PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[gaz973]

 

Your case is also hurt by not responding before the second PM he sent because that could be interpreted as taking item A off the table and using it as a benchmark to upsell A & B together.

 

Just sayin'

 

It was three and a half hours between the two PMs. It was the middle of the day, not everyone has the chance to check and reply to PMs when they're at work and it's unreasonable to expect someone to. Fox probably hadn't even read the first PM before he got the second.

[gaz973]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

 

Actually, I was in a casual PM with Lebowski and after a little dead time, he Removed Himself from Topic and I still replied to it stating "How dare you remove yourself! I do the removing!" Well, he got that message. So I guess the thread is reactivated after someone replies. This was a little while ago so I don't know if the PM system has changed.

 

I hope that's not right because I sometimes use PMs where the other person has removed themselves as a data store.

[Anfield Fox]

I would like to add campbelljh3 to the probation list. He has made it clear in another thread he has no intention of honoring a deal we made.

 

Details:

 

He posted this IM 55 in the PGM section

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5931889#Post5931889

 

I contacted him asking if he would be willing to sell it. Our reply's are documented below

 

campbelljh3 PM 08/20/12 10:38 AM

 

Matt,

 

Thanks for the input. If you decide you want for $675 let me know. I would have to charge $25 to ship it registered mail so I can insure and track it all the way to you. I love the book but personally thought I would get a 9.4 in comparing it to other books.

 

Best Regards,

 

John

 

campbelljh3 PM 08/20/12 02:05 PM

 

Matt,

 

Are you interested in the Hulk book as well? We could work a package deal out if you like:)

 

I have more room to move on the Hulk but would only sell if someone wanted both. I have had the hulk stored away bagged/boarded so paid a lot less than what it is worth now.

 

My reply 08/20/12 03:02 PM

 

Thanks but i already have a nice Hulk 181.

 

$700 is more than i wanted to pay but yeah lets do it. Please give me your paypal details.

 

Matt

 

campbelljh3 has removed themself from this topic.

 

My second reply 08/21/12 01:24 AM

 

So John do we have a deal? You asked $700 shipped and i said i would go for it but i noticed you removed yourself from the topic

 

I would love to add it to my collection but if you've changed your mind please let me know so i can spend the money on something else

 

Matt

 

Today he's denied any knowledge of this deal in the thread below so not only is he not a man of his word, he's also a liar.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5990343#Post5990343

 

I wanted to wait the full 30 days to post this but people have advised i do it now since he has no intention of honoring the deal, there is no point waiting. Therefore i would like him added to the list.

Your case would be stronger with some details on the expression of interest or input that caused him to name a price for you.

 

Your case is also hurt by not responding before the second PM he sent because that could be interpreted as taking item A off the table and using it as a benchmark to upsell A & B together.

 

Just sayin'

 

As Garry said i read both together. If you look at the timestamps his price for the IM 55 was made at 10:38am. He then further offered a Hulk 181 at 2:05pm. Importantly he did not take the IM 55 offer off the table. I then accepted his offer for the IM 55 as soon as i read the PM's at 3:02pm. All this happened in 4 1/2 hours in the middle of the day.

 

He then ignored my following PM's, removed himself and caused me to miss another copy on the forums. When called out he further ignored it until the thread yesterday where his conduct is appaling denying he even knew who i was!

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5990343&fpart=1

 

I am unsure if removing yourself from a PM stops you reading responses and i apologized to him if he didn't see my replies but like i said his replies yesterday to try remedy this left no doubt he should be added to the list.

 

I certainly wouldn't want someone to sell something they didn't want to and as you can see in my last PM i asked if that was the case. All i wanted was the courtesy of a reply.

 

Yesterday he said he wouldn't complete the transaction as "a matter of principle" and then a few hours later changed his story and said "he would if he still had it".

 

Here is the whole PM conversation since you also requested that.

 

Hi i saw this in the PGM forum, i was wondering if you were looking to sell?

 

I hope you don't think it's rude of me to ask. Don't ask and you'll never know right?

 

Thanks regardless \:\)

 

Matt

 

P.S. Do NOT touch those with an eraser. What bad advise some people give

 

Matt,

 

Hi there,

 

Yeah I wasn't gonna try that, . This book is great minus that tiny lower right cover page. I wasn't about to mess it up.

 

I am always looking at selling my stuff for the right price, besides my ever growing modern walking dead collection;)

 

What were you thinking? I actually already had an offer from someone else when I posted. I would only break even on it with PayPal and shipping fees so I declined. I paid $675 for this about 6 months ago because of the condition and just was about to submit a bundle to cgc next week.

 

Best regards,

 

John

 

Hi John,

 

Thanks for getting back to me.

 

I'm surprised you paid $675 for it 6 months ago, that was before the Thanos hype made this book go crazy after Avengers came out.

 

Now obviously i have a vested interest in what i pay but as Joey said i see this book as a 9.0 because of the bottom left corner bump and the color breaking crease on the bottom right corner.

 

So i looked at completed sales for CGC graded 9.0's and they range from $598-$711.

 

If you paid $675 and then add in grading fees and shipping to and back from CGC as well as the long wait for them to grade it and then sell it slabbed you'll loose more money. If you get lucky with a 9.2 then after those costs as well as paypal and ebay fees you'll break even because CGC 9.2 prices are $760-$857 (the $857 was right after the movie came out, it's cooled off a bit now).

 

So either way it's not worth slabbing this book if you intend to sell. Just my after you mentioned what you paid.

 

I would love to add this one to my collection but i wouldn't be able to pay more than you paid \:\(

 

I do have a raw 9.8 Walking Dead collection which i would hate to part with but we might be able to come to some trade agreement? But i'm not sure how it would work since we don't know each other.

 

If you go ahead and CGC it then please let me know and i'll pay full 12 month GPA in whatever grade it comes back. That way you won't have any fees to pay at least.

 

All the best with whatever you decide. It's a nice book and so is the Hulk 181

 

Matt

 

Matt,

 

Thanks for the input. If you decide you want for $675 let me know. I would have to charge $25 to ship it registered mail so I can insure and track it all the way to you. I love the book but personally thought I would get a 9.4 in comparing it to other books.

 

Best Regards,

 

John

 

Matt,

 

Are you interested in the Hulk book as well? We could work a package deal out if you like:)

 

 

I have more room to move on the Hulk but would only sell if someone wanted both. I have had the hulk stored away bagged/boarded so paid a lot less than what it is worth now.

 

Thanks but i already have a nice Hulk 181.

 

$700 is more than i wanted to pay but yeah lets do it. Please give me your paypal details.

 

Matt

 

So John do we have a deal? You asked $700 shipped and i said i would go for it but i noticed you removed yourself from the topic \(shrug\)

 

I would love to add it to my collection but if you've changed your mind please let me know so i can spend the money on something else \:\)

 

Matt

[nocutename]

 

As Garry said i read both together. If you look at the timestamps his price for the IM 55 was made at 10:38am. He then further offered a Hulk 181 at 2:05pm. Importantly he did not take the IM 55 offer off the table. I then accepted his offer for the IM 55 as soon as i read the PM's at 3:02pm. All this happened in 4 1/2 hours in the middle of the day.

 

He then ignored my following PM's, removed himself and caused me to miss another copy on the forums. When called out he further ignored it until the thread yesterday where his conduct is appaling denying he even knew who i was!

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5990343&fpart=1

 

 

When did he ignore your PM? Was it when you stated you'll take it? Or did you send a new PM to him? If the latter, when did this happen? If it is the former, it's your perception that he ignored anything. He read it but didn't reply.

 

Here's my take, an deal isn't completed until both parties state, OK.

 

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

You didn't receive the acknowledgement from the seller nor did you clearly communicate your desire to purchase it. If you stated "I'll take it but I didn't want to spend that much." I think it would change my thoughts. Some people tune out anything after see a negative response. I don't know if that is what happened in this case.

 

Personally, after the seller removed himself from the topic, I would consider myself free to purchase a different copy. Why? Because the third step wasn't an acceptance but a rejection. I feel bad because it looks like you wanted to hold up your end and missed out on another copy. But I don't see all the elements here that made the deal solid.

[Speedy-D]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

I love the way you think.Maybe we should give him the benefit.......

 

 

Hang him!

Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!!

[Guest Reader]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

[Mr.Diggler]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

 

Actually, I was in a casual PM with Lebowski and after a little dead time, he Removed Himself from Topic and I still replied to it stating "How dare you remove yourself! I do the removing!" Well, he got that message. So I guess the thread is reactivated after someone replies. This was a little while ago so I don't know if the PM system has changed.

 

I hope that's not right because I sometimes use PMs where the other person has removed themselves as a data store.

 

Me too.

[skypinkblu]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

 

Actually, I was in a casual PM with Lebowski and after a little dead time, he Removed Himself from Topic and I still replied to it stating "How dare you remove yourself! I do the removing!" Well, he got that message. So I guess the thread is reactivated after someone replies. This was a little while ago so I don't know if the PM system has changed.

 

I hope that's not right because I sometimes use PMs where the other person has removed themselves as a data store.

 

Me too.

 

Why? You can just send yourself a PM...use that as a data store:)

[gaz2810i]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

 

I agree with you, The person gave a price and it was accepted. It's no different from a buyer placing the in a sales thread and expecting the sale to go ahead

 

By nocutename reasoning once the is placed in the thread we should all be waiting for a resonse from the seller agreeing the buyers agreeance

[Comicopolis]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

 

Actually, I was in a casual PM with Lebowski and after a little dead time, he Removed Himself from Topic and I still replied to it stating "How dare you remove yourself! I do the removing!" Well, he got that message. So I guess the thread is reactivated after someone replies. This was a little while ago so I don't know if the PM system has changed.

 

I hope that's not right because I sometimes use PMs where the other person has removed themselves as a data store.

 

Me too.

 

Why? You can just send yourself a PM...use that as a data store:)

 

Is that why you are getting 5 PM's a day?

[skypinkblu]

I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if it had just been the PMs. He removed himself from the topic, so he never saw your PM on the 21st, right?

 

But then he gets classically defensive and BSey ... on the list he goes!!

 

Actually, I was in a casual PM with Lebowski and after a little dead time, he Removed Himself from Topic and I still replied to it stating "How dare you remove yourself! I do the removing!" Well, he got that message. So I guess the thread is reactivated after someone replies. This was a little while ago so I don't know if the PM system has changed.

 

I hope that's not right because I sometimes use PMs where the other person has removed themselves as a data store.

 

Me too.

 

Why? You can just send yourself a PM...use that as a data store:)

 

Is that why you are getting 5 PM's a day?

 

[nocutename]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

 

I agree with you, The person gave a price and it was accepted. It's no different from a buyer placing the in a sales thread and expecting the sale to go ahead

 

By nocutename reasoning once the is placed in the thread we should all be waiting for a resonse from the seller agreeing the buyers agreeance

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

 

A sales thread is completely different than a private sale like this. In a sales thread, we have board rules on how a thread is conducted. I don't believe we have such rules for PM or non-sales thread sales. Which is why when these go awry, there is confusion as to if this is a probation issue. Perhaps, the boards should have some guidelines about closed deals like this.

 

I still stand by my opinion that this isn't one. The seller removed himself from the PM, thereby rejecting the acceptance. The buyer could have sent a separate PM with a new acceptance but didn't.

[skypinkblu]

 

That would be smart and I would but I deleted the discussion because I did not think he wanted it! Same point I have been making!

 

Again if I still had the book I would have gladly sold it for $700, as pointed out before no one else would pay that price.

 

I must admit I'm slightly confused. In his want to buy thread, the seller states he no longer has the book. I wish he'd post here and explain that one. Did he sell it before Matt replied?

 

Edited September 10, 2012 by skypinkblu

[dscott]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

 

I agree with you, The person gave a price and it was accepted. It's no different from a buyer placing the in a sales thread and expecting the sale to go ahead

 

By nocutename reasoning once the is placed in the thread we should all be waiting for a resonse from the seller agreeing the buyers agreeance

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

 

A sales thread is completely different than a private sale like this. In a sales thread, we have board rules on how a thread is conducted. I don't believe we have such rules for PM or non-sales thread sales. Which is why when these go awry, there is confusion as to if this is a probation issue. Perhaps, the boards should have some guidelines about closed deals like this.

 

I still stand by my opinion that this isn't one. The seller removed himself from the PM, thereby rejecting the acceptance. The buyer could have sent a separate PM with a new acceptance but didn't.

 

respectfully I would disagree, once a price is offered to a potential buyer I am trying to sell him an item. Just as I would if it was a sales thread on the boards. When he says he will buy that item I consider it sold and plan accordingly.

 

Let me ask this. If Fox had said ok but then decided he didnt want the book and removed himself from the PM topic would he be on the probation list right now? I am almost 99% sure that everyone here would be fine with the seller nominating him to the list even if the seller didnt say after Fox stated he would take the book at the offered price via PM.

[comix4fun]

 

As Garry said i read both together. If you look at the timestamps his price for the IM 55 was made at 10:38am. He then further offered a Hulk 181 at 2:05pm. Importantly he did not take the IM 55 offer off the table. I then accepted his offer for the IM 55 as soon as i read the PM's at 3:02pm. All this happened in 4 1/2 hours in the middle of the day.

 

He then ignored my following PM's, removed himself and caused me to miss another copy on the forums. When called out he further ignored it until the thread yesterday where his conduct is appaling denying he even knew who i was!

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5990343&fpart=1

 

 

When did he ignore your PM? Was it when you stated you'll take it? Or did you send a new PM to him? If the latter, when did this happen? If it is the former, it's your perception that he ignored anything. He read it but didn't reply.

 

Here's my take, an deal isn't completed until both parties state, OK.

 

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

You didn't receive the acknowledgement from the seller nor did you clearly communicate your desire to purchase it. If you stated "I'll take it but I didn't want to spend that much." I think it would change my thoughts. Some people tune out anything after see a negative response. I don't know if that is what happened in this case.

 

Personally, after the seller removed himself from the topic, I would consider myself free to purchase a different copy. Why? Because the third step wasn't an acceptance but a rejection. I feel bad because it looks like you wanted to hold up your end and missed out on another copy. But I don't see all the elements here that made the deal solid.

 

 

 

That's not how contracts work. It's offer and acceptance, not "offer, acceptance, acceptance".

 

If, after the offer was made, he tried to change the terms (ask for free shipping, time payments, any change to what the seller offered) then the seller would have to accept those changes.

 

There was no change here, It was a straight offer and acceptance. There's no further requirement for the seller to do anything but perform his end of the agreement (delivering the item) after the buyer performs his end of the agreement (paying for the item).

 

The seller can't reject what was an acceptance of his terms, fully and without alteration.

 

If the seller wanted to rescind his offer he would have had to do so before the purchaser accepted. Which he didn't do. Offering an additional option for purchasing does not replace the original offer unless expressly stated.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

 

 

Bingo, this is against a few hundred years of established contract law.

 

Seller: $

Buyer: Accepted

Seller: I accept your Acceptance

Buyer I accept your acceptance of my acceptance

Seller: I reject your acceptance of the accepted acceptance.

 

 

The time for rescission is GONE as soon as the buyer accepts the terms.

[comix4fun]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

[gaz973]

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication.

 

How can the seller not have agreed to it? he offered the deal.

 

How can he offer a deal and then not agree to the deal he offered? It doesn't make any sense.

[comix4fun]

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication.

 

How can the seller not have agreed to it? he offered the deal.

 

How can he offer a deal and then not agree to the deal he offered? It doesn't make any sense.

 

 

I reject your rejection of nocutename's rejection of the OP's rejection of the sellers rejection of his acceptance.

 

There you go...clear and mud.

[AndyBoBo]

 

 

That's not how contracts work. It's offer and acceptance, not "offer, acceptance, acceptance".

 

If, after the offer was made, he tried to change the terms (ask for free shipping, time payments, any change to what the seller offered) then the seller would have to accept those changes.

 

There was no change here, It was a straight offer and acceptance. There's no further requirement for the seller to do anything but perform his end of the agreement (delivering the item) after the buyer performs his end of the agreement (paying for the item).

 

The seller can't reject what was an acceptance of his terms, fully and without alteration.

 

If the seller wanted to rescind his offer he would have had to do so before the purchaser accepted. Which he didn't do. Offering an additional option for purchasing does not replace the original offer unless expressly stated.

 

 

I'm TA'ing a first year contracts class this semester; please continue onto consideration when you have a chance!