PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[thehumantorch]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

[Speedy-D]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

No it won't. He isn't going to give Twistty1 his refund just to get of the Probies list. He's probably not going to do it at all, but if he does it'll be because of something other than being on the list.

 

And Sharon, $1200 is a pretty big deal in my world. I understand the notion of saving the HOS for repeat offenders, but that really just means waiting until someone has proven beyond a doubt that they can't be trusted. Has that not been proved here already? Who, besides our lil' scammer, would ever benefit from his getting of the probation list?

[thehumantorch]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

No it won't. He isn't going to give Twistty1 his refund just to get of the Probies list. He's probably not going to do it at all, but if he does it'll be because of something other than being on the list.

 

And Sharon, $1200 is a pretty big deal in my world. I understand the notion of saving the HOS for repeat offenders, but that really just means waiting until someone has proven beyond a doubt that they can't be trusted. Has that not been proved here already? Who, besides our lil' scammer, would ever benefit from his getting of the probation list?

 

I think the amount is closer to $400. Sagat made a partial refund and Twisty

sold the book for about $400.

[Speedy-D]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

No it won't. He isn't going to give Twistty1 his refund just to get of the Probies list. He's probably not going to do it at all, but if he does it'll be because of something other than being on the list.

 

And Sharon, $1200 is a pretty big deal in my world. I understand the notion of saving the HOS for repeat offenders, but that really just means waiting until someone has proven beyond a doubt that they can't be trusted. Has that not been proved here already? Who, besides our lil' scammer, would ever benefit from his getting of the probation list?

 

I think the amount is closer to $400. Sagat made a partial refund and Twisty

sold the book for about $400.

True.

[JazzMan]

There's been questions/concerns that this was outside of the boards, I want to remind you that we have ComicsSupplyon the HOS that dealt mainly with folks off the boards. Albeit, he did have multiple stints in the Probation list prior to it, it does make the argument that deals make outside the boards by fellow board members ARE indeed able to be included on the Proby list.

[Twistty1]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

No it won't. He isn't going to give Twistty1 his refund just to get of the Probies list. He's probably not going to do it at all, but if he does it'll be because of something other than being on the list.

 

And Sharon, $1200 is a pretty big deal in my world. I understand the notion of saving the HOS for repeat offenders, but that really just means waiting until someone has proven beyond a doubt that they can't be trusted. Has that not been proved here already? Who, besides our lil' scammer, would ever benefit from his getting of the probation list?

 

I think the amount is closer to $400. Sagat made a partial refund and Twisty

sold the book for about $400.

True.

 

Torch is right the amount owed is probably about 400, but I think Speedy was thinking of the original amount of the initial transaction which was over 1200 I believe.

[Speedy-D]

I can see the probation list, definitely.

1.These are 2 board members, I don't really care if the transaction on the boards or in a PM, or at the local bar.

 

It's obvious from October's statement that this was not an accident.

 

But I think Hall of Shame is not appropriate yet. Give him the chance to do the right thing and return the other $400.

 

If he doesn't, he stays on the list, forever.

 

.

He's had 2 years to deal with it though. And even if he does fork over the $400 under duress, it'll be no indication that he's trustworthy. This isn't a case of someone getting in over their head or being forgetful, all reports suggest that he was willfully deceptive. Isn't that what the HOS is for?

 

I don't doubt he'll never get off the probation list...and he's on my hall of slime list...however, the Hall of Shame was always for multiple transactions or HUGE transactions like that Batman 1.

If we toss every one on the Hall of Shame immediately, it loses something when you need to go to the next step.

 

Just how I view it. One is jail, the other is death row.

 

Must agree. The purpose of the probation list is identify people who have failed

to complete a transaction honestly and to hopefully pressure that person into

making good. Tossing him into the Hall of Shame will eliminate any chance of

Twister getting a complete refund, no matter how remote that likelyhood is.

No it won't. He isn't going to give Twistty1 his refund just to get of the Probies list. He's probably not going to do it at all, but if he does it'll be because of something other than being on the list.

 

And Sharon, $1200 is a pretty big deal in my world. I understand the notion of saving the HOS for repeat offenders, but that really just means waiting until someone has proven beyond a doubt that they can't be trusted. Has that not been proved here already? Who, besides our lil' scammer, would ever benefit from his getting of the probation list?

 

I think the amount is closer to $400. Sagat made a partial refund and Twisty

sold the book for about $400.

True.

 

Torch is right the amount owed is probably about 400, but I think Speedy was thinking of the original amount of the initial transaction which was over 1200 I believe.

Exactly. Scammed for $1200, took 2 years to recoup 2/3 of that ... that's pretty rough.

[tortoise]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

[Count]

Would Robojo have a clean slate on this forum even tho he never conducted any business here?

 

 

[Speedy-D]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

[greggy]

Burn the witch.

[tortoise]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

 

My point being.. If Sagat goes on, shouldn't robojo, and bijou baby etc?

[sd2416]

I think we have a "ebay seller to avoid" thread here, dont we? (if not, it must be on one of the other forums I frequent).

 

Maybe that should be edited to off-forum sellers to avoid, be it ebay, other boards, transactions made outside of the board here so that we can have a heads up about ANY dishonest seller/buyer and keep the Probation List/HOS to just deals made here. Ive been lucky enough to not had any negative transactions with any of the sellers I have bought from in the past and have really appreciated the heads up as a buyer and seller that the PL/HOS provides.

 

Since we police each other on here, maybe we need to revise the process and maybe set standards for the classification?

 

 

[Count]

[seanfingh]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

 

My point being.. If Sagat goes on, shouldn't robojo, and bijou baby etc?

 

Robojo and Bijoubaby are not on here constantly trolling the WTB forum with ridiculously low buying threads and generally reducing the ambient intelligence quotient. SAGAT is.

[tortoise]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

 

My point being.. If Sagat goes on, shouldn't robojo, and bijou baby etc?

 

Robojo and Bijoubaby are not on here constantly trolling the WTB forum with ridiculously low buying threads and generally reducing the ambient intelligence quotient. SAGAT is.

 

Does it matter?

The point being made by many of the posters here is that they want to add Sagat as a warning to other members.

I think if we list Sagat, it's only ethical to add Robojo etc. Seems they're not all that different at this point. Sagats a member with a bad rep, Robojo is and ebayer with a bad rep. Surely the community deserves a warning about both of them and I'm sure many more.

 

So... re-define the definition of the HOS and P-List and add multiple names , or just let it be confined to these boards and these boards alone.

just my opinion of course

[comix4fun]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

 

My point being.. If Sagat goes on, shouldn't robojo, and bijou baby etc?

 

Robojo and Bijoubaby are not on here constantly trolling the WTB forum with ridiculously low buying threads and generally reducing the ambient intelligence quotient. SAGAT is.

 

This scam involved 2 board members, and the dishonest action was corroborated by a third. If board semantics demand a tweak to the language then so be it. That's the responsible thing to do in the face of clear and obvious dishonesty. Let's not stand on ceremony citizens. The list is here to inform and protect. Let's do that.

[seanfingh]

The P-List says:

 

"The following Board Members are currently on "Probation" for failure to complete

a Marketplace Forum transaction in good faith after one month's time: "

 

based on that Sagat doesn't go on, and if he does, that needs to be changed.

Then change the wording. If the offense is a likely indicator that a future board transaction will go south, and the facts are relatively well proven, what does it matter where it happened?

 

My point being.. If Sagat goes on, shouldn't robojo, and bijou baby etc?

 

Robojo and Bijoubaby are not on here constantly trolling the WTB forum with ridiculously low buying threads and generally reducing the ambient intelligence quotient. SAGAT is.

 

Does it matter?

 

To me, yes.

[tortoise]

I don't disagree with Sagat being listed. I have my own opinions based on what I've seen from him here. But, I think the P-list needs to be amended, and/or we need to add a Ebay P-list in addition too the current format we have.

 

 

[sufunk]

Normally, i would agree with tortoise and others that since this wasnt a board transaction, it shouldnt be probation list worthy.

 

BUT

 

This was an insanely bad transaction. Unless SAGAT had been in the hobby for less than 30 seconds, there is NO possible way he didnt know that book was restored! I'm about a 1 on a scale of 10 detecting resto and even i saw that immediately. My 8 year old daughter would have done a better job re-drawing Thor and Iron Mans head and the lettering!

 

No possible way that SAGAT didnt know this was restored and 100% intend to screw twisty in my mind. I'd vote for probation list on this one definitely (thumbs u

Edited April 28, 2011 by sufunk