn't vote on Menace as I didn't follow all the discussion and didn't feel informed enough to cast a ballot, but solarcadet was more than deserving of the HoS.

 

As far as Beerbohm (BLBcomics), well...

[Speedy-D]

It's strange that so many people are arguing to remove him from the list. I missed the whole poll, but it was like 80% in favor of including him right? To those folks that voted him on, have you changed your minds? Do you still feel like Menace should be in the HoS?

 

I will admit to being swayed on Menace. At first I felt that someone who has no idea how to conduct themselves in a orderly fashion businesswise belongs on the list so that others would take the time to think about whom they are dealing with.

 

Then taking the time to really do some research on who is on the list and why made me realize that just because you are a flake, that doesn't make you a crook.

 

If someone were to make a poll to remove him, I would vote for him to be removed based on what the list represents. He does not belong on that list. The HoS list is reserved for people who willingly, knowingly and are committed to swindling people out of their money.

 

Not for used car sales people who don't have a clue about customer service or how they should conduct themselves in a business transaction.

Cool, thanks man.

[Hado]

So now there's more than one instance of people saying their votes were uninformed and would vote differently after learning the facts.

 

Did someone suggest a cooling off period before starting a poll?

[Logan510]

So now there's more than one instance of people saying their votes were uninformed and would vote differently after learning the facts.

 

Did someone suggest a cooling off period before starting a poll?

 

 

I just vote with whatever the majority says

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[N/A]

Your big deal with not calling the vote before was that at the time of the transaction we weren't both members. If all you care about his the membership of those at the time of transaction (as you demanded before) then he qualifies for this new transaction he failed in because we were both members at the time we were both members.

 

Further Bob knows alot of people in the comic industry. He doesn't need to talk through your boards to generate sales to your board members. Putting him in the HOS will at least get the word out that he's a thief. Protect your boardies from buying from him via ebay, conventions, his store, or directly.

 

Just call the vote and we can be done with the silly turd. Well at least all you can as he still owes me money.

 

Frankly, if this guy has stolen a quarter of a million dollars from a man most of you knew's widow, wondering whether a HOS vote is necessary at this point is the lowest of your problems. Deal with it and get it over with. Please. I've met all your requirements.

 

Going to happen.

Chill

We're not the enemy.

[N/A]

I have the materials together to put it to a vote Re Beerbohm and could start it as early as tonight, the question is should there be a vote on him being added to the HoS. We have precedence of banned members being added (thehouseofcomics and red rocks come to mind) What do you guys think?

 

My understanding is that BLB promised to deliver the goods by Christmas. There is still mail delivery tomorrow -- December 24. I would wait a day.