PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[MR SigS]

I now want a donkey. I'd name him Don Key.

 

 

 

 

-slym

 

I work with a guy named Don Kay.

Poor guy. What the hell were his parents thinking?

[Sqeggs]

I need to nominate Ajaxfarrell for the Probation List.

 

On April 2, 2012 I made an offer on a book and he accepted. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5570768#Post5570768

Payment (Paypal) was sent within 5 minutes.

After a brief delay I received the book and found it substantially overgraded.

On 4/18 Ajaxfarrell agreed to a $130 refund to paid out in installments over 4 weeks.

On 5/8 I had not received any payment but a handful of excuses. I told him that payment by the end of May would be fine.

6/3... no money, more excuses

8/10... after more excuses I received $65 with a promise to pay off the remaining $65 by the end of the week.

8/18... more excuses

9/4... more promises

10/12... more excuses

Today (8 months since last contact) I sent a ... waiting on a reply

 

In the past 8 months Ajaxfarrell has run several sales and sold several items. I know he has not been on the boards much in the past couple of month but, then again, neither have I.

 

What say ye... Probation List or not?

 

Here is the PM chain for those who are interested:

http://www.boxofcomics.com/Ajaxfarrell_p1.jpg

http://www.boxofcomics.com/Ajaxfarrell_p2.jpg

 

UPDATE

After 466 days this has finally been resolved. Jim sent the final payment on 8/21. After bringing it to this forum Jim promised to settle up by 7/4 (10 days)... 7 weeks later we're done.

 

Feel free to remove him for the Probation List if it is appropriate.

I will proceed with caution when dealing with Ajaxfarrell in the future.

 

I'm glad the guy made good, but the time frame is ridiculous. Things like this are what leave me having doubts about the PL.

 

Yeah, if AF hadn't wanted to run a sales thread, SG might never have gotten the rest of his money.

 

The alternative to the PL as it is now is to start a feedback thread. But there doesn't seem to be much support for approaching the mods about allowing that.

[comicdonna]

I love these boards! It takes people of "almost" all kinds to make it this special.

 

via Imgflip Meme Maker

See what I mean?

[manicnerd]

I'd like to remove my suggestion for BathedinFlames for the probation list. This whole thing isn't worth the headache.

[Beige]

No stick to your guns mate - some of the old timers get worried about anything new.

Seriously, you are trying to stop someone being burned.

 

[comicdonna]

I'd like to remove my suggestion for BathedinFlames for the probation list. This whole thing isn't worth the headache.

I haven't had the time to follow how you were wronged but, if you were, it's worth the headache. You could save others from being wronged. (thumbs u

[mikenyc]

I'd like to remove my suggestion for BathedinFlames for the probation list. This whole thing isn't worth the headache.

I haven't had the time to follow how you were wronged but, if you were, it's worth the headache. You could save others from being wronged. (thumbs u

 

This is what my dog thin..........oh wait, I completely agree with you. Sorry, force of habit.

 

 

[jaybuck43]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

[Beastfeast]

Nominating Chi Bamm for the PL.

 

I invoiced him on 6/6/13. We exchanged some messages about shipping costs and I quoted him a final amount.

 

On 6/25/13, I messaged him about payment. Then again on 7/1, 7/16 and 8/4. All are unread.

 

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

 

You were not around in 2011 when we spent weeks working out the PL/HOS list. Weeks. Not just a poll and suddenly that is law. It don't work that way.

 

As I suggested to Beige in a PM and in General Discussion (or to anyone else that wants to spearhead PIF type probation list), work it out amoung the interested members. Go into the current PIF rules, solicit suggestions, look for loopholes and expansion/clarification where needed. After working everything though, have votes on member approval. We had a few rounds of posting the PL/HOS rule set and each round brought up new things to consider.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, this may be a good time to incorporate other contribution based events like Secret Santa into the mix as, with the PIF, they are not sales

 

Then go through the mods and ask if they can create an area for this the way we did for the forum sales.

[Aces]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

 

You were not around in 2011 when we spent weeks working out the PL/HOS list. Weeks. Not just a poll and suddenly that is law. It don't work that way.

 

As I suggested to Beige in a PM and in General Discussion (or to anyone else that wants to spearhead PIF type probation list), work it out amoung the interested members. Go into the current PIF rules, solicit suggestions, look for loopholes and expansion/clarification where needed. After working everything though, have votes on member approval. We had a few rounds of posting the PL/HOS rule set and each round brought up new things to consider.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, this may be a good time to incorporate other contribution based events like Secret Santa into the mix as, with the PIF, they are not sales

 

Then go through the mods and ask if they can create an area for this the way we did for the forum sales.

+1

 

I remember when David created the first probation list post. We had about ten people on it. Funny, we had a bad month were we went from like five trouble makers to ten and we decided we needed a list to keep track of them. It was a long haul to get those rules in place. When it first started out I was actually opposed to it since the rules for getting off the list didn't even exist.

 

It should take some super majority type consensus to amend the rules and procedures.

 

I still don't like the idea of people getting on the list for off-board stuff unless it was really bad, like out right theft or other criminal behavior.

[Sqeggs]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

 

39% of 66 votes or 39 of 66 votes -- 39/66 = 59%.

[joecgcmaniac]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

 

39% of 66 votes or 39 of 66 votes -- 39/66 = 59%.

 

Math iz compicaded.

[Mr Wiggles]

You were not around in 2011 when we spent weeks working out the PL/HOS list. Weeks. Not just a poll and suddenly that is law. It don't work that way.

 

As I suggested to Beige in a PM and in General Discussion (or to anyone else that wants to spearhead PIF type probation list), work it out amoung the interested members. Go into the current PIF rules, solicit suggestions, look for loopholes and expansion/clarification where needed. After working everything though, have votes on member approval. We had a few rounds of posting the PL/HOS rule set and each round brought up new things to consider.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, this may be a good time to incorporate other contribution based events like Secret Santa into the mix as, with the PIF, they are not sales

 

Then go through the mods and ask if they can create an area for this the way we did for the forum sales.

 

So the argument for not adding PIF baddies to the PL list is that you had to go through hoops to create something new so PIF should do the same?

 

Why dilute the good information the PL list provides by spreading the baddies across multiple threads?

 

Why not have the hard work you, and others, put in expand to help protect even more?

 

I don't understand this territorial mindset of not allowing all those who pose a potential risk to boardies, based on previous behavior, be easily found in a central location (the PL list). If the idea is to protect boardies, this is how you protect them in a greater capacity than to dilute the information across multiple threads.

 

Both polls indicate this is what the boardies want to see (75% yes on skypinkblu's poll). A central location for those who pose a potential risk.

[Comicopolis]

Well even though my poll was mess, the voters have spoken and 39% of 66 votes have said that yes PIF transgressions should be eligible to be included on PL. So the voters have spoken, lets end this debate and PIF transgressions are eligible for PL.

 

39% of 66 votes or 39 of 66 votes -- 39/66 = 59%.

 

The majority win.

 

Or not.

[PovertyRow]

You were not around in 2011 when we spent weeks working out the PL/HOS list. Weeks. Not just a poll and suddenly that is law. It don't work that way.

 

As I suggested to Beige in a PM and in General Discussion (or to anyone else that wants to spearhead PIF type probation list), work it out amoung the interested members. Go into the current PIF rules, solicit suggestions, look for loopholes and expansion/clarification where needed. After working everything though, have votes on member approval. We had a few rounds of posting the PL/HOS rule set and each round brought up new things to consider.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, this may be a good time to incorporate other contribution based events like Secret Santa into the mix as, with the PIF, they are not sales

 

Then go through the mods and ask if they can create an area for this the way we did for the forum sales.

 

So the argument for not adding PIF baddies to the PL list is that you had to go through hoops to create something new so PIF should do the same?

 

Why dilute the good information the PL list provides by spreading the baddies across multiple threads?

 

Why not have the hard work you, and others, put in expand to help protect even more?

 

I don't understand this territorial mindset of not allowing all those who pose a potential risk to boardies, based on previous behavior, be easily found in a central location (the PL list). If the idea is to protect boardies, this is how you protect them in a greater capacity than to dilute the information across multiple threads.

 

Both polls indicate this is what the boardies want to see (75% yes on skypinkblu's poll). A central location for those who pose a potential risk.

 

Well the arguments is not that we had to go through hoops so they should. The argument is that the hoops that we went through were necessary to come up with a valid sales forum rule set. The venue is not the same as PIF.

 

As far as polls go, what is it with the 48 hour polls? Where did the idea a poll like this should be 48 hours?

 

Again, I don't mind seeing a new sub-section in the HOS/PL list. But I feel that not only PIF but any contribution type venue like Secret Santa should be part of it. I'm the only person to actually suggest that and push for it. But it makes perfect sense, as the PIF is simply a version of the Secret Santa.

 

It would be great to see a new sub-section in Forum Sales called something like CONTRIBUTIONS and CONTESTS where all these types of events can be rolled into one umbrella. Guidelines can be really formalized and discussions on violators can be made there. Otherwise there is going to be an ongoing "But the Forum Sales Guidelines" say this or "the HOS/PL rules say that". Which is exactly what happened with Secret Santa.

 

There is more to this than just sticking someone on the PL/HOS list.

 

Shoot - almost identical iterations of this discussion are going on at the same time in both General Discussion and Probation Discussion. That in itself is a small indicator of what this place will look like if Contributions/Contests are not really formalized.

[Mr Wiggles]

Well the arguments is not that we had to go through hoops so they should. The argument is that the hoops that we went through were necessary to come up with a valid sales forum rule set. The venue is not the same as PIF.

 

I would argue the act of conducting a transaction online is would constitute the same venue. Money exchanging hands makes a transaction differ but it doesn't remove the venue.

 

As far as polls go, what is it with the 48 hour polls? Where did the idea a poll like this should be 48 hours?

 

This doesn't change that both polls show support for PIF baddies on the PL list.

 

Again, I don't mind seeing a new sub-section in the HOS/PL list. But I feel that not only PIF but any contribution type venue like Secret Santa should be part of it. I'm the only person to actually suggest that and push for it. But it makes perfect sense, as the PIF is simply a version of the Secret Santa.

 

Why change what is already working? I don't think boardies are looking for a re-organization of the threads that are already working, whether they partake in them or not. Just that all baddies are listed in a central location.

 

It would be great to see a new sub-section in Forum Sales called something like CONTRIBUTIONS and CONTESTS where all these types of events can be rolled into one umbrella. Guidelines can be really formalized and discussions on violators can be made there. Otherwise there is going to be an ongoing "But the Forum Sales Guidelines" say this or "the HOS/PL rules say that". Which is exactly what happened with Secret Santa.

 

If you'd like users to refer to threads for their individual rules, or make a distinction that someone on the PL violated PIF/SS rules rather than sale forums rules, a simple distinction provides that. This retains a central location for all forum baddies but provides the distinction that you want to see made.

 

There is more to this than just sticking someone on the PL/HOS list.

 

Only if you choose to make it more. The bare bones are still the same. Anyone nominated to the PL list violated agreed upon terms to conduct a transaction. I'm leaving out terms like "on the boards" and "online" as the PL already provides for distinction outside of the forums (eBay and in person).

 

Distinctions are already made. The PL, I'm assuming, was created to protect boardies from potential grief in dealing with someone who doesn't hold up their end of the agreement. Expanding to allow PIF goes hand in hand with that desire to protect.

Shoot - almost identical iterations of this discussion are going on at the same time in both General Discussion and Probation Discussion. That in itself is a small indicator of what this place will look like if Contributions/Contests are not really formalized.

 

A great reason to have a centralized PL.

 

 

[PovertyRow]

"Bare bones" doesn't cut it. It should be as targeted as specifically to contributions/contests etc. as the PL/HOS is targeted to Sales and Trades . Yes, trades are included not only in the Forum Selling area but also in the Sales Guidelines created by Arch and the Gang.

 

And I AM actually talking about combining and CENTRALIZING the PIF, Secret Santa, Grading Contests that have prizes, etc. into a centralized area under its own thread (something like PIF, CONTRIBUTIONS AND CONTESTS). What is the problem with that? You say you want centralization and this would be real centralization. And we would not have to revisit it when a new infraction comes up in other venues besides PIF.

 

The more I thin k about it the more I like the idea of including those PIF, CONTESTS AND CONTRIBUTIONS type infractions in a separate subset of the existing HOS/PL list.

 

48 hour polls - why? Why not a week like we did with the PL/HOS list polls when establishing THOSE rules?

 

All of this is coming out of, from what I gather, a single infraction of PIF. Rush to justice if you want but taking a more orderly approach is going to benefit greatly in the long run.

 

 

 

 

[Mr Wiggles]

And I AM actually talking about combining and CENTRALIZING the PIF, Secret Santa, Grading Contests that have prizes, etc. into a centralized area under its own thread (something like PIF, CONTRIBUTIONS AND CONTESTS). What is the problem with that? You say you want centralization and this would be real centralization. And we would not have to revisit it when a new infraction comes up in other venues besides PIF.

 

Let's not misappropriate my use of the word "centralize". I said I wanted centralization of the baddies in a uniform PL. You are still advocating against that.

 

I'm also not looking to reorganize the forums, as you are with the idea of grouping contests, PIF, and SS together in their own section.

 

I'm not interested in a debate about poll length or reorganization of the forums. The discussion at hand is the addition of PIF baddies to the PL. A simple addition to the PL of a board member who has failed to carry out their end of a transaction conducted on the boards. This is not a "rush to justice" but the exact same approach that is used in any other PL nominee.

 

I don't know how much more "orderly" I can be presenting the discussion as it is.

[universal soldier]

I'm leaning towards the inclusion but in separate section of the PL that is inclusive of all non-sales type of transactions. It does need to be fleshed out as to what is included and what constitutes an infraction.

 

 

It would also be nice to keep the polls in separate thread in this section. Not all of us frequent the boards hourly so I have no idea where this "poll" is located.

 

Feel free to resume