PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[bababooey]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

edit - some seller saying they want to "hold on to something" is most certainly a "no" - while it's true that many will negotiate using similar language - only the seller knows that for sure. His refusal to sell at full thread price is proof that he was NOT using this language to try to get more money from you.

 

 

Edited May 2, 2014 by bababooey

[techtre2003]

That all makes sense to me - Number 6

[Bosco685]

Sha thanks for your input as always but as an overzealous newb I have a serious question for the vets working so hard to keep the HoS "their way". What is the difference? I mean this with all due respect. Lets say we clean out the HoS so that only Alleybat and the big time cheats (btw we should define this, what is and is not considered egregious enough to qualify for the HoS since there is obviously some confusion on this matter) remain? Then what? Almost all of the HoS members have left already or been banned for other actions. The HoS nor the PL ban people from coming to this site and participating, including buying and selling. Basically at best the HoS and PL are a scarlet letter which may dissuade some boardies from buying from those people, and then even then we see that cool books still rule the day.

 

To me the PL is the time out corner, and as long as you stand in it for the time period (till you've made amends) you immediately come off and since most people don't even bother to check the PL let alone can successfully google for past history, for the most part that part of the persons past disappears (save for the couple dozen board members with great memory) The purpose of the HoS (to me) is similar to being committed to an insane asylum. You are their for the duration of your life until you prove to the board of doctors (in this case 50% of voting boardies) that you have changed your ways and fit into society again. I'm curious for those who only want the most egregious of the egregious to be on the list, what they view the purpose's of both lists to be and what goal they want to achieve.

 

Although we do want to be careful when someone is considered for something as serious as the HOS, it does serve a purpose to warn fellow forumites such members are not the best to deal with when buying or selling. Where that cutoff point is still remains with the majority.

 

If we really want to ensure the HOS is used for the most extreme cases, then maybe it is time to spell this out clearly what scenarios lead to a community vote and membership. Anything below that standard can then never come up as a recommendation if it is clear where the demarcation point starts and stops.

[jawn]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

[crassus]

Sha thanks for your input as always but as an overzealous newb I have a serious question for the vets working so hard to keep the HoS "their way". What is the difference? I mean this with all due respect. Lets say we clean out the HoS so that only Alleybat and the big time cheats (btw we should define this, what is and is not considered egregious enough to qualify for the HoS since there is obviously some confusion on this matter) remain? Then what? Almost all of the HoS members have left already or been banned for other actions. The HoS nor the PL ban people from coming to this site and participating, including buying and selling. Basically at best the HoS and PL are a scarlet letter which may dissuade some boardies from buying from those people, and then even then we see that cool books still rule the day.

 

To me the PL is the time out corner, and as long as you stand in it for the time period (till you've made amends) you immediately come off and since most people don't even bother to check the PL let alone can successfully google for past history, for the most part that part of the persons past disappears (save for the couple dozen board members with great memory) The purpose of the HoS (to me) is similar to being committed to an insane asylum. You are their for the duration of your life until you prove to the board of doctors (in this case 50% of voting boardies) that you have changed your ways and fit into society again. I'm curious for those who only want the most egregious of the egregious to be on the list, what they view the purpose's of both lists to be and what goal they want to achieve.

 

Although we do want to be careful when someone is considered for something as serious as the HOS, it does serve a purpose to warn fellow forumites such members are not the best to deal with when buying or selling. Where that cutoff point is still remains with the majority.

 

If we really want to ensure the HOS is used for the most extreme cases, then maybe it is time to spell this out clearly what scenarios lead to a community vote and membership. Anything below that standard can then never come up as a recommendation if it is clear where the demarcation point starts and stops.

 

My is that demarcation line is necessarily ambiguous and it would be very difficult to nail down. I'm also of the opinion that while the HoS should be reserved for more serious offenders, it should not be restricted to "extreme cases". Generally, I think the standard for HoS should encompass any cases where there is a clear and demonstrable pattern of deceitful practices. Each offense by itself does not have to be dramatic, but they can all add up over time to a chronic case.

[jawn]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

 

And there was at least mine and a few others PM activity from the date of the last post on the public thread. Again to me, think I'm just going to hold onto it in context with his previous PM response was him bartering. I responded in PM and on the public thread that I would take the book for his full asking price.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

Taking a break from the boards by oceanavekid

[bababooey]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

I'm not sure what that proved, was that in the PM? I never saw that posted if that was just your response to not comprehending a "no" in the public thread (I saw that)

 

You're obviously communication challenged - I disagree with your nomination*.

 

*For clarity, for you, that means the reasoning you've presented here that I've seen doesn't appear to warrant adding the nominee to the PL list.

[bababooey]

Taking a break from the boards by oceanavekid

That won't stop me!!!!11!!!

[crassus]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

I'm not sure what that proved, was that in the PM? I never saw that posted if that was just your response to not comprehending a "no" in the public thread (I saw that)

 

You're obviously communication challenged - I disagree with your nomination*.

 

*For clarity, for you, that means the reasoning you've presented here that I've seen doesn't appear to warrant adding the nominee to the PL list.

 

In fairness, the last PM exchanges between the two were 30 April, at approx 10pm, and the following (early) morning, with no clear "no", jawn posted the I'll take it in the thread. There was no reason for him to think, and indeed the seller never in any way said, that the thread was closed and the book unavailable. Maybe it was a communication problem and the seller has admitted he should have been clearer.

 

But, honestly, if you had been the seller, in this position, and you had already decided the book was not for sale and it was headed to Ebay, wouldn't you have said simply that to the first PM offer?

[N/A]

Taking a break from the boards by oceanavekid

That won't stop me!!!!11!!!

 

Oh the pressure!

[jsilverjanet]

Taking a break from the boards by oceanavekid

 

You can check out anytime you'd like but you can never leave

[Bosco685]

Sha thanks for your input as always but as an overzealous newb I have a serious question for the vets working so hard to keep the HoS "their way". What is the difference? I mean this with all due respect. Lets say we clean out the HoS so that only Alleybat and the big time cheats (btw we should define this, what is and is not considered egregious enough to qualify for the HoS since there is obviously some confusion on this matter) remain? Then what? Almost all of the HoS members have left already or been banned for other actions. The HoS nor the PL ban people from coming to this site and participating, including buying and selling. Basically at best the HoS and PL are a scarlet letter which may dissuade some boardies from buying from those people, and then even then we see that cool books still rule the day.

 

To me the PL is the time out corner, and as long as you stand in it for the time period (till you've made amends) you immediately come off and since most people don't even bother to check the PL let alone can successfully google for past history, for the most part that part of the persons past disappears (save for the couple dozen board members with great memory) The purpose of the HoS (to me) is similar to being committed to an insane asylum. You are their for the duration of your life until you prove to the board of doctors (in this case 50% of voting boardies) that you have changed your ways and fit into society again. I'm curious for those who only want the most egregious of the egregious to be on the list, what they view the purpose's of both lists to be and what goal they want to achieve.

 

Although we do want to be careful when someone is considered for something as serious as the HOS, it does serve a purpose to warn fellow forumites such members are not the best to deal with when buying or selling. Where that cutoff point is still remains with the majority.

 

If we really want to ensure the HOS is used for the most extreme cases, then maybe it is time to spell this out clearly what scenarios lead to a community vote and membership. Anything below that standard can then never come up as a recommendation if it is clear where the demarcation point starts and stops.

 

My is that demarcation line is necessarily ambiguous and it would be very difficult to nail down. I'm also of the opinion that while the HoS should be reserved for more serious offenders, it should not be restricted to "extreme cases". Generally, I think the standard for HoS should encompass any cases where there is a clear and demonstrable pattern of deceitful practices. Each offense by itself does not have to be dramatic, but they can all add up over time to a chronic case.

 

I agree it could be something reasonable like you spelled out, but with enough flexibility to account for the different ranges of offenses.

 

The challenge is when you see a situation that some may feel the dollar amount isn't high enough, and then they take offense the situation was even recommended.

 

But I can understand how tough it would be to try and account for everything. But some written guidelines that within reason spell out some cutoff would be nice.

 

HOS RECOMMENDATION RULES:

1) Situation cannot be for a single transaction that otherwise would be more a Probation List offense.

 

2) Situations that involve proven trickery on the part of a buyer or a seller to acquire either cash for undelivered goods or goods with undelivered payment which is a noted repeat offense (needs to be clarified what level of offense).

 

3) Sellers that attempt to offer goods that are proven not to be in their possession or control (they are not the owner nor representatives of the owner).

Etc., etc.

[revat]

Taking a break from the boards by oceanavekid

 

You can check out anytime you'd like but you can never leave

 

steely knives

[N/A]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

I'm not sure what that proved, was that in the PM? I never saw that posted if that was just your response to not comprehending a "no" in the public thread (I saw that)

 

You're obviously communication challenged - I disagree with your nomination*.

 

*For clarity, for you, that means the reasoning you've presented here that I've seen doesn't appear to warrant adding the nominee to the PL list.

 

In fairness, the last PM exchanges between the two were 30 April, at approx 10pm, and the following (early) morning, with no clear "no", jawn posted the I'll take it in the thread. There was no reason for him to think, and indeed the seller never in any way said, that the thread was closed and the book unavailable. Maybe it was a communication problem and the seller has admitted he should have been clearer.

 

But, honestly, if you had been the seller, in this position, and you had already decided the book was not for sale and it was headed to Ebay, wouldn't you have said simply that to the first PM offer?

 

The right thing for the seller to do is sell the book. Whether it's probation worthy is another thing. I had something similar happen to me a few weeks back and didn't even consider not selling the item.

[jawn]

The issue to me if you read the PM is he never said no. I consider that a bartering method or tool.

 

This was in response to my $100 offer.

 

Already had someone offer that. It might be priced low at $110

Think I'm just going to hold on to it

 

Thanks tho

 

 

Where does he say no, or it's not for sale? So to me I gave in and took it for the price he was asking. If you read the prior PM he was used similar wording about maybe keeping it until he took pictures, yet it stayed up for sale and he obviously received an offer for $100 which he refers to in the PM above.

 

Why would you read a private message from a seller that says "I'm going to hold on to it" and then go to the public thread and place a "takeit" in a thread that went a full week without any activity?

 

Why didn't you offer the full price privately?

 

 

I did.

 

Ok I'll take it for $110.

I'm not sure what that proved, was that in the PM? I never saw that posted if that was just your response to not comprehending a "no" in the public thread (I saw that)

 

You're obviously communication challenged - I disagree with your nomination*.

 

*For clarity, for you, that means the reasoning you've presented here that I've seen doesn't appear to warrant adding the nominee to the PL list.

 

I can repost the PMs if you would like. Yes that was in a PM. There was NEVER a no in the public thread, not sure what you are not comprehending or reading, but if he had said No I am more than capable of comprehending that. Perhaps start at the beginning or if you would like I will repost the entire PM history as well as the public thread.

[Hado]

I want to preface this with the fact that I have the utmost respect for SPB, I think we all do, because of her insightful posts and even nature.

 

This however outlines a point I made earlier about voting while everyone is heated about a subject.

 

This is from today:

 

Lying about your father dying...well, that's just plain juvenile and sad. It is not however, HOS material. I won't buy from that person because of his actions, but he belongs in the "cooler" not death row.

 

This is from January after I started a poll to remove SC from the HOS:

 

Since Hall of Shame is the best we can do under these circumstances and we don't have another place where you can stand in the corner till you grow up...I'm going to vote that you stay in the Hall of Shame.

 

Again, I'm not attacking or bashing SkyPinkBlue in any way. She's just an example of how our views change when we digest a topic and react without all that "rrrrrrrrrrrr" going on in our minds.

[bababooey]

Jawn,

 

Sure, add it to this.

 

Also please clarify how (considering the outcome) your "take that he was pushing for an extra $10" is closer to the truth than a "seller" telling you he planned to hold onto something twice. In most negotiations people don't know when the other party will buy, walk away, etc.... presuming that a soft "no" was a negotiation tactic may have been an error on your part - he did not want $10 more than you offered via PM.

 

 

I wish to nominate oceanavekid to the probation thread/list I don't know who has access to PM messages but I have no problem copying or opening them up for full disclosure. My take on this is he was pushing for the extra $10 on the book, after my offer of $100. I thought that was fair based on his asking price. After looking at some past sales and some other threads I fell asleep. When I woke up I was like f it what's $10 this is something on my list of wants and if it's not a newsstand copy it's still a pretty good deal. I did edit my I'll take it post after the fact to include the shipping included part. If a seller doesn't want to sell something virtually or real world they can say it's not for sale any longer. Not I think this or may that.

 

You should close the thread then, or at least take down the post for that one book.

 

According to the rules, jawn bought this book at the price advertised. Are you going back on the offer?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

You're 100% right I should have taken the book down right when I told him I wanted to keep it, thats my bad

 

If I get a strike i'd completely understand

 

Heres what I told him

 

 

 

 

 

Told him twice I was just going to hold on to it, so it shouldn't be a big surprise

 

Right after I said I was going to hold on to it he said he'd take it

I should have said not for sale and closed the thread

 

 

Edited May 2, 2014 by bababooey

[N/A]

Because the seller doesn't say that. I "think" and "probably". This is common in any board negotiation I've had.

 

Jawn,

 

Sure, add it to this.

 

Also please clarify how (considering the outcome) your "take that he was pushing for an extra $10" is closer to the truth than a "seller" telling you he planned to hold onto something twice.

 

 

 

 

I wish to nominate oceanavekid to the probation thread/list I don't know who has access to PM messages but I have no problem copying or opening them up for full disclosure. My take on this is he was pushing for the extra $10 on the book, after my offer of $100. I thought that was fair based on his asking price. After looking at some past sales and some other threads I fell asleep. When I woke up I was like f it what's $10 this is something on my list of wants and if it's not a newsstand copy it's still a pretty good deal. I did edit my I'll take it post after the fact to include the shipping included part. If a seller doesn't want to sell something virtually or real world they can say it's not for sale any longer. Not I think this or may that.

 

You should close the thread then, or at least take down the post for that one book.

 

According to the rules, jawn bought this book at the price advertised. Are you going back on the offer?

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

You're 100% right I should have taken the book down right when I told him I wanted to keep it, thats my bad

 

If I get a strike i'd completely understand

 

Heres what I told him

 

 

 

 

 

Told him twice I was just going to hold on to it, so it shouldn't be a big surprise

 

Right after I said I was going to hold on to it he said he'd take it

I should have said not for sale and closed the thread

 

[Bosco685]

 

This is from January after I started a poll to remove SC from the HOS:

 

Since Hall of Shame is the best we can do under these circumstances and we don't have another place where you can stand in the corner till you grow up...I'm going to vote that you stay in the Hall of Shame.

 

Sometimes having the full quote, and what led to a statement, can make a big difference. But nothing against you.

 

Just when I thought I was out they pull me back in

 

My joke about good ole dad died was my black humor. I wasnt hiding it.

 

i made a bad transaction on an item and tried to make right after and he politley declined.

 

The lynchmob jumped all over me and began the battle of shaking and HOS voting.

 

 

 

I have met alot of great and insightful people that have helped me in achieving my foreign collection.

 

My humor is black, salty, and Texan. My friends over in the foreign section can attest to that.

 

I also give props to Slym2none for being the only former lynchmob to post non-aggressive and attacking posts in my own threads.

 

Also, keeping me on the HOS kinda dilutes the effectiveness as i never ripped off anyone. Im not a dealer and all my sales and deals are private...it prevents JoeCGCManiac from jumping in every 5 minutes....

 

I apologize to anyone who feels offended and i will abide to the forum rules....

 

Go BRONCOS!

 

 

 

I think I'm fairly easy going...I like to make up my mind and read the facts before I find tar paper and torches...

 

I had not voted previously. I had not voted now...but I'm going to. I just read the thread where you mentioned a phone call about your father and your response now.

 

I had a wonderful mentor who died that way. He served his Country and years later died a horrible death from several forms of Cancer and Agent Orange was the cause. He was 59 years old and way too young to die.

 

He was a very tolerant kind man...but even he would have seen your "apology" as a farce...why on earth would you blame Joe for your transgressions?

 

There is no way anyone who was not advised by you that this was a "joke" ...would have taken your statement as a "joke".

 

I don't think it was one, I think you are just backsliding.

 

Since Hall of Shame is the best we can do under these circumstances and we don't have another place where you can stand in the corner till you grow up...I'm going to vote that you stay in the Hall of Shame.