PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Speedy-D]

I am not a cold hearted person. But I saw no remorse or reasonable explanation for the lack of communication. There is a history of this kind of behavior, where does it end? Should an example be made that this type of repeated behavior should not be tolerated? I think so. He might be the nicest guy in the world, but that doesn't mean he's a good businessman.

If you think it's time, put him up for the HoS. Otherwise, he's gotta be able to get off the PL.

 

And for the record Brent, I think 3 or 6 months after trying to make amends is way too long. What would the point of that be, just punishment? I don't think we want to get into the punishment game.

 

If you screw up a deal, you go on the list until you make good. If the other guy won't let you, then you get off for free. :shrug:

[Logan510]

I don't want to be the one to be keeping such an upstanding member on the PL...so I vote to take him off the list.

[skypinkblu]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

What I had suggested was either a list of the boardies who were involved, or waiting 30 days to see if they show up. My concern was that they get to voice their side.

 

I know some people are happy, but I don't know how many people were involved to begin with...Are Logan and Pirate 50% of the people, 10%? Were all the people contacted, and did they all respond in some manner?

 

I don't think 6 months is necessary, but do we need to rush?

 

[thehumantorch]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

[PovertyRow]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

[mikenyc]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

In any and all situations, or in this particular instance?

 

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to accept, if and when I attempt to make amends? And if they choose not to, the perpetrator should be removed anyway?

 

It undermines the entire spirit of the list. It's not the fault of the wronged party for not agreeing to remove the individual, it's the fault of the individual who acted in whatever manner that landed them on the PL in the first place.

Edited November 10, 2012 by mikenyc

[JazzMan]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

But it has happened. This would not be the first time.

[PovertyRow]

[

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to make amends?

 

Where is this coming from? If you rip off a boardie, send a different book or don't send it due to PayPal Personal, what did you do, as the one who ripped off the boardie, to make amends?

 

 

[PovertyRow]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

But it has happened. This would not be the first time.

 

Then that should be addressed too. Who was involved in this?

[mikenyc]

[

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to make amends?

 

Where is this coming from? If you rip off a boardie, send a different book or don't send it due to PayPal Personal, what did you do, as the one who ripped off the boardie, to make amends?

 

 

Clarified my post.

[Speedy-D]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

In any and all situations, or in this particular instance?

 

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to accept, if and when I attempt to make amends? And if they choose not to, the perpetrator should be removed anyway?

 

It undermines the entire spirit of the list. It's not the fault of the wronged party for not agreeing to remove the individual, it's the fault of the individual who acted in whatever manner that landed them on the PL in the first place.

Am I missing something here? If you think someone's behaved so badly that they should never be forgiven, or be allowed to make amends, then put them in the HoS. The PL is meant to be temporary.

[PovertyRow]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

In any and all situations, or in this particular instance?

 

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to accept, if and when I attempt to make amends? And if they choose not to, the perpetrator should be removed anyway?

 

It undermines the entire spirit of the list. It's not the fault of the wronged party for not agreeing to remove the individual, it's the fault of the individual who acted in whatever manner that landed them on the PL in the first place.

Am I missing something here? If you think someone's behaved so badly that they should never be forgiven, or be allowed to make amends, then put them in the HoS. The PL is meant to be temporary.

 

I agree here. It is why it is called a PROBATION list. The folks there are on Probation and given the opportunity to make amends.

[PovertyRow]

I made a suggestion to Sharon via PM that maybe offenders could be put on a 3 or 6 month waiting time after resolution/resolution offered before being taken off the list or they could voluntarily agree to not put on any sales threads for 3 or 6 months after resolution/resolution offered.

 

I don't think boardies should be able to keep other boardies on the probation list. I'm not saying it's the case in this case, but if one boardie bears a grudge, it can be leveraged on the probation list forever. That is not just.

 

And that gets at the heart of it.

 

Should a boardie be allowed to keep someone on the probation list out of anger even after they've done their best to fix the problem?

 

 

They should not.

 

In any and all situations, or in this particular instance?

 

So if, for arguements sake, I rip off a buyer and send a different book or take PayPal personal and don't send the book, the boardie I ripped off should be forced to accept, if and when I attempt to make amends? And if they choose not to, the perpetrator should be removed anyway?

 

It undermines the entire spirit of the list. It's not the fault of the wronged party for not agreeing to remove the individual, it's the fault of the individual who acted in whatever manner that landed them on the PL in the first place.

 

Again, that is the difference between HOS and Probation List. the PL is not meant to be permanent. The HOS is meant to be permanent unless there is a majority vote to get removed.

 

BUT - the criteria you are using after changing your post (which you informed us so no fault there) is totally unrelated to the criteria in the case of Qualitycomix.

 

There is a difference between trying to make rules that encompass a wide variety of circumstances and actually discussing a particular offense. both have there place but they should not be intermingled.

 

So for now let's stick to the issue with Qualitycomix. If you have other issues with the PL/HOS rules in general definitely bring them up, but please don't relate them to this case if your examples have nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Povertyrow

[Sqeggs]

As someone who buys on the boards pretty frequently, I have a strong desire to keep out sellers who don't play by the rules. Apparently, this seller has failed to play by the rules on multiple occasions -- at least if I'm understanding the incidents in Sharon's links correctly. But I agree with Speedy that the PL is not the HoS. So, unless someone wants to initiate the process of putting him in the HoS, I think he should come off the PL.

 

One thing that seems pretty clear, though, is that this seller is down to his last strike. If another incident occurs, I don't see how he will be able to stay out of the HoS. Given that he sells in other venues under the same name, I would think that the threat of being inducted into the HoS would be a pretty strong deterrent to engaging in similar behavior in the future. But, who knows?

[qualitycomix]

As someone who buys on the boards pretty frequently, I have a strong desire to keep out sellers who don't play by the rules. Apparently, this seller has failed to play by the rules on multiple occasions -- at least if I'm understanding the incidents in Sharon's links correctly. But I agree with Speedy that the PL is not the HoS. So, unless someone wants to initiate the process of putting him in the HoS, I think he should come off the PL.

 

One thing that seems pretty clear, though, is that this seller is down to his last strike. If another incident occurs, I don't see how he will be able to stay out of the HoS. Given that he sells in other venues under the same name, I would think that the threat of being inducted into the HoS would be a pretty strong deterrent to engaging in similar behavior in the future. But, who knows?

 

I've played by the rules on the boards except I didn't send out invoices from this sales thread. Prior to that, I've had years and years of sales on the boards with no problems.

[joeypost]

As someone who buys on the boards pretty frequently, I have a strong desire to keep out sellers who don't play by the rules. Apparently, this seller has failed to play by the rules on multiple occasions -- at least if I'm understanding the incidents in Sharon's links correctly. But I agree with Speedy that the PL is not the HoS. So, unless someone wants to initiate the process of putting him in the HoS, I think he should come off the PL.

 

One thing that seems pretty clear, though, is that this seller is down to his last strike. If another incident occurs, I don't see how he will be able to stay out of the HoS. Given that he sells in other venues under the same name, I would think that the threat of being inducted into the HoS would be a pretty strong deterrent to engaging in similar behavior in the future. But, who knows?

 

So you are planning on keeping him on the list in the event he does something else in the future?

 

As someone who also does a lot of buying and selling on these boards I do not agree with your statement. If Quality Comics has made everyone whole I see no reason to leave him on the list. Determining if that has happened with everyone involved seems to be the question.

 

 

[Boozad]

Did Quality Comix actually take money from anybody? I understand that the PL is for people who fail to complete a transaction in 30 days, but considering he didn't actually take any payments I don't see that what he did was actually that bad. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be nominated to the PL and his procrastination was silly to say the least, and I daresay he hasn't done his reputation any favours in the process.

 

But he's offered to send books out for the cost of shipping which seems as far as he can go for making things right. He doesn't owe people money or books so I'm struggling to see what else he can do. His excuse aside, and the time it took to offer that up, I don't see a reason why he should stay on there other than people being pissed at him.

[Green]

Did Quality Comix actually take money from anybody? I understand that the PL is for people who fail to complete a transaction in 30 days, but considering he didn't actually take any payments I don't see that what he did was actually that bad. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be nominated to the PL and his procrastination was silly to say the least, and I daresay he hasn't done his reputation any favours in the process.

It should be no different than posting an ill take it and not paying.

 

If throw up and never pay, i havnt taking anything that isnt mine so by your logic is just all good.

 

3rd party opinions should have no influence whatsoever. It is up to the wronged parties and only the wronged parties to decide the fate of the person on the list IMO

 

I know that if i put someone on the list and im not ready for them to come off, i would be being a hell of a lot less polite than the two people in this instance. There wouldnt be much of a discussion about it.

[Sqeggs]

As someone who buys on the boards pretty frequently, I have a strong desire to keep out sellers who don't play by the rules. Apparently, this seller has failed to play by the rules on multiple occasions -- at least if I'm understanding the incidents in Sharon's links correctly. But I agree with Speedy that the PL is not the HoS. So, unless someone wants to initiate the process of putting him in the HoS, I think he should come off the PL.

 

One thing that seems pretty clear, though, is that this seller is down to his last strike. If another incident occurs, I don't see how he will be able to stay out of the HoS. Given that he sells in other venues under the same name, I would think that the threat of being inducted into the HoS would be a pretty strong deterrent to engaging in similar behavior in the future. But, who knows?

 

So you are planning on keeping him on the list in the event he does something else in the future?

 

As someone who also does a lot of buying and selling on these boards I do not agree with your statement. If Quality Comics has made everyone whole I see no reason to leave him on the list. Determining if that has happened with everyone involved seems to be the question.

 

 

I think you missed the part of what I wrote now highlighted in bold above. I would take him off the list.

 

Have you read the linked threads about his previous activities? Unlike eBay, on these boards we don't have an easy way of checking a seller's feedback. I've had no dealings with this seller but I am put off by his track record as revealed by the discussion in this thread over the past few days.

 

Putting aside the particulars of this case, my hope is that we don't allow sellers to misbehave, get put on the PL, repent, get taken off the PL, misbehave again, repent again, etc. Following that course doesn't provide enough protection for buyers, which (I hope) is the main goal.

[joeypost]

As someone who buys on the boards pretty frequently, I have a strong desire to keep out sellers who don't play by the rules. Apparently, this seller has failed to play by the rules on multiple occasions -- at least if I'm understanding the incidents in Sharon's links correctly. But I agree with Speedy that the PL is not the HoS. So, unless someone wants to initiate the process of putting him in the HoS, I think he should come off the PL.

 

One thing that seems pretty clear, though, is that this seller is down to his last strike. If another incident occurs, I don't see how he will be able to stay out of the HoS. Given that he sells in other venues under the same name, I would think that the threat of being inducted into the HoS would be a pretty strong deterrent to engaging in similar behavior in the future. But, who knows?

 

So you are planning on keeping him on the list in the event he does something else in the future?

 

As someone who also does a lot of buying and selling on these boards I do not agree with your statement. If Quality Comics has made everyone whole I see no reason to leave him on the list. Determining if that has happened with everyone involved seems to be the question.

 

 

I think you missed the part of what I wrote now highlighted in bold above. I would take him off the list.

 

Have you read the linked threads about his previous activities? Unlike eBay, on these boards we don't have an easy way of checking a seller's feedback. I've had no dealings with this seller but I am put off by his track record as revealed by the discussion in this thread over the past few days.

 

Putting aside the particulars of this case, my hope is that we don't allow sellers to misbehave, get put on the PL, repent, get taken off the PL, misbehave again, repent again, etc. Following that course doesn't provide enough protection for buyers, which (I hope) is the main goal.

 

I have read all the post in reference to Brent. If he has made ammends he should be taken off the list.

 

I believe in keeping the buying and selling honest and certain measures need to be in place for that to happen. At times, some people tend to take these guidelines a little too far. Given enough time, the bad seeds always rise to the ocassion and find themselves on the HOS.