PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Iceman399]

I'm not the right person, ...I'm the person who always wrote my 10 page papers in 5;)

 

I'd suggest

 

This person is on the probation list, or is a Hall of Shame Member. Please view this link before purchasing....

 

However, since I'm not sure what link we'd use...that probably won't work;) So maybe someone can do it better?

 

THEN we have to (that's the closest I could get to a begging gremlin;)

Arch.

 

There was talk of having the PL/HOS members have a link beside their name to the transgression that got them there in the first place.

 

I think the idea of a -script posting a link warning them and have the link take them to the PL/HOS link which they can easily find X and why X is on the list.

[mikenyc]

I have seen multiple situations when PL members run sales threads and a member reminds them they are on the PL.

 

The only reason that the mods are in punishment mode is because of the new crop of clowns who don't know when to leave their brilliant and just ideas in their noodles and not post in others sales threads.

 

They are making a point and I'm glad. Let them eat cake.

[comix4fun]

I have seen multiple situations when PL members run sales threads and a member reminds them they are on the PL.

 

The only reason that the mods are in punishment mode is because of the new crop of clowns who don't know when to leave their brilliant and just ideas in their noodles and not post in others sales threads.

 

They are making a point and I'm glad. Let them eat cake.

 

 

True...however, we don't want someone who's making note of a HOS or PL sales thread to get caught in the nuts of the current draconian crackdown.

[Bio-Rupp]

I'm not sure more lists are the answer.

 

First of all, someone gets off the probation list by correcting an action. Why would we want to punish them by putting them on some other list?

 

What would be the incentive to correct the action?

 

When someone screws up a 2nd and then a 3rd time, they are fodder for the HOS.

 

Three strikes...HOS.

 

I suggested a long time ago that we ask for custom titles for people on the list, but it didn't seem to go anywhere with the mods.

 

Remember, that Arch wants us to take care of the sales forum.

 

I think the answer is...someone who buys something here, needs to do some homework. It's no more Shangri-La than eBay is.

 

We have kudos threads and a search engine. I find when I'm thinking of buying from someone new that looking at their past posts will give me somewhat of a clue.

 

 

All good points.

 

Maybe another answer is amnesty from threadcrap punishment if a HOS/PL member runs a sales thread which would allow a tasteful, tactful, posting of information regarding that members problems.

 

 

Do you mean add it to the sales rules like the rules template? If someone could write something up, I'd suggest that a few of us send Arch a group pm and ask if he'll allow that.

 

I'd be willing to start a group pm if someone came up with a simple template.

 

I really hate seeing thread crapping strikes. In many cases people are trying to help, but it's probably hard to sort those out from the turkeys.

 

Yes, something along those lines. Letting people know that a seller is a PL or HOS member is a public service. If it's done right, and not excessively, in the thread it's a positive.

Back when someone got a strike for threadkrapping a PL/HOS seller's thread - I did a couple templates up. I also asked did a poll to try and get a sense of how the community thought we (and/or the mods) should handle a PL/HOS member who actively sells here....it didn't get many votes or interest.

 

POV pretty much dumped on it with..."it's unenforcable" & the thread moved on to Rupp chasing some guy down for two dollars...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=108883&Number=6629158#Post6629158

 

... you're right in that it probably cost me $2 in internet usage just to type that

[Bosco685]

I'm not sure more lists are the answer.

 

First of all, someone gets off the probation list by correcting an action. Why would we want to punish them by putting them on some other list?

 

What would be the incentive to correct the action?

 

When someone screws up a 2nd and then a 3rd time, they are fodder for the HOS.

 

Three strikes...HOS.

 

I suggested a long time ago that we ask for custom titles for people on the list, but it didn't seem to go anywhere with the mods.

 

Remember, that Arch wants us to take care of the sales forum.

 

I think the answer is...someone who buys something here, needs to do some homework. It's no more Shangri-La than eBay is.

 

We have kudos threads and a search engine. I find when I'm thinking of buying from someone new that looking at their past posts will give me somewhat of a clue.

 

 

All good points.

 

Maybe another answer is amnesty from threadcrap punishment if a HOS/PL member runs a sales thread which would allow a tasteful, tactful, posting of information regarding that members problems.

 

 

Do you mean add it to the sales rules like the rules template? If someone could write something up, I'd suggest that a few of us send Arch a group pm and ask if he'll allow that.

 

I'd be willing to start a group pm if someone came up with a simple template.

 

I really hate seeing thread crapping strikes. In many cases people are trying to help, but it's probably hard to sort those out from the turkeys.

 

Yes, something along those lines. Letting people know that a seller is a PL or HOS member is a public service. If it's done right, and not excessively, in the thread it's a positive.

Back when someone got a strike for threadkrapping a PL/HOS seller's thread - I did a couple templates up. I also asked did a poll to try and get a sense of how the community thought we (and/or the mods) should handle a PL/HOS member who actively sells here....it didn't get many votes or interest.

 

POV pretty much dumped on it with..."it's unenforcable" & the thread moved on to Rupp chasing some guy down for two dollars...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=108883&Number=6629158#Post6629158

 

I like Sha's suggestion, and would be willing to help out.

 

Last week, I used a template message Baba drafted to warn someone. I ran it by Arch and CCGmod0 for feedback. Arch felt there was enough warning already by the list existing, and was against a warning message. So it would be good that the both of them hear from a small group.

[comix4fun]

I'm not sure more lists are the answer.

 

First of all, someone gets off the probation list by correcting an action. Why would we want to punish them by putting them on some other list?

 

What would be the incentive to correct the action?

 

When someone screws up a 2nd and then a 3rd time, they are fodder for the HOS.

 

Three strikes...HOS.

 

I suggested a long time ago that we ask for custom titles for people on the list, but it didn't seem to go anywhere with the mods.

 

Remember, that Arch wants us to take care of the sales forum.

 

I think the answer is...someone who buys something here, needs to do some homework. It's no more Shangri-La than eBay is.

 

We have kudos threads and a search engine. I find when I'm thinking of buying from someone new that looking at their past posts will give me somewhat of a clue.

 

 

All good points.

 

Maybe another answer is amnesty from threadcrap punishment if a HOS/PL member runs a sales thread which would allow a tasteful, tactful, posting of information regarding that members problems.

 

 

Do you mean add it to the sales rules like the rules template? If someone could write something up, I'd suggest that a few of us send Arch a group pm and ask if he'll allow that.

 

I'd be willing to start a group pm if someone came up with a simple template.

 

I really hate seeing thread crapping strikes. In many cases people are trying to help, but it's probably hard to sort those out from the turkeys.

 

Yes, something along those lines. Letting people know that a seller is a PL or HOS member is a public service. If it's done right, and not excessively, in the thread it's a positive.

Back when someone got a strike for threadkrapping a PL/HOS seller's thread - I did a couple templates up. I also asked did a poll to try and get a sense of how the community thought we (and/or the mods) should handle a PL/HOS member who actively sells here....it didn't get many votes or interest.

 

POV pretty much dumped on it with..."it's unenforcable" & the thread moved on to Rupp chasing some guy down for two dollars...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=108883&Number=6629158#Post6629158

 

 

I think the "unenforceable" part from banning them from doing business, not making the notation in their sales thread.

 

Here's your post...the poll you included about banning them from dealing in the forums doesn't show up.

 

I think the language is great.

 

A discussion came up about recent warnings and strikes given out for threadcrapping so perhaps a generic template (similar to the rules posts), can be discussed & implemented into the rules by Arch so we have an acceptable form of threadcrapping when a seller is currently on the Probation/Hall of Shame lists.

 

Any thoughts on this draft?

 

This is written to forbid any public business by the PL/HOS nominee, there is disagreement in the forum and some treat the PL/HOS as only a community warning - options are outlined - SEE POLL (closes April 29th)

 

Hello Forum Seller (by moderator request)

 

Welcome back to the "Comics Market - Forum Only Selling" board!

 

The moderators have asked everyone here to actively help educate and inform both new comers and long time members - this forum maintains a Probation List and Hall of Shame and your name is on it!! The discussions surrounding your addition to this list can be found here:

(link to nomination POST - not page - do this by finding a response then clicking the "respond to" name to open new window/tab for URL to copy)

 

As a courtesy to fellow board members this has been posted in your sales thread to warn potential buyers that you have failed to complete one or more transactions on these forums with other members, you were added to the (PL/HOS) on (date)

 

You can also find a list of rules, that you are expected to follow when selling here:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1460472&page=1#Post1460472

 

They are well worth reading, as a courtesy they are shared here and you are urged to reconcile outstanding matters to restore your good standing in the community.

 

You may still attract buyers with your thread, who will choose to do business with you privately but your current standing in the community precludes you from buying or selling publicly in the marketplace. Nothing in this notification forbids those who wish to do business with you privately from doing so. Good luck to those buyers who choose to risk wasting their time and/or money with you.

 

Thanks !

 

 

[comix4fun]

I'm not sure more lists are the answer.

 

First of all, someone gets off the probation list by correcting an action. Why would we want to punish them by putting them on some other list?

 

What would be the incentive to correct the action?

 

When someone screws up a 2nd and then a 3rd time, they are fodder for the HOS.

 

Three strikes...HOS.

 

I suggested a long time ago that we ask for custom titles for people on the list, but it didn't seem to go anywhere with the mods.

 

Remember, that Arch wants us to take care of the sales forum.

 

I think the answer is...someone who buys something here, needs to do some homework. It's no more Shangri-La than eBay is.

 

We have kudos threads and a search engine. I find when I'm thinking of buying from someone new that looking at their past posts will give me somewhat of a clue.

 

 

All good points.

 

Maybe another answer is amnesty from threadcrap punishment if a HOS/PL member runs a sales thread which would allow a tasteful, tactful, posting of information regarding that members problems.

 

 

Do you mean add it to the sales rules like the rules template? If someone could write something up, I'd suggest that a few of us send Arch a group pm and ask if he'll allow that.

 

I'd be willing to start a group pm if someone came up with a simple template.

 

I really hate seeing thread crapping strikes. In many cases people are trying to help, but it's probably hard to sort those out from the turkeys.

 

Yes, something along those lines. Letting people know that a seller is a PL or HOS member is a public service. If it's done right, and not excessively, in the thread it's a positive.

Back when someone got a strike for threadkrapping a PL/HOS seller's thread - I did a couple templates up. I also asked did a poll to try and get a sense of how the community thought we (and/or the mods) should handle a PL/HOS member who actively sells here....it didn't get many votes or interest.

 

POV pretty much dumped on it with..."it's unenforcable" & the thread moved on to Rupp chasing some guy down for two dollars...

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=108883&Number=6629158#Post6629158

 

I like Sha's suggestion, and would be willing to help out.

 

Last week, I used a template message Baba drafted to warn someone. I ran it by Arch and CCGmod0 for feedback. Arch felt there was enough warning already by the list existing, and was against a warning message. So it would be good that the both of them hear from a small group.

 

 

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

[bababooey]

I have seen multiple situations when PL members run sales threads and a member reminds them they are on the PL.

 

The only reason that the mods are in punishment mode is because of the new crop of clowns who don't know when to leave their brilliant and just ideas in their noodles and not post in others sales threads.

 

They are making a point and I'm glad. Let them eat cake.

 

I don't have a problem with threadkrapping strikes when people are being jerks but if it's going to be mod enforced it should be a written rule not an unwritten community standard - that's why even n00bs who pay attention to the rules get strikes because most of them are just emulating the banter that takes place in other areas of the forum.

There was also uneven enforcement at the time coupled with some questions being raised about what the PL/HOS meant - could they sell publicly/privately or not at all...?

 

My solution was to suggest a written rule & create a user template for posting in a HOS/PL sales thread. Did you click the link?

 

[Bosco685]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

[Iceman399]

I think the "warning" needs to clearly state they are on the PL/HOS and this doesn't mean they can't sell but they have been there for wronging the community.

[bababooey]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

So you guys don't think that threadkrapping someone's sales thread should be a clearly stated marketplace guideline in Arch's rules?

 

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

Edited January 14, 2014 by bababooey

[Jimmy Linguini]

I think the "warning" needs to clearly state they are on the PL/HOS and this doesn't mean they can't sell but they have been there for wronging the community.

 

When you start treating certain board members (PL / HOS Members) differently from others (non PL / HOS) its bad news.

 

There is no point in writing a heads up in someones thread unless its to upset them or create drama.

 

[Bosco685]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

So you guys don't think that threadkrapping someone's sales thread should be a clearly stated marketplace guideline in Arch's rules?

 

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

1) There should be a rule allowing for warning of someone's HOS-PL membership. Otherwise, you run the risk of a strike.

 

2) I used your short version last week, which pointed out the community was divided on selling to HOS-PL members. I like that one. Short, professional, and not an attack. Just a warning message.

[comix4fun]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

So you guys don't think that threadkrapping someone's sales thread should be a clearly stated marketplace guideline in Arch's rules?

 

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

 

 

It would be good to add that to the guidelines, it's already in the general board guidelines (thread disruption) but putting in the sales area would make it clear.

 

If we can add allowance for posts regarding HOS and PL to the marketplace guidelines it would be a good thing and prevent good folks with good intentions from getting strikes.

[EC ed]

I would think that most people wouldn't like being on a list that had a negative connotation, but if it's deserved, I wouldn't worry about their feelings too much.

 

There would be really nothing to enforce per se, it would just be list to warn people that if you deal with said person it might not go smoothly as they have a history.

 

This thing wouldn't need to be structured as a "scarlet letter" list that people are "added" to. It would accomplish the same end if we just kept the institutional memory of the probation list historical activity in an easy to access summarized location. That is, simply keep a documented "list" of probation list removals. Simply something like this:

 

PROBATION LIST REMOVALS

 

1/17/05 Boardie X was removed from the PL

3/24/05 Boardie Y was removed from the PL

7/18/06 Boardie Z was removed from the PL

9/27/07 Boardie X was removed from the PL

 

Stickie this thing at the top of the discussion area, just next to the thread that contains the actual PL. If this was easy to access, it would be trivial for me to see that Boardie X has been on the PL twice, and I can use that information as I see fit. Tough to argue with simply trying to summarize instutional history. This wouldn't have the connotation of putting someone on a list, but the info is there nonetheless.

 

I agree, it would be hard to object to the existence of a list such as this, which merely restates existing facts. If the list were ordered alphabetically rather than by date it would achieve the objective, yes?

 

 

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

Back on this idea for a minute...I just spent some time going back through the PL thread starting at its inception in October 2007, and started compiling a spreadsheet of all the PL removals...so far, made it through the first 50 pages (roughly the beginning of 2010). Here's what it would look like through that point (of course, we could format this better, sort it by name, etc., but you get the idea...):

 

PROBATION LIST REMOVALS (THROUGH 12/31/09)

Boardie18 added 10/22/2007 was removed 10/25/2007 ( 3 days on PL)

Boardie7 added 10/22/2007 was removed 10/25/2007 ( 3 days on PL)

Boardie13 added 12/7/2007 was removed 1/16/2008 ( 40 days on PL)

Boardie20 added 2/2/2008 was removed 2/6/2008 ( 4 days on PL)

Boardie27 added 2/14/2008 was removed 2/14/2008 ( 0 days on PL)

Boardie25 added 2/2/2008 was removed 2/20/2008 ( 18 days on PL)

Boardie16 added 11/7/2007 was removed 2/20/2008 ( 105 days on PL)

Boardie6 added 5/5/2008 was removed 5/6/2008 ( 1 days on PL)

Boardie32 added 10/18/2007 was removed 5/20/2008 ( 215 days on PL)

Boardie33 added 12/7/2007 was removed 5/22/2008 ( 167 days on PL)

Boardie39 added 2/21/2008 was removed 8/9/2008 ( 170 days on PL)

Boardie24 added 8/9/2007 was removed 8/16/2008 ( 373 days on PL)

Boardie3 added 9/19/2008 was removed 11/8/2008 ( 50 days on PL)

Boardie21 added 12/9/2008 was removed 12/30/2008 ( 21 days on PL)

Boardie44 added 3/12/2009 was removed 3/12/2009 ( 0 days on PL)

Boardie11 added 10/12/2008 was removed 4/9/2009 ( 179 days on PL)

Boardie9 added 5/10/2009 was removed 6/2/2009 ( 23 days on PL)

Boardie6 added 5/21/2009 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 36 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie10 added 10/28/2008 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 241 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie17 added 11/5/2008 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 233 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie19 added 3/27/2007 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 822 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie40 added 6/2/2009 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 24 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie2 added 5/23/2008 was removed 6/26/2009 ( 399 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie9 added 7/19/2009 was removed 8/12/2009 ( 24 days on PL)

Boardie26 added 11/4/2009 was removed 11/5/2009 ( 1 days on PL)

Boardie2 added 3/24/2009 was removed 11/27/2009 ( 248 days on PL) *moved to HOS

Boardie45 added 11/4/2009 was removed 12/8/2009 ( 34 days on PL)

Boardie43 added 12/15/2009 was removed 12/15/2009 ( 0 days on PL)

 

 

Potentially useful? If so, I'll continue....

 

EDIT (1/17/14): I edited out actual Boardie names from this list. Until such time that the community decides definitively whether and how we want to make this information accessible, I thought it would be better to return this to anonymity, to avoid any negative connotations that might arise. This information exists in raw form out in the Probation List thread, if anyone chooses to access it for whatever reason.

Edited January 17, 2014 by edowens71

[comix4fun]

I think the "warning" needs to clearly state they are on the PL/HOS and this doesn't mean they can't sell but they have been there for wronging the community.

 

When you start treating certain board members (PL / HOS Members) differently from others (non PL / HOS) its bad news.

 

There is no point in writing a heads up in someones thread unless its to upset them or create drama.

 

 

Except for the fact that the PL and HOS members MADE themselves different through their own actions.

 

No one is treating people differently arbitrarily, these are people who have done wrong in the community and letting people know what they've done isn't "treating them differently" it's informing others what they've done.

 

If people don't want people posting that they are in the PL list in their thread I suggest they stay off the PL list.

[bababooey]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

So you guys don't think that threadkrapping someone's sales thread should be a clearly stated marketplace guideline in Arch's rules?

 

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

 

 

It would be good to add that to the guidelines, it's already in the general board guidelines (thread disruption) but putting in the sales area would make it clear.

 

If we can add allowance for posts regarding HOS and PL to the marketplace guidelines it would be a good thing and prevent good folks with good intentions from getting strikes.

"Thread disruption" IS in the general user guidelines & it is done every day outside the marketplace, it draws strikes when it takes place in the marketplace which is why it makes sense to add a no threadkrapping rule of some sort (added to the 1 to 13 marketplace rules)

Sample:

 

14. Thread disruption contrary to a seller's wishes is subject to moderator action; a single warning may be posted in the thread if a party is on one of the community lists

 

[comix4fun]

Maybe the longer post Baba put forward was too much or too long then.

 

Maybe having it be another in the long list of forum guidelines is the way to go. One sentence with a short link to the list.

 

I think that may be the right path to go down.

So you guys don't think that threadkrapping someone's sales thread should be a clearly stated marketplace guideline in Arch's rules?

 

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

 

 

It would be good to add that to the guidelines, it's already in the general board guidelines (thread disruption) but putting in the sales area would make it clear.

 

If we can add allowance for posts regarding HOS and PL to the marketplace guidelines it would be a good thing and prevent good folks with good intentions from getting strikes.

"Thread disruption" IS in the general user guidelines & it is done every day outside the marketplace, it draws strikes when it takes place in the marketplace which is why it makes sense to add a no threadkrapping rule of some sort (added to the 1 to 13 marketplace rules)

Sample:

 

14. Thread disruption contrary to a seller's wishes is subject to moderator action; a single warning may be posted in the thread if a party is on one of the community lists

 

 

 

That's a good option.

[Bosco685]

Also, the second template (a few posts down in that link) was the better one.

 

edit - the point was to find the line between threadkrapping & warning the community

 

If you wish to do business with ENTER HOS-PL NAME while he is on the PL/HOS that is your choice. The community is somewhat divided on whether people should or should not "do business" with PL/HOS listers when others are owed money or goods. Whether you do business with that person is your choice. The PL/HOS serves as a warning, and should you run into an issue when doing business, a nomination of an active HOS/PL member will not help you resolve it.

[bababooey]

Potentially useful? If so, I'll continue....

I would leave it alone.

Let Logan make his own spreadsheetz...