PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[joe_collector]

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

 

You said it therefore it's true.

 

When someone (you) not evenly remotely involved in the perceived transaction, initiated the PL disbarment process, it certainly makes you think about motive.

 

Go back and read.

 

I did and you were the first to initiate the process, it's all there in black and white.

[N/A]

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

 

You said it therefore it's true.

 

When someone (you) not evenly remotely involved in the perceived transaction, initiated the PL disbarment process, it certainly makes you think about motive.

 

Go back and read.

 

I did and you were the first to initiate the process, it's all there in black and white.

 

So is the motive.

[N/A]

My Wife and I are currently thinking about moving.

 

If your real estate agent is a graduate of the "Oceanavenue Real Estate Negotiating Skills Course" - don't believe him if he assures you that sloppy negotiations will spur the buyers to offer you more than the price you are asking - change agents.

 

Sellers don't generally negotiate buyers up to a higher unnamed price - contrary to your current beliefs.

 

 

 

Apparently no contracts required. All I have to do is ask them if they're thinking about buying my house. They say yes and I gottem.

[joe_collector]

IT'S LUNCHTIME!!

 

[N/A]

There goes the post count.

[HarveySwick]

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

I really don't understand this statement? There WAS discussion - several pages of discussion before he was actually added to the list.

 

Does the fact that you were not involved in the discussion mean there was no discussion? Do you think if you're not in the woods to hear a tree fall, it doesn't make a sound?

[bababooey]

My Wife and I are currently thinking about moving.

 

If your real estate agent is a graduate of the "Oceanavenue Real Estate Negotiating Skills Course" - don't believe him if he assures you that sloppy negotiations will spur the buyers to offer you more than the price you are asking - change agents.

 

Sellers don't generally negotiate buyers up to a higher unnamed price - contrary to your current beliefs.

 

 

 

Apparently no contracts required. All I have to do is ask them if they're thinking about buying my house. They say yes and I gottem.

 

Oh c'mon...anyone who capitalizes the word "wife" is NOT calling the shots.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Just so this doesn't get missed in all the hooplah!

 

Guys take it to the General discussion thread now.

 

Is there a Cliff Notes version available?

 

Guy buys book, seller claims isn't restored.

Submits to cgc, comes back restored. Seller offers refund in time payments. (Like the book was paid for). Payments from seller stopped.

 

If I understand the narrative correctly, the seller made no payments other than an m.o. with the wrong name, which had to be returned.

 

Exactly right. No successful payments.

 

I'm not far from Guelph.

 

Is there anything I can do to help this along?

[Iceman399]

This discussion is no longer about what's right but about who's right.

 

There never has been a discussion.

 

Ocean got railroaded into the PL and no number of complaints will change that. So watch it, you could be next.

I really don't understand this statement? There WAS discussion - several pages of discussion before he was actually added to the list.

 

Does the fact that you were not involved in the discussion mean there was no discussion? Do you think if you're not in the woods to hear a tree fall, it doesn't make a sound?

 

Get out of this discussion it is now only between Ontarioans

[N/A]

Another disagreement. Yay post count!!!

 

I capitalize Mr but they ain't the boss.

[N/A]

Just so this doesn't get missed in all the hooplah!

 

Guys take it to the General discussion thread now.

 

Is there a Cliff Notes version available?

 

Guy buys book, seller claims isn't restored.

Submits to cgc, comes back restored. Seller offers refund in time payments. (Like the book was paid for). Payments from seller stopped.

 

If I understand the narrative correctly, the seller made no payments other than an m.o. with the wrong name, which had to be returned.

 

Exactly right. No successful payments.

 

I'm not far from Guelph.

 

Is there anything I can do to help this along?

 

Spam elsewhere Roy

[VintageComics]

Spam elsewhere Roy

 

How is this spam?

 

I was contacted by a fellow boardie from the US who felt bad for Barrister and asked me if I was close to Guelph and if I could help. I'm offering to help.

 

[Chaseman210]

I will state this again...

 

Those who feel oceanavekid was "negotiating" need to see that jawn's first PM to the 'kid asked him him the book was a direct or newsstand edition.

 

The 'kid's FIRST reply was a response to jawn's question which wasn't about price ... then in the same PM, stating he was going to "hold on to the book".

 

Price hadn't been brought up yet, there was no negotiation the first time oceanavekid said "no" or in his own words "going to keep book" .

 

Oceanavekid's subsequent posts to the buyer seem to be somewhat polite gestures to assure the buyer he was keeping the book.

 

While the words "probably" and "I think" could be argued as misleading or some sort of Jedi negotiation tactic, the statement "I'm going to hold onto the book" seems more important.

 

Again... if the 'kid was using the words "I think" and "probably" as negotiation tactics... then the book would have been sold to jawn, correct? It wasn't sold to jawn, so this coupled with the above should throw negotiation out of the discussion on this one.

 

Unless the 'kid really is a Jedi and he's just sitting back seeing his foreseen plan unfold

 

 

 

But when he FIRST stated he "might hold onto it," the reasoning was because he needed to get pics. That's not being clear at all that he wanted to hold onto it and not sell it.

[jaybuck43]

My Wife and I are currently thinking about moving.

 

If your real estate agent is a graduate of the "Oceanavenue Real Estate Negotiating Skills Course" - don't believe him if he assures you that sloppy negotiations will spur the buyers to offer you more than the price you are asking - change agents.

 

Sellers don't generally negotiate buyers up to a higher unnamed price - contrary to your current beliefs.

 

 

Totally off topic but interesting none the less. My family and I were looking to purchase land in New York State. We found a piece of land (20+ acres) that we loved. Asking price was $119,900. My dad and I found out that it had been sitting on the market for like 2 years so we were sure we could get it down much lower. Dad called the listing agent and put in a bid at $75,000. Next day get a call, bid was rejected, no counter offer. Dad said he would think about it, called agent again and said ok we can come up to 90k. Agent again called back the next day said, no counter off, bid rejected. So dad and I were like this is really weird, why no counter offer but whatever Dad made one last bid, told the agent this is the highest I'm willing to go $105,000, magically the bid was accepted. So I'm doing all the paperwork and legal checking as we are getting close to closing and we are talking with the seller, going through contracts and perc tests and the like. My dad goes, man you really drove a hard bargain, I can't believe you never counter offered. Sellers like, well no offense, you offered more than I thought I was going to get so what is the point in trying to squeeze out more. Turns out... The agent never submitted the first two bids. She knew that the seller was willing to go down a lot (he wanted to offload the land) and her commission was tied to the sale so she stood to make an extra 1500 by not submitting the bids. We reported her and she lost her license. Crazy... Sorry for the thread disruption.

[Chaseman210]

The point we disagree on is the "buyer being told it was not for sale"

 

I'd bet real money that if we ran a poll within the general public, whereby he/she is trying to buy a product from an individual, and the seller told them:

 

"I think I will keep it"

 

Does that mean:

 

a) the seller wants to keep it

b) the seller doesn't want to keep it

c) the seller wants more money

 

There is no question that a) would win the poll, as that's the most logical assumption based on the English language. Due to their own biases and experience, some would chose b) or c) but not in majority numbers.

 

I speak like this all the time:

 

"I think I'll go to the store"

 

"I think I'll go out for a drive and look for new houses on sale"

 

"I think I'll order pizza tonight"

 

I'm not negotiating, I'm stating what I am going to do starting with "I think".

 

 

But Ocean followed up the "might" and "think I might" with phrases that clearly show the book was still for sale. His first "Think" said he thinks he would hold onto it until he got picture.

 

Then once Jawn made an offer, the second "might" was "I might just hold onto it because IT'S PRICED TOO LOW."

 

You're only looking at the words, not the phrases that followed. How can think and might not mean the books are still for sale? No need for pics and price if it was off the market.

[Dr. Balls]

We reported her and she lost her license. Crazy... Sorry for the thread disruption.

 

 

Still off-topic: unethical real estate agents deserve to always be reported.

[revat]

The point we disagree on is the "buyer being told it was not for sale"

 

I'd bet real money that if we ran a poll within the general public, whereby he/she is trying to buy a product from an individual, and the seller told them:

 

"I think I will keep it"

 

Does that mean:

 

a) the seller wants to keep it

b) the seller doesn't want to keep it

c) the seller wants more money

 

There is no question that a) would win the poll, as that's the most logical assumption based on the English language. Due to their own biases and experience, some would chose b) or c) but not in majority numbers.

 

I speak like this all the time:

 

"I think I'll go to the store"

 

"I think I'll go out for a drive and look for new houses on sale"

 

"I think I'll order pizza tonight"

 

I'm not negotiating, I'm stating what I am going to do starting with "I think".

 

 

But Ocean followed up the "might" and "think I might" with phrases that clearly show the book was still for sale. His first "Think" said he thinks he would hold onto it until he got picture.

 

Then once Jawn made an offer, the second "might" was "I might just hold onto it because IT'S PRICED TOO LOW."

 

You're only looking at the words, not the phrases that followed. How can think and might not mean the books are still for sale? No need for pics and price if it was off the market.

 

I think one of the fuzzy things is the use of the term, 'on the market' or 'for sale'.

 

Just because someone lists something on EBAY for a higher price, does NOT mean that it is still for sale at the lower price. Technically, it should mean that it is in fact NO LONGER for sale on the boards, as is it is against board rules to sell items on the boards and other venues.

 

BUT since this seller has a long history of selling on the boards and on EBAY at the same time, the situation becomes murkier, some members on the boards are in favor of teaching the seller a lesson about procedures (which he absolutely needs to learn), with the result being a PL listing.

 

But I think the PL listing should be used to keep someone from being screwed, or as motivation to make someone whole. I don't think the buyer in this case was screwed or is unwhole (partially because of his own actions), and therefore PL isn't warranted to me.

 

 

[Jimmy Linguini]

No one ever invites me to move in with them

[N/A]

No one ever invites me to move in with them

 

You're currently living with someone. Were you no invited?

[nocutename]

Totally off topic but interesting none the less. My family and I were looking to purchase land in New York State. We found a piece of land (20+ acres) that we loved. Asking price was $119,900. My dad and I found out that it had been sitting on the market for like 2 years so we were sure we could get it down much lower. Dad called the listing agent and put in a bid at $75,000. Next day get a call, bid was rejected, no counter offer. Dad said he would think about it, called agent again and said ok we can come up to 90k. Agent again called back the next day said, no counter off, bid rejected. So dad and I were like this is really weird, why no counter offer but whatever Dad made one last bid, told the agent this is the highest I'm willing to go $105,000, magically the bid was accepted. So I'm doing all the paperwork and legal checking as we are getting close to closing and we are talking with the seller, going through contracts and perc tests and the like. My dad goes, man you really drove a hard bargain, I can't believe you never counter offered. Sellers like, well no offense, you offered more than I thought I was going to get so what is the point in trying to squeeze out more. Turns out... The agent never submitted the first two bids. She knew that the seller was willing to go down a lot (he wanted to offload the land) and her commission was tied to the sale so she stood to make an extra 1500 by not submitting the bids. We reported her and she lost her license. Crazy... Sorry for the thread disruption.

 

That is terrible. Good to report her but still bad that you forked over an extra $30k because of her greediness.

 

On the topic, I read some of Ocean issue, I never thought I would agree with Joe or Mike.

 

I just had a similar thing happen to me where I was the potential buyer. I PM'd the seller about a book that was just removed from his thread. He is a seasoned seller so he wasn't ambiguous with his terms.

 

One thing about this probation debates is everyone attempts to "figure" out what is the meaning behind the message. That isn't right, Ocean said no deal, and the buyer still went ahead to force his hand. I don't know what Ocean antics were as I haven't read through the entire thread. But to over analyze this one sentence is a bit much, IMO.

 

I am running away now. to those who I have missed.