PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Balham's Finest]

Selling raw books is a risk. If one is unwilling to take responsibility for one's wares then perhaps one should not be selling online. Frankly, I'm surprised there are people willing to argue the other side of this point. I myself circumvent these scenarios by trying to only buy and sell slabbed books. You are not a restoration expert. Neither am I. But that's not really a good reason for sticking an unsuspecting buyer with a restored book.

 

They wouldn't be unsuspecting in my scenario though, would they? I specifically told them I couldn't guarantee no resto. As it happens, this was just a discussion and not a sale.

 

Well then this whole back and forth seems simple enough. Some sellers are willing to accept accountability for the items they sell and some aren't. I suppose there's not much to do here regarding the PL but I am suprised that there are people willing to tell buyers to fugg off after an unfortunate deal.

 

The discussion got a bit sidetracked from my initial question, which was about the basis for you putting someone on the PL if you buy a raw book from them, without a guarantee, and it turned out to be restored (and assuming of course that they were unwilling to refund). Personally, I don't think that would be fair - or allowed under the rules for that matter, since whether you imply one or not, there is no official board policy that books are unrestored unless declared otherwise.

 

FAOD, if I did accidentally sell a restored book and the buyer was unhappy, then yes of course I would work something out rather than saying "tough" because it would be the right thing to do,

[Ryan.]

The discussion got a bit sidetracked from my initial question, which was about the basis for you putting someone on the PL if you buy a raw book from them, without a guarantee, and it turned out to be restored (and assuming of course that they were unwilling to refund). Personally, I don't think that would be fair - or allowed under the rules for that matter, since whether you imply one or not, there is no official board policy that books are unrestored unless declared otherwise.

 

That's fine. I have no problem with this. Just spitballing ideas here.

 

FAOD

 

Fatty Acid Oxidation Disorder?

[cloudofwit]

The discussion got a bit sidetracked from my initial question, which was about the basis for you putting someone on the PL if you buy a raw book from them, without a guarantee, and it turned out to be restored (and assuming of course that they were unwilling to refund). Personally, I don't think that would be fair - or allowed under the rules for that matter, since whether you imply one or not, there is no official board policy that books are unrestored unless declared otherwise.

 

That's fine. I have no problem with this. Just spitballing ideas here.

 

FAOD

 

Fatty Acid Oxidation Disorder?

 

Fudging acronyms overkill die!

[Dr. Balls]

Spaceman love.

[N/A]

 

I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy.

 

Simply because if "I'm" the one selling it, no matter who owned it before, its my responsibility to back up what "I" sell... ultimately being "my" fault for undetected restoration.

 

Any seller that does not agree with this should not be selling.

 

And Rupp just got himself a potential new customer.

[revat]

 

I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy.

 

Simply because if "I'm" the one selling it, no matter who owned it before, its my responsibility to back up what "I" sell... ultimately being "my" fault for undetected restoration.

 

Any seller that does not agree with this should not be selling.

 

And Rupp just got himself a potential new customer.

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

ONLY the Sith deal in absolutes.

BUT I think that if the seller makes his/her terms clear up front, AND the buyer does some nominal research on who they're buying from, a lot of hassle on both ends can be avoided.

[Ryan.]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

[revat]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

In the preceding posts, it was stated:

 

"I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy."

 

Related to restoration, I agree with this statement, but 'ANY purchase for 100% return?', less so

 

maybe I took it out of context, maybe not.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Revat

[seanfingh]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Nothing, but it has something to do with a 100% return guarantee. And the idea that is potentially absolute, meaning that the person could return it because of drop in value, or other things that have nothing to do with the Seller.

[Ryan.]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Nothing. Read the whole post before responding next time.

[seanfingh]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Nothing. Read the whole post before responding next time.

 

How were those pissy cornflakes this morning?

[Ryan.]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Nothing. Read the whole post before responding next time.

 

How were those pissy cornflakes this morning?

 

Vinegary.

[mschmidt]

 

I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy.

 

Simply because if "I'm" the one selling it, no matter who owned it before, its my responsibility to back up what "I" sell... ultimately being "my" fault for undetected restoration.

 

Any seller that does not agree with this should not be selling.

 

And Rupp just got himself a potential new customer.

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

Of course, they should - within a reasonable time frame.

 

And the seller would then be well within his rights to create a thread in CG making sure everyone knew what to expect if they dealt with that particular person_who_is_obnoxiously_self-impressed buyer :thumbsup:

 

It is absolutely mind-boggling how many people on this board try to skirt their responsibilities as a seller:

 

"The book got damaged during shipping? Too bad - you should have bought insurance."

"The book came back from CGC restored? Not my problem - I didn't do the restoration."

"The NM book I sold you is actually F/VF? You must have switched the book."

 

[Jeffro.]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Nothing, but it has something to do with a 100% return guarantee. And the idea that is potentially absolute, meaning that the person could return it because of drop in value, or other things that have nothing to do with the Seller.

 

I can think of a bunch of ways that buyers could mess with such an unconditional return policy. Why should this be a 100% ironclad absolute is beyond me.

[Ryan.]

You could always just write "No returns" in your sales thread.

[Jimmy Linguini]

I would understand no returns for graded book.

 

But I couldn't see no returns for raw books.

[MrBedrock]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

In the preceding posts, it was stated:

 

"I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy."

 

Related to restoration, I agree with this statement, but 'ANY purchase for 100% return?', less so

 

maybe I took it out of context, maybe not.

I actually would take a return on a book in a scenario like this.

That's what "for any reason" means.

A happy customer is way more important than any one sale of a slabbed Sixth Gun.

[mschmidt]

 

IF someone sold someone a perfectly good slab at an agreed upon price, should they accept returns after arrival? What if it was a Sixth Gun and the price dropped overnight?

 

What does that have to do with restoration?

 

Absolutely nothing.

 

In the preceding posts, it was stated:

 

"I would like to think that ANY purchase that one makes here on the boards would be be backed with a 100% return policy."

 

Related to restoration, I agree with this statement, but 'ANY purchase for 100% return?', less so

 

maybe I took it out of context, maybe not.

I actually would take a return on a book in a scenario like this.

That's what "for any reason" means.

A happy customer is way more important than any one sale of a slabbed Sixth Gun.

 

:winnah:

[Aces]

You may say that I took the risk when I bought a non non-CGC comic, so I should "man up" ... but is that not equally true of the person who bought it from me?

 

Yes. Again, buying and selling raw books online is a risk. At some point, people are going to get fugged by a restored book. I know I have. At that point it is not unreasonable to begin a conversation between seller and buyer to discuss equitable terms. Throwing your hands up and saying, "This isn't my fault!" doesn't really solve the problem. When Best Buy sells a defective laptop, the store isn't the one that inspects the device for quality but it will be the one that must issue the refund to the disappointed buyer.

 

This is why raw books often sell for 25%-50% below GPA.

The buyer is taking the risk of it being overgraded or restored.

However if a large amount of money was involved and a lot of the books were restored the seller should make some level of compensation.

 

Example 1:

Seller sells 20 SA ASMs all decently graded at F to VF to a buyer for $1000, 2/3s of GPA ($1500). It turns out one book had a tiny drop of pro color touch which was almost impossible to see.

I think the buyer got a deal and shouldn't make a fuss about it.

 

Example2:

Seller sells a pair of SA semi keys from a collection combined for $2500 (gpa is $3000).

It turns out both are restored and together are worth $1500.

Seller should offer a full refund for the books, or pay a partial refund to the buyer.

If not they a crook.

 

"When Best Buy sells a defective laptop, the store isn't the one that inspects the device for quality but it will be the one that must issue the refund to the disappointed buyer. "

 

In Best Buy I've seen open box TVs, phones, even refrigerators offered at 30%-50% off but no returns. I've asked about these and they said if it's faulty call the manufacturer for a replacement (1 year manufacturers' warranty) . Unless you buy one of their extended warranties...

[seanfingh]

You could always just write "No returns" in your sales thread.

 

But there is a huge difference between "No returns" and "All returns, including buyer's remorse and precipitous drops in value."

 

I have always gone with a "Satisfaction guarantee," meaning that if I did anything - poor packing, missed something grading, missed a crack in the slab - that I would make it right. That could be return and refund or partial comp for the screw up. I am down with any and all of that. I don't know how I would feel about "Hey, I bought this 10 days ago, now there is one on Ebay for $50 less, I want to return it."