PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[slym2none]

Does someone have a link to the vote? The only one I could find was Jimmy nominating himself for the PL ( I voted yes ).

 

The nominator deleted the poll/post.

 

 

 

-slym

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

He lacks the self respect to do the decent thing and leave on his own. Instead he has chosen to effectively flip the bird at the entire board with his poor attitude.

 

I'm reminded of this.

[DR.X]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

He lacks the self respect to do the decent thing and leave on his own. Instead he has chosen to effectively flip the bird at the entire board with his poor attitude.

 

 

 

I'm reminded of this.

 

 

What a little twit he was. He showed us, didn't he.

[Logan510]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

Money and cool books.

 

So many here have given up every ounce of integrity or sense of decency in the pursuit of both. It is shameful and embarrassing but hey, at least some despicable people can have friends on the internets because they sell cool books.

 

Not really a community I am feeling I want to be associated with all that much and that is sad.

 

I agree, but I like to think the majority of the community feels the same way and will continue to let a good deal pass by before giving up their integrity.

 

You've only been here a year, give it time.

[porcupine48]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

He lacks the self respect to do the decent thing and leave on his own. Instead he has chosen to effectively flip the bird at the entire board with his poor attitude.

 

 

 

I'm reminded of this.

 

 

What a little twit he was. He showed us, didn't he.

did he not win the cookie making competition?Flame throwed them,no?

[Bosco685]

I still sell. I still buy. the HOS Scarlet Letter has little to no effect

 

 

Try to sell anything publicly. Oh, wait, you did that once... and how did it go?

 

Little effect my .

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

 

That was definitely a unique experience to behold.

 

[Number 6]

Forgive me, but I don't think I understand the premise of the HOS as well as I thought I did.

 

The PL is for specific transaction(s) that can be remedied by the offending party. The HOS is for a consistent pattern of egregious behavior.

 

But what constitutes egregious? Several veteran members consistently use the phrase "worst of the worst". But that's equally vague.

 

In this discussion, "worst of the worst" is defined as stealing and threats of physical violence. But aren't those banning offenses? So if the behavior that qualifies a member for the HOS is the same as that which would get them banned, doesn't that make the HOS nomination a bit pointless?

 

My understanding is that, in practical terms, the HOS nomination really doesn't do anything to the offending party. They are neither restricted being a member, posting or even conducting sales. As far a I can tell, the HOS simply serves as a cautionary tool for those who choose to avail themselves of it (and many don't).

 

When I see members who seem eager to nominate offenders to the HOS and veterans who consistently take exception to these nominations as "not being serious enough" and then I reflect on the actual consequences of the HOS (or lack thereof) I have to wonder if both sides perhaps have an exaggerated view of the seriousness of the HOS.

 

I have read several comments from members hypothesizing about a punishment in between the PL and HOS. This assumes that the HOS is the most serious punishment the community can hand out.

 

But again, if the qualifying offenses for the HOS are also merit banning, doesn't that make banning by the administration the most serious punishment? Could the HOS be the "in-between" punishment everyone's been seeking?

 

Some have suggested that as long as a person is willing to "make it right" they don't qualify for the HOS. But Beerbohn, after months of stalling, finally shipped $3000 worth of pulps. Does that mean he gets to come off? Even though his banned?

 

I'm not trying to be snarky or start an argument. I genuinely asking. I'm relatively new here and I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the community originally intended when they created the HOS.

 

We can't ban members. We can ask to have someone banned, but it's not something we have ANY control over. Many times we won't even get an answer, so HOS remains the highest level that we as boarders can use to sanction someone.

 

I guess from my experience in management, I've learned to try to solve things using the lowest level possible, saving the highest levels of punishment (in my case firing someone) for the worst of the worst. It sets a tone for others. If you fire a whole bunch of people for medium minor stuff, you will just upset others in the group, even when that was not your intention.

 

If we had the authority to ban, we'd have a stronger layer, but we don't have that authority.

 

I'm not going to argue against his being there now. It's fine, I think I was trying to agree that we have been using it a little more liberally than before and I'd like to keep it a strong condemnation.

 

With the continuing attitude he's shown, I am perfectly fine with him being on the list and I apologize for mentioning him and not speaking in general. I was wrong.

 

I just want to clarify in case I misspoke: I'm not advocating the banning of all HOS transgressors.

 

My understanding is that some of the "worst of the worst" HOSers are also coincidently banned.

 

I was just wondering if it's productive to set the threshold for wrongdoing too high as it seemed at that level the administration steps in.

 

But I see what you're saying, that's not a guaranteed outcome.

[etanick]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

Money and cool books.

 

So many here have given up every ounce of integrity or sense of decency in the pursuit of both. It is shameful and embarrassing but hey, at least some despicable people can have friends on the internets because they sell cool books.

 

Not really a community I am feeling I want to be associated with all that much and that is sad.

 

I agree, but I like to think the majority of the community feels the same way and will continue to let a good deal pass by before giving up their integrity.

 

You've only been here a year, give it time.

 

true dat!

 

there is no shortage of modern variant collectors that will line up to buy from Symbiotic via PM even if he declared "I am done". Heck they have no problem buying from him openly if he starts a sale thread right now. The mantra here is "hey, as long as you haven't screw me, you are COOL...with me...so screw someone else and I am fine"

 

 

[skypinkblu]

Forgive me, but I don't think I understand the premise of the HOS as well as I thought I did.

 

The PL is for specific transaction(s) that can be remedied by the offending party. The HOS is for a consistent pattern of egregious behavior.

 

But what constitutes egregious? Several veteran members consistently use the phrase "worst of the worst". But that's equally vague.

 

In this discussion, "worst of the worst" is defined as stealing and threats of physical violence. But aren't those banning offenses? So if the behavior that qualifies a member for the HOS is the same as that which would get them banned, doesn't that make the HOS nomination a bit pointless?

 

My understanding is that, in practical terms, the HOS nomination really doesn't do anything to the offending party. They are neither restricted being a member, posting or even conducting sales. As far a I can tell, the HOS simply serves as a cautionary tool for those who choose to avail themselves of it (and many don't).

 

When I see members who seem eager to nominate offenders to the HOS and veterans who consistently take exception to these nominations as "not being serious enough" and then I reflect on the actual consequences of the HOS (or lack thereof) I have to wonder if both sides perhaps have an exaggerated view of the seriousness of the HOS.

 

I have read several comments from members hypothesizing about a punishment in between the PL and HOS. This assumes that the HOS is the most serious punishment the community can hand out.

 

But again, if the qualifying offenses for the HOS are also merit banning, doesn't that make banning by the administration the most serious punishment? Could the HOS be the "in-between" punishment everyone's been seeking?

 

Some have suggested that as long as a person is willing to "make it right" they don't qualify for the HOS. But Beerbohn, after months of stalling, finally shipped $3000 worth of pulps. Does that mean he gets to come off? Even though his banned?

 

I'm not trying to be snarky or start an argument. I genuinely asking. I'm relatively new here and I'm just trying to wrap my head around what the community originally intended when they created the HOS.

 

We can't ban members. We can ask to have someone banned, but it's not something we have ANY control over. Many times we won't even get an answer, so HOS remains the highest level that we as boarders can use to sanction someone.

 

I guess from my experience in management, I've learned to try to solve things using the lowest level possible, saving the highest levels of punishment (in my case firing someone) for the worst of the worst. It sets a tone for others. If you fire a whole bunch of people for medium minor stuff, you will just upset others in the group, even when that was not your intention.

 

If we had the authority to ban, we'd have a stronger layer, but we don't have that authority.

 

I'm not going to argue against his being there now. It's fine, I think I was trying to agree that we have been using it a little more liberally than before and I'd like to keep it a strong condemnation.

 

With the continuing attitude he's shown, I am perfectly fine with him being on the list and I apologize for mentioning him and not speaking in general. I was wrong.

 

I just want to clarify in case I misspoke: I'm not advocating the banning of all HOS transgressors.

 

My understanding is that some of the "worst of the worst" HOSers are also coincidently banned.

 

I was just wondering if it's productive to set the threshold for wrongdoing too high as it seemed at that level the administration steps in.

 

But I see what you're saying, that's not a guaranteed outcome.

 

When CGC allowed the marketplace, they added a caveat, that we would have to police ourselves. They wanted to allow board members to be able to sell and buy (which I think is a great thing), but didn't want to take on another job. I don't blame them.

 

This whole "police ourselves" thing, makes for some awkward moments, especially when occasional new people with totally selfish self serving attitudes show up.

 

The probation list emerged after some bad deals. The HOS was much later because the level of that bad deal was higher than any of the other infractions AND it was repetitive.

 

Most of those who were banned on that list, had shill IDs. But people have been banned for community disruption and attitudes that do not contribute in a positive way to the forum. SolarCadet could well become one of those people if he continues, whether he realizes it or not, but the mods do not like to step in unless it's something we bring to them and it's bad. Even then, it's their call, not ours.

 

I understand their reluctance to police the forum, and I actually think it's a good thing. It most probably wouldn't be as much fun here, if they did.

 

Truth is, MOST of the sales are fine and fun. Most of the members are great people and considerate. Like anywhere else, it's the 1% lunatic fringe of the bad apples that you notice.

[Bosco685]

Truth is, MOST of the sales are fine and fun. Most of the members are great people and considerate. Like anywhere else, it's the 1% lunatic fringe of the bad apples that you notice.

 

Unfortunately, that 1% seems to keep growing.

 

Like late last year when that scammer showed up that went back through our sales history, copied old book links, and then pretended those books were his. Because they were underpriced, folks were jumping within minutes to post the TAKE IT before even checking why all the photos were taken on different backgrounds and lighting.

 

slickrickcomics - not that the name was a warning

 

Uhmmmm - anyone notice that book is owned by a board member?

[comix4fun]

Only the mods can stop me if I break rules. I'm here to stay and follow all rules and keep sourcing books.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have a question, why are you so eager to stay here?

 

 

He lacks the self respect to do the decent thing and leave on his own. Instead he has chosen to effectively flip the bird at the entire board with his poor attitude.

 

I'm reminded of this.

 

 

The original Crème brûlée eater!!!

[DR.X]

The original Crème brûlée eater!!!

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

The original Crème brûlée eater!!!

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

 

 

Just try and make him not order the most expensive dinner on the menu, cap it off with dessert and then wait until someone else picks up the check for the whole thing, just try.

[porcupine48]

"cap" it off....

[skypinkblu]

Truth is, MOST of the sales are fine and fun. Most of the members are great people and considerate. Like anywhere else, it's the 1% lunatic fringe of the bad apples that you notice.

 

Unfortunately, that 1% seems to keep growing.

 

Like late last year when that scammer showed up that went back through our sales history, copied old book links, and then pretended those books were his. Because they were underpriced, folks were jumping within minutes to post the TAKE IT before even checking why all the photos were taken on different backgrounds and lighting.

 

slickrickcomics - not that the name was a warning

 

Uhmmmm - anyone notice that book is owned by a board member?

 

I disagree...we have 80 zillion threads about bad eBay experiences and bad board experiences...why? Because when people get upset they complain. When people are happy, they smile, and they go on their merry way because they expected to be happy.

 

Check the Kudos thread, there are lots of nice things there.

 

I have said this again and again...you have to be prudent when you buy something. Do your homework, don't just grab a bargain.

 

Yes, there are bad actors, but a lot of the kvetching on these boards are repeats. The same issue being dragged up over and over again by the same people.

 

We need a little more cup half full thinking, rather than it's not only HALF empty, it tipped over last week and woe is me.

 

 

 

[joeypost]

Truth is, MOST of the sales are fine and fun. Most of the members are great people and considerate. Like anywhere else, it's the 1% lunatic fringe of the bad apples that you notice.

 

Unfortunately, that 1% seems to keep growing.

 

Like late last year when that scammer showed up that went back through our sales history, copied old book links, and then pretended those books were his. Because they were underpriced, folks were jumping within minutes to post the TAKE IT before even checking why all the photos were taken on different backgrounds and lighting.

 

slickrickcomics - not that the name was a warning

 

Uhmmmm - anyone notice that book is owned by a board member?

 

I disagree...we have 80 zillion threads about bad eBay experiences and bad board experiences...why? Because when people get upset they complain. When people are happy, they smile, and they go on their merry way because they expected to be happy.

 

Check the Kudos thread, there are lots of nice things there.

 

I have said this again and again...you have to be prudent when you buy something. Do your homework, don't just grab a bargain.

 

Yes, there are bad actors, but a lot of the kvetching on these boards are repeats. The same issue being dragged up over and over again by the same people.

 

We need a little more cup half full thinking, rather than it's not only HALF empty, it tipped over last week and woe is me.

 

 

 

kvetch (kvĕch) Slang

intr.v. kvetched, kvetch·ing, kvetch·es

To complain persistently and whiningly.

 

n.

1. A chronic, whining complainer.

 

2. A nagging complaint: "a rambling kvetch against the system" (Leonard Ross).

[skypinkblu]

I forget sometimes not everyone grew up in NY;) thanks!

[DR.X]

I forget sometimes not everyone grew up in NY;) thanks!

 

I thought you grew up in Boone Grove Indiana?

[Dick Pontoon]

Truth is, MOST of the sales are fine and fun. Most of the members are great people and considerate. Like anywhere else, it's the 1% lunatic fringe of the bad apples that you notice.

 

Unfortunately, that 1% seems to keep growing.

 

Like late last year when that scammer showed up that went back through our sales history, copied old book links, and then pretended those books were his. Because they were underpriced, folks were jumping within minutes to post the TAKE IT before even checking why all the photos were taken on different backgrounds and lighting.

 

slickrickcomics - not that the name was a warning

 

Uhmmmm - anyone notice that book is owned by a board member?

 

I disagree...we have 80 zillion threads about bad eBay experiences and bad board experiences...why? Because when people get upset they complain. When people are happy, they smile, and they go on their merry way because they expected to be happy.

 

Check the Kudos thread, there are lots of nice things there.

 

I have said this again and again...you have to be prudent when you buy something. Do your homework, don't just grab a bargain.

 

Yes, there are bad actors, but a lot of the kvetching on these boards are repeats. The same issue being dragged up over and over again by the same people.

 

We need a little more cup half full thinking, rather than it's not only HALF empty, it tipped over last week and woe is me.

 

 

 

This x 1,000. If folks bought a little more carefully we'd have a lot less tsuris.

[Bosco685]

I forget sometimes not everyone grew up in NY;) thanks!

 

Staten Island, and loads of positive here too.

 

But we still run across a slow growing crowd that sees the money that floats around here.

 

So nobody said "THE SKY IS FALLING AND THIS PLACE IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN NOW" though you may have read it that way.

 

It's knowing how to be careful when buying, and not jumping on the first low price for a hot book without a thought.