PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[skypinkblu]

Wow. I'm starting to wonder the point of the list.

 

When we started worrying about how ups could get off the list before they were even added i started wondering the same thing.

 

Reality is, the probation list is no longer the warning it once was. Its just a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction. It could serve both purposes, but i guess we as a community have groomed it to operate this way.

 

Your description of the PL as "a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction" is a good one, and to me that's the virtue of the PL, its supposed to facilitate solutions to problems. Once a solution has been found there is no sense or purpose to it being a warning about anything. If the problems don't get solved a name or names remain on the PL and that stands as a warning to other members.

 

Indeed its a warning in two senses, as its also a deterrent.

 

Well said!

[N/A]

Wow. I'm starting to wonder the point of the list.

 

When we started worrying about how ups could get off the list before they were even added i started wondering the same thing.

 

Reality is, the probation list is no longer the warning it once was. Its just a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction. It could serve both purposes, but i guess we as a community have groomed it to operate this way.

 

Your description of the PL as "a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction" is a good one, and to me that's the virtue of the PL, its supposed to facilitate solutions to problems. Once a solution has been found there is no sense or purpose to it being a warning about anything. If the problems don't get solved a name or names remain on the PL and that stands as a warning to other members.

 

Indeed its a warning in two senses, as its also a deterrent.

 

Well said!

 

Just because it can be used does not mean it always should be used. The knee jerk reaction of someone posted and didn't pay therefore onto the probation list to me is an easy way out for sellers.

 

I offer returns. If a buyer has an issue I would like to know before I spend money to ship the comic. I also do not understand the mentality of now you have to give me your money. In the vast majority of cases the seller appears unharmed. So being on the PL is warning me of what exactly?

[thunderstick]

I'd like to just put out a reminder to everyone, especially those who are perhaps too trusting;

 

It's my advice to anyone and everyone that unless you personally know the person you are purchasing items from you only use PayPal. Never send a check or money order regardless of how long the board member has had an account here or how many posts the person may have. You have absolutely no recourse should the deal go sour.

 

If after 40 days of your PayPal transaction you have not received your item(s), immediately file a dispute with PayPal. You only officially have 45 days to do this but it's better done early than late.

 

Do not hesitate to file the dispute claim no matter who the board member is and do not be a victim of stalling tactics that may prevent you from filing a claim within the allowable window.

Edited January 29, 2013 by thunderstick

[N/A]

Good advice.

[seanfingh]

Wow. I'm starting to wonder the point of the list.

 

When we started worrying about how ups could get off the list before they were even added i started wondering the same thing.

 

Reality is, the probation list is no longer the warning it once was. Its just a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction. It could serve both purposes, but i guess we as a community have groomed it to operate this way.

 

Your description of the PL as "a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction" is a good one, and to me that's the virtue of the PL, its supposed to facilitate solutions to problems. Once a solution has been found there is no sense or purpose to it being a warning about anything. If the problems don't get solved a name or names remain on the PL and that stands as a warning to other members.

 

Indeed its a warning in two senses, as its also a deterrent.

 

Well said!

 

Just because it can be used does not mean it always should be used. The knee jerk reaction of someone posted and didn't pay therefore onto the probation list to me is an easy way out for sellers.

 

I offer returns. If a buyer has an issue I would like to know before I spend money to ship the comic. I also do not understand the mentality of now you have to give me your money. In the vast majority of cases the seller appears unharmed. So being on the PL is warning me of what exactly?

 

Jeff, you have made no bones about being willing to let people back out, and also of backing out as a buyer. That is fine. It is a perfectly viable belief. But the idea that backing out leaves the seller unharmed is unprovable, and, most likely wrong.

 

Potential buyers who see the book as sold move on and spend their money on something else, or they get the same item elsewhere. I think that happens a lot. I disagree with your blasé "no harm, no foul" premise.

[N/A]

Well it's about time you showed up. I was wondering if your radar was on he fritz.

 

I may be incorrect about the percentage of times sellers are not impacted. Surely though not every costs the seller a sale. And just to clarify because although the message is similar I see them as quite different. I don't think the buyer has a right to back out. My message is to sellers that you do have the option of cancelling a transaction as opposed to seeking retribution. It seems that seeking retribution became the number one choice somewhere along the line.

This way of dealing with buyers actually hurts me more as a seller than dealing with potential nervous buyers.

 

[Dr. Balls]

The PL is a good thing, and it can be a bad thing - just like anything else in life. I don't think there's going to be a be-all-end-all 100% iron-clad way of ensuring that only the evildoers make the PL.

 

Like our justice system, occasionally it's going to chew up the hapless Boardie who meant no harm - but with thousands of members on this site, it's expected. There's just too many types of people here to adapt a system to each kind of temperament - so we have to have one that – percentage-wise – does more good than bad to our community.

[skypinkblu]

Well it's about time you showed up. I was wondering if your radar was on he fritz.

 

I may be incorrect about the percentage of times sellers are not impacted. Surely though not every costs the seller a sale. And just to clarify because although the message is similar I see them as quite different. I don't think the buyer has a right to back out. My message is to sellers that you do have the option of cancelling a transaction as opposed to seeking retribution. It seems that seeking retribution became the number one choice somewhere along the line.

This way of dealing with buyers actually hurts me more as a seller than dealing with potential nervous buyers.

 

What often happens is someone wants to grab a bargain, and they GRAB that "bargain" without thinking, taking time to shop around, investigating, because...they want "a bargain" ...after they think about it, or a friend tells them they are crazy, there are cheaper books elsewhere, or they see another "bargain" they change their minds. Other times, they see a "better" bargain and want that instead.

 

I'm not saying that happens all the time, but it does. Once someone backs out, it's often very difficult for the seller to sell the book again, their thread may be over, the book may no longer be hot...OR...other people are turned off because if someone else doesn't want the book...well, they don't either.

 

I've had very few problems with buyers, I'm lenient with terms...I rarely "need" the funds immediately, so I rarely out people who are late...but I have had to on a few occasions, and both times I outed people, they had fans who thought the offender was right, or I should let it go, etc...so they got off the original probation list and then they screwed up again...that's when they wound up in the hall of shame.

 

There is a reason for this list. People should think before flying that take it flag...and if they don't, they should PAY for the book. I know I've made a few mistakes grabbing a book before reading the fine print myself, but I just paid for them. That's what adults do.

 

The probation list also protects those of us who grab bargains, grails, or just any old thing ...and don't get what we pay for (I mean physically, don't receive a book). It's been helpful MANY times...and I for one, support it.

[silverweb]

+1

Well said!

[Aces]

Wow. I'm starting to wonder the point of the list.

 

When we started worrying about how ups could get off the list before they were even added i started wondering the same thing.

 

Reality is, the probation list is no longer the warning it once was. Its just a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction. It could serve both purposes, but i guess we as a community have groomed it to operate this way.

 

Your description of the PL as "a strongarm tactic to force someone into completing a transaction" is a good one, and to me that's the virtue of the PL, its supposed to facilitate solutions to problems. Once a solution has been found there is no sense or purpose to it being a warning about anything. If the problems don't get solved a name or names remain on the PL and that stands as a warning to other members.

 

Indeed its a warning in two senses, as its also a deterrent.

 

Well said!

 

Just because it can be used does not mean it always should be used. The knee jerk reaction of someone posted and didn't pay therefore onto the probation list to me is an easy way out for sellers.

 

I offer returns. If a buyer has an issue I would like to know before I spend money to ship the comic. I also do not understand the mentality of now you have to give me your money. In the vast majority of cases the seller appears unharmed. So being on the PL is warning me of what exactly?

 

Seller is not unharmed.

Somebody else might have been interested but saw the and closed the thread maybe to never come back and notice it was available again.

 

Worse case is when a buyer likes to bundle a couple of books to combine shipping but notices one of the books they want was already so they decide not to buy anything. But the was a false alarm...

[Cascaders27]

I know I've made a few mistakes grabbing a book before reading the fine print myself, but I just paid for them. That's what adults do.

 

Your entire post was very well written Sky but I felt this part in particular was important to focus on. I've mentioned it before and I'll say it again that on multiple occasions in an attempt to be sure I get even one copy of a book; I've ended up with multiples. I never once thought about telling Seller B that I no longer wanted the book(s) from them and I've simply completed the transaction as agreed upon. I imagine I could have tried to return it after getting them but then both the seller and myself are out the costs of shipping and going back to your post - adults do what they say they will do. This goes beyond completing transactions on an online comic enthusiast forum.

[N/A]

Adults also communicate and as a seller I would prefer that you told me you did not need them. I would prefer not to send you something you no longer want as opposed to wasting the time and money because it is the adult thing to do. I am surprised there are not more sellers as lenient.

 

 

For the lawyers in the room (yes you ) when did the law change regarding this? My legal knowledge is limited and old. Back before there was only one way to file for divorce. There was a time when each party was made whole. The idea on a deal gone south was to try and make each party as if the deal never happened. The idea of no harm, no foul existed at some point.

[N/A]

To quote my grade 11 law book "a verbal contract is legally binding if and only if one of the parties has incurred an expense "

[Awax]

No dog in this fight...

 

Just a question

 

Isn't within a post from you actually a digital signature?

[seanfingh]

To quote my grade 11 law book "a verbal contract is legally binding if and only if one of the parties has incurred an expense "

 

Canadian law is one step up from feudalism.

[Cascaders27]

Adults also communicate and as a seller I would prefer that you told me you did not need them. I would prefer not to send you something you no longer want as opposed to wasting the time and money because it is the adult thing to do. I am surprised there are not more sellers as lenient.

 

 

For the lawyers in the room (yes you ) when did the law change regarding this? My legal knowledge is limited and old. Back before there was only one way to file for divorce. There was a time when each party was made whole. The idea on a deal gone south was to try and make each party as if the deal never happened. The idea of no harm, no foul existed at some point.

 

I can appreciate the point you're making and certainly understand it. I don't see a whole lot of people being that accommodating so I've always just completed my deals. I don't know anything about the law side of things but I could see there being something about lost or delayed revenue factoring in as expense?

[comix4fun]

To quote my grade 11 law book "a verbal contract is legally binding if and only if one of the parties has incurred an expense "

 

 

A sales thread with an in it isn't verbal.

[comix4fun]

 

For the lawyers in the room (yes you ) when did the law change regarding this? My legal knowledge is limited and old. Back before there was only one way to file for divorce. There was a time when each party was made whole. The idea on a deal gone south was to try and make each party as if the deal never happened. The idea of no harm, no foul existed at some point.

 

 

The law never changed. I just think you are reading "being made whole" as before the deal was struck, but it was really to put the parties into a place before the breach of the deal occurred. That means, the seller has sold his book, the buyer has bought his book, and the transaction is complete. It removes the breach from the deal, not the deal from reality.

 

If a seller has to take time, effort, and resources to attempt to resell the item to someone else, perhaps at a lesser price, but certainly at a later date and with more effort and less certainty then putting the seller at a point where the deal never happened is decidedly NOT making him/her whole.

 

 

[N/A]

To quote my grade 11 law book "a verbal contract is legally binding if and only if one of the parties has incurred an expense "

 

 

A sales thread with an in it isn't verbal.

 

You don't say.

I was just dating my legal philosophy.

[N/A]

To quote my grade 11 law book "a verbal contract is legally binding if and only if one of the parties has incurred an expense "

 

Canadian law is one step up from feudalism.

 

Males are legally allowed to marry at 12 and females at 14. (thumbs u