PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[bababooey]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

POV or no, I still don't buy it. They're both Boardies, and that's what this is about. Saying one of them wasn't a Boardie yesterday but is today? Seems silly to me.

 

It's not my fault the rules were written up and interpreted that way.

 

Within the "letter of the law", and how it has been interpreted, Pov's view on the matter is the prevailing view.

 

Perhaps we need to form more committees to muddle up the probation process even more than it is getting.

I'm not blaming you and I'm not asking for any committees. I just don't buy it.

 

EDIT: removed the :shrug: That fella's become way too passive aggressive.

 

Great Speedy, why don't you share your rules with us so we can follow along...

 

[Speedy-D]

A couple questions: I saw Hulk44 canceled with him. Is athaxto trying to get it from you again? Do you want him to? Also, no money or comics have changed hands yet, right?

 

The other big question is, was he a member of these boards when you agreed to sell to him? If not, the transaction wouldn't be eligible for the probation list. This is the same problem we just had with Beerbong and his $3,600 pulp scam. The buyer wasn't a member of the boards at the time, so Beerbong couldn't go on the probation list for that specific violation.

Wha? Why would that be? Seems like we needn't bother ourselves with silly loopholes. It's two Boardies and a botched deal...

 

Quoted from Pov's explanation a few months ago...

 

I'd like to request that Robert Beerbohm be put on the probation and potentially Hall of Shame list. He entered into a $3600 transaction with me on May 31st.

 

Hey Matthew. I read through the entire "other thread" with Mitch calling Bob etc. It sucketh.

 

The one problem is that all this took place while you were not a CGC Member.

 

The PL/HOS rules state, amoung other things,

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

At the time of this transaction you were not a Board Member and you only joined here a few days ago to address this situation.

 

However, it appears there are many examples on Deals Gone Bad from other boardies. Certainly enough to get a PL or HOS result.

 

Any takers here?

 

 

never thought about that fact.

 

splitting hairs, it doesnt say that the they both had to be members at the time of the transaction...

 

I think there have been past cases where someone showed up here because of a problematic offline transaction with a boardie and they got the person HOSed or PLed...

 

Yeah, it does:

 

d) A Transaction between board members is not confined to the CGC Message Boards. Any transaction between forum members, regardless of the venue, is eligible for inclusion in the PL.

 

The transaction was between a board member and a non-board member. There are no hairs split there.

 

I do not know of any cases where someone joined after the transaction and got someone on the PL or HOS. If that did happened it is problematic.

 

Regardless, I repeat - any takers? I never had a transaction with BB. Only met him once at Wondercon around 2000. Asked for pre-code horror and he kept showing me badly overgraded comics that had nothing to do with pre-code horror. It was one of my worst in-person dealer experiences and I avoided his booth thereafter.

POV or no, I still don't buy it. They're both Boardies, and that's what this is about. Saying one of them wasn't a Boardie yesterday but is today? Seems silly to me.

 

It's not my fault the rules were written up and interpreted that way.

 

Within the "letter of the law", and how it has been interpreted, Pov's view on the matter is the prevailing view.

 

Perhaps we need to form more committees to muddle up the probation process even more than it is getting.

I'm not blaming you and I'm not asking for any committees. I just don't buy it.

 

EDIT: removed the :shrug: That fella's become way too passive aggressive.

 

Great Speedy, why don't you share your rules with us so we can follow along...

 

Alls y'all gotta do is say "Yes, Speedy!" and all will go smoothly, chum.

[Athaxto-migration]

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

 

I didn't ever buy Court's book. Big difference. Using your example, I was in line at the checkout at Best Buy, but I decided to put the TV back on the shelf and buy elsewhere. As a consumer, that's my right to do so.

 

All this boils down to is sour grapes. Court is upset that his sale went elsewhere, and he's burning me on these boards because of it.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Athaxto

[Athaxto-migration]

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

The eBay transaction was never completed. That's my point. I found a better offer before I made the purchase, and I acted on it.

[Speedy-D]

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

The eBay transaction was never completed. That's my point. I found a better offer before I made the purchase, and I acted on it.

Does that mean you accepted the counter offer, but didn't finish the Paypal checkout?

[jsilverjanet]

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

 

The book (listed as a "last one") was still for a "buy now" sale on EBay for 12+ hours time after I received the invoice. At what point does the seller acknowledge a "locked-in" deal and remove it so others can't buy the last one?

 

Both Court and I are at fault for not pulling the trigger. If he had ended the Ebay sale after I asked for the invoice (he had a long time to do so but never did), none of this would have happened.

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

I believe this deal was done on the side via paypal. buyer made an offer on ebay via the messages, seller agreed to sell at that price. buyer requested invoice.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2014 by jsilverjanet

[CAHokie]

In situations like this I say we go with the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter of the law. There may be loopholes to get him out of being nominated by the letter but no matter what he broke it in spirit. It is just a short 30 Day probation right? I would say that I doubt he realized what he was doing board wise. As a new member that has already ruffled feathers on his first post he should be willing to take that 30 days with no complaint.

What 30 days are you talking about? The PL does not have a 30 day time limit ... there's 30 after a transaction begins before a Boardie can be nominated, but once on the list you stay there until you make good.

 

Yep, sorry Speedy, I missread that part.

I should hope so! A misreading like that'll get you on the list right quick!

 

I am just unfamiliar with the list because I am a seller's dream on these boards

[jaybuck43]

No athaxto its not. You've agreed to the sale. You had a contract for sale (he agreed to sell you the book at x cost, you agreed to pay that cost) Thats a sale. You burned yourself.

[crassus]

 

No, none of this wouldn't have happened if you didn't decide to back out of a deal. You had a deal with Court. You found out someone had a cheaper deal (it happens to everyone) and you broke your deal to buy it elsewhere. Its on you, not your lack of knowing that Court was a member.

 

The book (listed as a "last one") was still for a "buy now" sale on EBay for 12+ hours time after I received the invoice. At what point does the seller acknowledge a "locked-in" deal and remove it so others can't buy the last one?

 

Both Court and I are at fault for not pulling the trigger. If he had ended the Ebay sale after I asked for the invoice (he had a long time to do so but never did), none of this would have happened.

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

 

Nicely put. This would be my view also.

[Athaxto-migration]

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

The eBay transaction was never completed. That's my point. I found a better offer before I made the purchase, and I acted on it.

Does that mean you accepted the counter offer, but didn't finish the Paypal checkout?

 

No. There was no formal acceptance via eBay. I never accepted the PayPal invoice because the book was still listed for sale on eBay many hours after I asked for an invoice, I assumed the deal wasn't officially done.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Athaxto

[jsilverjanet]

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

 

I didn't ever buy Court's book. Big difference. Using your example, I was in line at the checkout at Best Buy, but I decided to put the TV back on the shelf and buy elsewhere. As a consumer, that's my right to do so.

 

All this boils down to is sour grapes. Court is upset that his sale went elsewhere, and he's burning me on these boards because of it.

 

let try to explain it this way as I think the Best Buy analogy has muddied it.

 

On this board, if you say "I'll take it" "I'll buy it" or in your case "invoice me" that means you have made a binding agreement to buy the book, whether the transaction was at a comic convention, a local yard sale, on ebay or here. you agreed to buy the book, not paying for it is a different matter all together.

[Speedy-D]

I'm not feeling as stringent about this as jaybuck43 obviously is, but I'd say you're gonna find yourself on the PL of the best place to buy comics, and you should avoid that if possible. Buy the comic, you wanted it yesterday, and leave yourself open to an excellent marketplace that will look out for you in the future just as it's looking out for jjeanius right now.

[Speedy-D]

 

No he is not. Just because he doesn't pull the listing does not affect your sale in the least bit. If I came later and bought the book on eBay, that is MY problem with Court, not yours. You agreed to a deal. His advertising it as being sold or not means nothing to your deal. If I go into Best Buy and they advertise that they are having Closeout deals and they have one TV left and I buy it, and they don't take down the listing, that doesn't relieve my duty to pay or their duty to deliver.

 

I didn't ever buy Court's book. Big difference. Using your example, I was in line at the checkout at Best Buy, but I decided to put the TV back on the shelf and buy elsewhere. As a consumer, that's my right to do so.

 

All this boils down to is sour grapes. Court is upset that his sale went elsewhere, and he's burning me on these boards because of it.

 

let try to explain it this way as I think the Best Buy analogy has muddied it.

 

On this board, if you say "I'll take it" "I'll buy it" or in your case "invoice me" that means you have made a binding agreement to buy the book, whether the transaction was at a comic convention, a local yard sale, on ebay or here. you agreed to buy the book, not paying for it is a different matter all together.

Word.

[Athaxto-migration]

No athaxto its not. You've agreed to the sale. You had a contract for sale (he agreed to sell you the book at x cost, you agreed to pay that cost) Thats a sale. You burned yourself.

 

Again, using your example, I never signed the contract. If I had accepted the PayPal invoice only to then cancel it, THEN there might be a contract issue there to be upset about.

 

But I never accepted his PayPal invoice, no money was sent, no book was ever sold to me, thus no deal was formally struck.

 

I work in contracts all day long.

[oakman29]

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

The eBay transaction was never completed. That's my point. I found a better offer before I made the purchase, and I acted on it.

Does that mean you accepted the counter offer, but didn't finish the Paypal checkout?

 

No. There was no formal acceptance via eBay. I never accepted the PayPal invoice because the book was still listed for sale on eBay many hours after I asked for an invoice, I assumed the deal wasn't officially done.

It's done when you hit the BIN or win the bid,then you requested the invoice to be sent to you.Am I missing something?

Edited January 4, 2014 by oakman29

[jsilverjanet]

I'm not feeling as stringent about this as jaybuck43 obviously is, but I'd say you're gonna find yourself on the PL of the best place to buy comics, and you should avoid that if possible. Buy the comic, you wanted it yesterday, and leave yourself open to an excellent marketplace that will look out for you in the future just as it's looking out for jjeanius right now.

 

for the money you'll be saving in the long term, whatever the difference is between the price today vs the one from yesterday is pennies.

 

I buy here and on ebay. The difference is quality and prices has me spending about 90% of my money here vs 10% on eBay.

[Speedy-D]

If an eBay transaction is completed, isn't the listing automatically closed? It's not up to the seller to close it. I don't get that part.

 

The eBay transaction was never completed. That's my point. I found a better offer before I made the purchase, and I acted on it.

Does that mean you accepted the counter offer, but didn't finish the Paypal checkout?

 

No. There was no formal acceptance via eBay. I never accepted the PayPal invoice because the book was still listed for sale on eBay many hours after I asked for an invoice, I assumed the deal wasn't officially done.

It's done when you hit the BIN

There was no BIN, it was done outside of eBay.

[comix4fun]

To nominate him, you must give him 30 days to make the situation right. In other words, if he is wanting and willing to buy the book from you, he should be able to. Otherwise, there would be no way for him to get off the list.

 

No matter which way it goes though, it will still be 30 days before he can be nominated for the list.

 

 

That's not entirely true. A documented response repudiating the deal will serve as a his decision to "not make the situation right". There's no need to wait if an answer is given that he will not perform.

[Athaxto-migration]

let try to explain it this way as I think the Best Buy analogy has muddied it.

 

On this board, if you say "I'll take it" "I'll buy it" or in your case "invoice me" that means you have made a binding agreement to buy the book, whether the transaction was at a comic convention, a local yard sale, on ebay or here. you agreed to buy the book, not paying for it is a different matter all together.

 

And on "this board," I did actually pay for the book that I said "I'll take" when I sent money to Hulk.

 

Again, had I known that Court was a member here and that his eBay OFFER would mean the same thing, I would have done things differently.

[ItsJustRyan]

 

Sounds cut and dry to me