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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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Started by alwaysbronze,

36,203 posts in this topic

vader2001

vader2001

Posted
Posted
Okay I will admit defeat. There are enough boardies posting that dont have a financial incentive to make clear they want the mystery boxes to continue. I just tried to point a problem that will eventually happen again with these.

 

 

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue?

 

the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate.

 

Scenario 1:

User A buys Action 1 from User B

User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$.

Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with.

 

Scenario 2:

User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so.

User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes.

User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption.

How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the Seller to say "and thats the one that got the RRP!"

 

As others have said, buy from long standing users you trust and they arent going to sacrifice their board reputation for a few scammed bucks.

 

Buy from a new seller with under 100 posts? Avoid....

 

Right, I understand that you don't know what you are getting, but you can still loose your $$ the same way you can if you buy a single comic. Banning them just because of the unknown is like buying a raw off of ebay you just don't know.

 

Its not even close to the same. You get a book with a grade and price. A scan is usually provided as well. You can inquire ask questions and pretty well know what you are getting. You can do the same on ebay with a raw book.

 

What you cant do is any of the above usually with a mystery box auction unless its done in an almost transparent fashion which makes it more like selling a lot. Alot of very picky buyers on here.

 

You can lose your $$ on either, but you can't dictate how people want to spend their $$. It's simple if you don't like mystery boxes don't buy and if you do go ahead. But please I don't want YOU telling me on what I can and can't buy.

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Anfield Fox

Anfield Fox

Posted
Posted
40 votes, 90% of which were to place smashdash in the HOS.

 

Especially with his misrepresentation of expensive books in some of the boxes he didn't even own, it's the right decision to make.

 

You should add his real name to make it harder for him if he returns with a new ID.

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lonetree

lonetree

Posted
Posted

Well I have a newbie to add to the Probation List.

 

In Eary Dec (maybe late Nov), Mkkiller posted a WTB thread.

 

12/3/12, I sent him a PM listed a few of the books I had available. Scanned the images.

12/7, He said he definitely wanted the hero For Hire #1. Sent me his zip code to price shipping.

12/8, I provide shipping costs and PayPal address.

12/10, Asked if he was still interested in the book.

12/10, he responded :yes i am i juut have to wait at this moment in time to get it "

12/10, I asked for a time frame.

12/10, he responded "i get paid abotu every 2 weeks so sometime around the 15th "

12/12, he responded "i will have payment to you tmrw \:\)"

12/27, I asked about payment

12/28, he responded "not yet i have bills to take care of, before i do some spending"

02/02, asked about payment, he read the PM, but has not responded

 

Meanwhile, Looks like he had some books done during the Sam Keith signing last month.

 

Thanks,

Brian

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Shark

Shark

Posted
Posted
Well I have a newbie to add to the Probation List.

 

In Eary Dec (maybe late Nov), Mkkiller posted a WTB thread.

 

12/3/12, I sent him a PM listed a few of the books I had available. Scanned the images.

12/7, He said he definitely wanted the hero For Hire #1. Sent me his zip code to price shipping.

12/8, I provide shipping costs and PayPal address.

12/10, Asked if he was still interested in the book.

12/10, he responded :yes i am i juut have to wait at this moment in time to get it "

12/10, I asked for a time frame.

12/10, he responded "i get paid abotu every 2 weeks so sometime around the 15th "

12/12, he responded "i will have payment to you tmrw \:\)"

12/27, I asked about payment

12/28, he responded "not yet i have bills to take care of, before i do some spending"

02/02, asked about payment, he read the PM, but has not responded

 

Meanwhile, Looks like he had some books done during the Sam Keith signing last month.

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

This is the same guy who I responded to with a big long list (30-35) of books he was looking for, gave me no response whatsoever (not even a no) and proceeded to "remove himself from this topic" without so much as a word. He's already shown that he does what he wants when he wants and could care less about anybody but himself. :facepalm:

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miraclemet

miraclemet

Posted
Posted
Okay I will admit defeat. There are enough boardies posting that dont have a financial incentive to make clear they want the mystery boxes to continue. I just tried to point a problem that will eventually happen again with these.

 

 

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue?

 

the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate.

 

Scenario 1:

User A buys Action 1 from User B

User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$.

Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with.

 

Scenario 2:

User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so.

User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes.

User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption.

How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the Seller to say "and thats the one that got the RRP!"

 

As others have said, buy from long standing users you trust and they arent going to sacrifice their board reputation for a few scammed bucks.

 

Buy from a new seller with under 100 posts? Avoid....

 

Right, I understand that you don't know what you are getting, but you can still loose your $$ the same way you can if you buy a single comic. Banning them just because of the unknown is like buying a raw off of ebay you just don't know.

 

Its not even close to the same. You get a book with a grade and price. A scan is usually provided as well. You can inquire ask questions and pretty well know what you are getting. You can do the same on ebay with a raw book.

 

What you cant do is any of the above usually with a mystery box auction unless its done in an almost transparent fashion which makes it more like selling a lot. Alot of very picky buyers on here.

 

You can lose your $$ on either, but you can't dictate how people want to spend their $$. It's simple if you don't like mystery boxes don't buy and if you do go ahead. But please I don't want YOU telling me on what I can and can't buy.

 

I dont think the point is being made around dictating how people want to spend their money. I think the point is being made around the potential difficulty in determining if a fair sale was made (when doing a mystery box trade). [caveat to all of this, I'm still in favor of allowing them and letting it be a buyer beware, everyone make their own decision about whether to send $$ to a low post newbie making promises]

 

A newbie can come on, sell a book that someone buys and pays for. It is easy enough to determine if both parties held up their ends of the transaction. Lots of people here buy from new users, we take the risk. When we get burned it can be probation worthy until things are made right. Maybe the books are overgraded, mabe they didnt even send the books, maybe they intentionally sent the wrong one and packed up and left with the $$$. In those cases we can know if both parties met their obligation.

 

With a mystery box sale it is tougher to determine if the seller met their obligation. Yes as long as they send you a mystery box as described, they met PART of their obligation. But in smashdash's sale part of what the buyer were buying was a chance at some bigger ticket books (why this mystery box sale was different than others), how do you (as a buyer) prove that you didn't actually get a chance at the Big Ticket book? (This is part of why states have Lottery commissions, and regulate casinos)

 

Again, Im in favor of keeping mystery boxes around, but would STRONGLY encourage the community to push for those listing these types of sales to be transparent, and to document the process of the distribution. (Still could totally be a con even then, but thats when you allow people to decide whether they want to give $50 to someone they've never dealt with before).

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miraclemet

miraclemet

Posted
Posted
Well I have a newbie to add to the Probation List.

 

In Eary Dec (maybe late Nov), Mkkiller posted a WTB thread.

 

12/3/12, I sent him a PM listed a few of the books I had available. Scanned the images.

12/7, He said he definitely wanted the hero For Hire #1. Sent me his zip code to price shipping.

12/8, I provide shipping costs and PayPal address.

12/10, Asked if he was still interested in the book.

12/10, he responded :yes i am i juut have to wait at this moment in time to get it "

12/10, I asked for a time frame.

12/10, he responded "i get paid abotu every 2 weeks so sometime around the 15th "

12/12, he responded "i will have payment to you tmrw \:\)"

12/27, I asked about payment

12/28, he responded "not yet i have bills to take care of, before i do some spending"

02/02, asked about payment, he read the PM, but has not responded

 

Meanwhile, Looks like he had some books done during the Sam Keith signing last month.

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

This is the same guy who I responded to with a big long list (30-35) of books he was looking for, gave me no response whatsoever (not even a no) and proceeded to "remove himself from this topic" without so much as a word. He's already shown that he does what he wants when he wants and could care less about anybody but himself. :facepalm:

 

To bad you cant just ban people from posting in the WTB thread... seems that people get ahead of themselves posting in that thread (their own fault).

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The-Collector

The-Collector

Posted
Posted
Okay I will admit defeat. There are enough boardies posting that dont have a financial incentive to make clear they want the mystery boxes to continue. I just tried to point a problem that will eventually happen again with these.

 

 

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue?

 

the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate.

 

Scenario 1:

User A buys Action 1 from User B

User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$.

Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with.

 

Scenario 2:

User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so.

User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes.

User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption.

How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the

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miraclemet

miraclemet

Posted
Posted
Okay I will admit defeat. There are enough boardies posting that dont have a financial incentive to make clear they want the mystery boxes to continue. I just tried to point a problem that will eventually happen again with these.

 

 

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue?

 

the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate.

 

Scenario 1:

User A buys Action 1 from User B

User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$.

Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with.

 

Scenario 2:

User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so.

User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes.

User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption.

How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the

 

Exactly. In scenario 2 what if theres a post by the seller that "Mystery Box 8 sold per PM" since some people dont like to do their buys in public, and we dont require buyer info to be disclosed couldnt the Seller just say "oh year I guess box 8 has the Action Comics #1"... So we could cover some sketchiness by saying All mystery box sales must be in-thread/public purchases?

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seanfingh

seanfingh

Posted
Posted
Well I have a newbie to add to the Probation List.

 

In Eary Dec (maybe late Nov), Mkkiller posted a WTB thread.

 

12/3/12, I sent him a PM listed a few of the books I had available. Scanned the images.

12/7, He said he definitely wanted the hero For Hire #1. Sent me his zip code to price shipping.

12/8, I provide shipping costs and PayPal address.

12/10, Asked if he was still interested in the book.

12/10, he responded :yes i am i juut have to wait at this moment in time to get it "

12/10, I asked for a time frame.

12/10, he responded "i get paid abotu every 2 weeks so sometime around the 15th "

12/12, he responded "i will have payment to you tmrw \:\)"

12/27, I asked about payment

12/28, he responded "not yet i have bills to take care of, before i do some spending"

02/02, asked about payment, he read the PM, but has not responded

 

Meanwhile, Looks like he had some books done during the Sam Keith signing last month.

 

Thanks,

Brian

 

This is the same guy who I responded to with a big long list (30-35) of books he was looking for, gave me no response whatsoever (not even a no) and proceeded to "remove himself from this topic" without so much as a word. He's already shown that he does what he wants when he wants and could care less about anybody but himself. :facepalm:

 

He came in with guns a blazin'

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Balham's Finest

Balham's Finest

Posted
Posted
Okay I will admit defeat. There are enough boardies posting that dont have a financial incentive to make clear they want the mystery boxes to continue. I just tried to point a problem that will eventually happen again with these.

 

 

But what difference does it make if its a mystery box or a single issue?

 

the difference is a mystery box is tougher to validate.

 

Scenario 1:

User A buys Action 1 from User B

User A ends up with the stated book, User B ends up with correct ammount of $$$.

Pretty straight forward. Issues might be around non-disclosed restoration, or grading disagreements, which can be raised, and dealt with.

 

Scenario 2:

User A buys one of 20 mystery boxes from User B who stated that one box would contain a Saga #1 RRP, the rest would be Image books worth $50 or so.

User B keeps the RRP and doesnt put it in any of the 20 boxes.

User A gets his books(no RRP) and assumes he didn't "win" the RRP, but the other 19 buyers also make the same assumption.

How does this get checked? All it takes is 1 buyer to not reveal his mystery box contents for the

 

Exactly. In scenario 2 what if theres a post by the seller that "Mystery Box 8 sold per PM" since some people dont like to do their buys in public, and we dont require buyer info to be disclosed couldnt the Seller just say "oh year I guess box 8 has the Action Comics #1"... So we could cover some sketchiness by saying All mystery box sales must be in-thread/public purchases?

 

Not a bad suggestion - but even if you do that, there's no realistic way of compelling every one the purchasers to reveal what they got (i.e. if one of them got a "prize" item).

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