PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[comix4fun]

 

 

That's not how contracts work. It's offer and acceptance, not "offer, acceptance, acceptance".

 

If, after the offer was made, he tried to change the terms (ask for free shipping, time payments, any change to what the seller offered) then the seller would have to accept those changes.

 

There was no change here, It was a straight offer and acceptance. There's no further requirement for the seller to do anything but perform his end of the agreement (delivering the item) after the buyer performs his end of the agreement (paying for the item).

 

The seller can't reject what was an acceptance of his terms, fully and without alteration.

 

If the seller wanted to rescind his offer he would have had to do so before the purchaser accepted. Which he didn't do. Offering an additional option for purchasing does not replace the original offer unless expressly stated.

 

 

I'm TA'ing a first year contracts class this semester; please continue onto consideration when you have a chance!

 

Please insert 4 quarters into the USB port on the back of your computer for 3 additional minutes.

[AndyBoBo]

^ PRICELESS!!!!

[nocutename]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

[RogueOneRebels]

Its a matter of opinion.

 

 

I think it is offer / accept / handshake - agree (confirmation)

 

If there is no virtual handshake how can the offer be considered a deal?

[RogueOneRebels]

Everyone is so Judist around here and prosecutes someone without knowing all the facts and history.

 

Now I know why Mike Vick went through so much and took so long to regain his name even though we should give 2nd chances and not burn people at the stake!

 

I have never seen so many folks who think they are Judge Dredd in one place!

 

Edited September 10, 2012 by campbelljh3

[nocutename]

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication.

 

How can the seller not have agreed to it? he offered the deal.

 

How can he offer a deal and then not agree to the deal he offered? It doesn't make any sense.

 

There could be a million reasons. The time period between offering and buyer actually accepting the book, the book could be sold or could get destroyed or just plain seller not wanting to sell it. Do we have rules for private sales in the sale forum?

 

[comix4fun]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

 

 

It's standard business practice. There's no market in the world that expects everyone to stand there nodding their acceptance back and forth repeatedly, like a pair of bobbleheads as they exchange money for goods.

 

I reject the notion that this is some sort of "short bus" version of real commerce. We are all adults. We offer, we accept, we pay, we ship. There aren't special rules just for this place. You want to do business? You do it the right way or you don't do it at all.

 

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine of people bowing before each other like Gaijinn businessmen on their first trip to Tokyo.

 

[Shark]

Its a matter of opinion.

 

 

I think it is offer / accept / handshake - agree (confirmation)

 

If there is no virtual handshake how can the offer be considered a deal?

 

Because if you offer something up at a certain price and the buyer accepts that price, then it's a done deal. Period.

[RogueOneRebels]

Disagree

[comix4fun]

Its a matter of opinion.

 

 

I think it is offer / accept / handshake - agree (confirmation)

 

If there is no virtual handshake how can the offer be considered a deal?

 

 

So you are proposing that no deal is ever done on the boards? Really?

 

The offer can be considered a deal because the guy selling it set his price and the guy buying it said "Yes, I'll take it". They agree already, no need for a handshake, because every terms laid out by the seller has been agreed to by the buyer.

 

It doesn't get easier, more simple, or more basic than that.

[nocutename]

Seller: $

Buyer: Yes

Seller: accept or reject

 

Not sure if I agree with this.

I read it like this:

 

Seller: The book is $100.

Buyer: Okay. Done deal.

 

Why state a price for me on a book you're selling only to reject me after I agree?

 

I agree with you, The person gave a price and it was accepted. It's no different from a buyer placing the in a sales thread and expecting the sale to go ahead

 

By nocutename reasoning once the is placed in the thread we should all be waiting for a resonse from the seller agreeing the buyers agreeance

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

 

A sales thread is completely different than a private sale like this. In a sales thread, we have board rules on how a thread is conducted. I don't believe we have such rules for PM or non-sales thread sales. Which is why when these go awry, there is confusion as to if this is a probation issue. Perhaps, the boards should have some guidelines about closed deals like this.

 

I still stand by my opinion that this isn't one. The seller removed himself from the PM, thereby rejecting the acceptance. The buyer could have sent a separate PM with a new acceptance but didn't.

 

respectfully I would disagree, once a price is offered to a potential buyer I am trying to sell him an item. Just as I would if it was a sales thread on the boards. When he says he will buy that item I consider it sold and plan accordingly.

 

Let me ask this. If Fox had said ok but then decided he didnt want the book and removed himself from the PM topic would he be on the probation list right now? I am almost 99% sure that everyone here would be fine with the seller nominating him to the list even if the seller didnt say after Fox stated he would take the book at the offered price via PM.

 

That raises a good point and yes I would feel that Fox would be on the hook in your case. From his end he has communicated that he wants the book for x amount.

[RogueOneRebels]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

 

 

It's standard business practice. There's no market in the world that expects everyone to stand there nodding their acceptance back and forth repeatedly, like a pair of bobbleheads as they exchange money for goods.

 

I reject the notion that this is some sort of "short bus" version of real commerce. We are all adults. We offer, we accept, we pay, we ship. There aren't special rules just for this place. You want to do business? You do it the right way or you don't do it at all.

 

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine of people bowing before each other like Gaijinn businessmen on their first trip to Tokyo.

 

 

Apparently there are rules and they need to be defined. One person might feel one way while the other person perceives it another

 

[comix4fun]

Disagree

 

 

If you ever run a business, please consult an attorney before using this opinion, or it will cost you extremely large amounts of money to find out that the rest of the world, business and the law stand 100% on the other side of the issue from you.

[nocutename]

That would be smart and I would but I deleted the discussion because I did not think he wanted it! Same point I have been making!

 

Again if I still had the book I would have gladly sold it for $700, as pointed out before no one else would pay that price.

 

I must admit I'm slightly confused. In his want to buy thread, the seller states he no longer has the book. I wish he'd post here and explain that one. Did he sell it before Matt replied?

 

 

Sharon, for me there are a few things unclear about the exchange of communication and when the book was sold. For that matter when the other book was offered for sale. I have a hard time understanding how someone here for 6 years doesn't understand how removing one from a PM works.

[RogueOneRebels]

Disagree

 

 

If you ever run a business, please consult an attorney before using this opinion, or it will cost you extremely large amounts of money to find out that the rest of the world, business and the law stand 100% on the other side of the issue from you.

 

 

Where is this written? I actually have run very successful businesses

[RogueOneRebels]

If someone lists something for sale in standard board selling forum and someone says I will take it

 

That is pretty clear cut and documented

 

 

If someone approaches you and ask will you take this and you say that is probably the lowest I will go and then never respond the deal was never finalized

[comix4fun]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

 

 

It's standard business practice. There's no market in the world that expects everyone to stand there nodding their acceptance back and forth repeatedly, like a pair of bobbleheads as they exchange money for goods.

 

I reject the notion that this is some sort of "short bus" version of real commerce. We are all adults. We offer, we accept, we pay, we ship. There aren't special rules just for this place. You want to do business? You do it the right way or you don't do it at all.

 

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine of people bowing before each other like Gaijinn businessmen on their first trip to Tokyo.

 

 

 

Apparently there are rules and they need to be defined. One person might feel one way while the other person perceives it another

 

 

 

They are defined.

They are defined by society, by the law, by standard business practices, by common sense, and by simple logic.

 

They are also defined on these boards.

 

Seller offers a book.

 

Buyer posts a

 

THEY ARE NOW BOTH BOUND TO PERFORM.

 

No secret handshakes, no tribal fertility dances, no drinking of first blood together. It's a simple business transaction.

 

Offer, Acceptance, Mutual Performance.

 

If the buyer was the one who said he'd be on the probie list in short order for doing what this seller is doing.

[nocutename]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

 

 

It's standard business practice. There's no market in the world that expects everyone to stand there nodding their acceptance back and forth repeatedly, like a pair of bobbleheads as they exchange money for goods.

 

I reject the notion that this is some sort of "short bus" version of real commerce. We are all adults. We offer, we accept, we pay, we ship. There aren't special rules just for this place. You want to do business? You do it the right way or you don't do it at all.

 

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine of people bowing before each other like Gaijinn businessmen on their first trip to Tokyo.

 

Face to face transaction: Seller - Yeah I'll sell it for x. Buyer - I guess I will take it then. Seller not liking the reply, states you know what it isn't for sale anymore. This doesn't happen ever? I see this happen at garage sales, LCSs and in small privately owned stores all the time. The seller has the final word to accept or reject, they own the item. Does it make it right, no.

[RogueOneRebels]

 

The seller has to agree to it else you have what happened here no sale or miscommunication. My opinions are never in the popular camp but I give them anyway. Just because the Buyer agrees doesn't make it a done deal as the seller still has acknowledge the deal.

.

 

 

It's ok to have your opinion but, factually, it's completely outside the bounds of accepted business practices and established law.

 

But most sellers aren't lawyers. I knew you would chime in with contract law. Once again, I am not going to debate you. This is a comic forum with first time sellers or sellers with little experience. These behind the door transactions need two communication. Once that stops the transaction stops. That is just common sense.

 

 

It's standard business practice. There's no market in the world that expects everyone to stand there nodding their acceptance back and forth repeatedly, like a pair of bobbleheads as they exchange money for goods.

 

I reject the notion that this is some sort of "short bus" version of real commerce. We are all adults. We offer, we accept, we pay, we ship. There aren't special rules just for this place. You want to do business? You do it the right way or you don't do it at all.

 

What you are proposing is a perpetual motion machine of people bowing before each other like Gaijinn businessmen on their first trip to Tokyo.

 

Face to face transaction: Seller - Yeah I'll sell it for x. Buyer - I guess I will take it then. Seller not liking the reply, states you know what it isn't for sale anymore. This doesn't happen ever? I see this happen at garage sales, LCSs and in small privately owned stores all the time. The seller has the final word to accept or reject, they own the item. Does it make it right, no.

 

 

Excellent POINT!

[Heresy]

If someone approaches you and ask will you take this and you say that is probably the lowest I will go and then never respond the deal was never finalized

 

Except that isn't what happened, you PMd "If you decide you want for $675 let me know. I would have to charge $25 to ship it registered mail so I can insure and track it all the way to you."