PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Dr. Balls]

And:

 

NO AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEMES

[seanfingh]

We should have a real poll - Regular PL list, Regular PL list with a notation that it was PIF, and PIF having its own bad agent list.

 

We should have a poll about the poll options. That is certainly relevant.

 

What other options are there?

 

The argument seems to be yes or no. Why muddle it with more nonsense? I'm still not certain why this is an argument to begin with if every PL addition isn't debated on whether their exchange involved "junk" or not.

 

Value judgments are a bad path to go down when it involves trying to protect board members from potential, future deals gone bad.

 

It's not about the junk. It's about whether there is a transaction that occurred. Very very murky.

 

Also, here is my response to the TROLL QUEEN meme, which was pretty sweet:

 

 

This is hilarious. Just because I am not a mewling bootlicker, worried about what all the other drones think, I am the troll queen? Good for me, I guess.

 

So far here are my takes:

 

(1) I think the PIF is dumb - and have mocked it, pretty much constantly.

(2) I have serious reservations as to whether there is an actual transaction involved.

(3) Clearly you have been wronged, under the terms of the PIF thread.

(4) I suggested that, because of the murky nature of the "transaction" PIF handle its own bad agents

(5) I also called you "the complainer" which apparently hurt your butt, despite my intention that it mean "the aggrieved party."

 

The consensus seems to be approaching the concept that PIF infractions will go on the regular PL list with a notation. Which is exactly what good discourse is supposed to achieve. I think I am going to lose, and I am satisfied, because I got to say my piece and others presented their ideas.

 

YAY! Freedom of Expression!!

[DiceX]

And:

 

NO AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEMES

 

 

 

[Ryan.]

What is the demarkation point between 'Took Forever to Ship' and 'Item Never Sent'? 30 days? How is it known that the offending boardie brought up here isn't just dragging his to ship the PiF item?

[skypinkblu]

And:

 

NO AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEMES

 

Seriously, I find the African American MEMES pretty pathetic. None of the people I know dress like Aunt Jemima, nor do they talk that way.

 

Can't we have just regular MEMEs?

'

[techvoodoo]

What is the demarkation point between 'Took Forever to Ship' and 'Item Never Sent'? 30 days? How is it known that the offending boardie brought up here isn't just dragging his to ship the PiF item?

 

Rules of the thread state you should ship within 2 weeks, so if someone doesn't receive their "junk" in what, 3 to 3.5 weeks it might be time to bring it up?

[Sqeggs]

What is the demarkation point between 'Took Forever to Ship' and 'Item Never Sent'? 30 days? How is it known that the offending boardie brought up here isn't just dragging his to ship the PiF item?

 

Rules of the thread state you should ship within 2 weeks, so if someone doesn't receive their "junk" in what, 3 to 3.5 weeks it might be time to bring it up?

 

If they are going on the regular PL, I think we should stick with the regular 30 days. This one is beyond 30 days, anyway.

[Sqeggs]

Attorneys

 

They make the boards worth reading!

 

[Mr Wiggles]

It's not about the junk. It's about whether there is a transaction that occurred. Very very murky.

 

So if someone was previously added under with a failure to send via the Secret Santa thread does that qualify PIF to now be a transaction? They both follow the same formula of sending goods to someone who isn't sending back to you.

 

Doesn't seem murky at all.

[seanfingh]

It's not about the junk. It's about whether there is a transaction that occurred. Very very murky.

 

So if someone was previously added under with a failure to send via the Secret Santa thread does that qualify PIF to now be a transaction? They both follow the same formula of sending goods to someone who isn't sending back to you.

 

Doesn't seem murky at all.

 

Well, you appear to be trying to make a point with a hypothetical that has no basis in fact. That never happened, so I am not sure what it proves. I never had sex with Raquel Welch, so does that make me a Belgian?

 

As I have said, many times, these types of "transactions" do not have a real analogue in any recognized legal situation. If they do, I would love to hear about it. Manicnerd got screwed. No doubt about it. I question whether it is a legally cognizable event.

 

It appears that the consensus is gathering to make the PIF transactions part of the regular PL. You guys are winning. I am losing. I guess it's best to tilt at the Troll Queen. So, bring it on, .

[MR SigS]

I honestly had no idea there was such a HUGE discussion over this.

 

I'm all for a PIF MOD team.

 

I'm indifferent to where a PIF PL is, but strongly agree that one is needed.

[Mr Wiggles]

Well, you appear to be trying to make a point with a hypothetical that has no basis in fact. That never happened, so I am not sure what it proves.

 

I've seen posts alluding to the Secret Santa addition and yours claiming it didn't happen. If not I'll gladly debate the extent the term "transaction" defines.

 

Or we can just let the poll go, which seems to be where you're heading and I'm also fine with.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Mr Wiggles

[crassus]

It's not about the junk. It's about whether there is a transaction that occurred. Very very murky.

 

So if someone was previously added under with a failure to send via the Secret Santa thread does that qualify PIF to now be a transaction? They both follow the same formula of sending goods to someone who isn't sending back to you.

 

Doesn't seem murky at all.

 

Well, you appear to be trying to make a point with a hypothetical that has no basis in fact. That never happened, so I am not sure what it proves. I never had sex with Raquel Welch, so does that make me a Belgian?

 

As I have said, many times, these types of "transactions" do not have a real analogue in any recognized legal situation. If they do, I would love to hear about it. Manicnerd got screwed. No doubt about it. I question whether it is a legally cognizable event.

 

I have my doubts also, but let me ask you: did he not accept an obligation within a predefined set of rules, and others, upon the same basis, expect him to fulfill that obligation? A transaction in the end assumes reciprocity, it may be an exchange of cash or goods, or it may also be an exchange of obligations and responsibilities.

 

If he had pulled the same stunt in a charity thread, where the context was people in genuine need, wouldn't you feel he would have deserved at the very least the PL?

 

 

[Aces]

How has the complainer been damaged? They can skip the "offender" and go right to the next selection.

Good point...although, based on the thread, looks like manicnerd paid for shipping. Seems like it's more about the point of the matter...there's a board member who didn't hold up his end of a deal, so wouldn't we want that person officially on the list - that would be in all of our interests, right?

 

PIF has been a trainwreck on several occasions. All I am suggesting is that they handle their own business there, and not gum up the real PL.

It's probably a good idea for PIF to have it's own internal blacklist.

If somebody claims something in there and never does their end they should be banned from ever again using PIF until they square up.

 

Imagine how big the PL would become if every PIF sender that shipped late or the item was damaged in shipping had to be put on PL.

How would they refund a freebie to get off PL?

 

 

I haven't seen anyone suggest putting people on the PL for bad shipping or shipping late, or for any other reason other than someone never shipped out what they said they would send.

 

Why do people keep going back to that? No one has even suggested it that I've seen. What we are suggesting is explicitly, if you don't deliver the item you said you would ship you are to be added to the PL. Nothing more.

 

I've read through a lot since that post.

 

Would the 30 day rule apply?

If so then late shipping (time) would be a factor

 

Also I read now that the victim sent $15 (or was it $16) to cover shipping for this "freebie".

That's a whole other ball of wax.

It's not a freebie anymore.

 

 

 

[143ksk]

Ok. Here's a question that might clarify this (or just make it muddier). What is the current rule if someone stiffs someone in the Secret Santa threads? How about on a prize thread for a contest? My guess is this should be treated the same way. Or has that never happened?

 

I'm still waiting for my prize from Lighthouse's contest from 2004

[ajaxfarrell]

For the record:

I really did drop the ball on handling this refund. It came during a very trying time for my family and myself. I've been cash strapped for (like forever)...but no excuse.

I'd like to say that Jeff (Stronguy) has been very patient and I have been very disorganized and mixed up with my priorities.

So, for the record, I'll have the balance taken care of Wed. or Thursday.

Sincerely,

Jim VK.

p.s. BTW, It came as some surprise to me, after a bit of a hiatus from the boards, to realize that there was still a balance owed to Jeff. I thought it was taken care of, but of course, that oversight is my fault for not keeping better records during that time period.

 

 

I need to nominate Ajaxfarrell for the Probation List.

 

On April 2, 2012 I made an offer on a book and he accepted. http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5570768#Post5570768

Payment (Paypal) was sent within 5 minutes.

After a brief delay I received the book and found it substantially overgraded.

On 4/18 Ajaxfarrell agreed to a $130 refund to paid out in installments over 4 weeks.

On 5/8 I had not received any payment but a handful of excuses. I told him that payment by the end of May would be fine.

6/3... no money, more excuses

8/10... after more excuses I received $65 with a promise to pay off the remaining $65 by the end of the week.

8/18... more excuses

9/4... more promises

10/12... more excuses

Today (8 months since last contact) I sent a ... waiting on a reply

 

In the past 8 months Ajaxfarrell has run several sales and sold several items. I know he has not been on the boards much in the past couple of month but, then again, neither have I.

 

What say ye... Probation List or not?

 

Here is the PM chain for those who are interested:

http://www.boxofcomics.com/Ajaxfarrell_p1.jpg

http://www.boxofcomics.com/Ajaxfarrell_p2.jpg

Edited August 19, 2013 by ajaxfarrell

[143ksk]

I never had sex with Raquel Welch, so does that make me a Belgian?

 

 

 

[EC ed]

Also I read now that the victim sent $15 (or was it $16) to cover shipping for this "freebie".

That's a whole other ball of wax.

It's not a freebie anymore.

Although the PIF thread exchange made it sound like the sender was charging shipping, manicnerd confirmed that he did NOT pay any shipping $ to the sender.

[VintageComics]

That thread seems popular, and I am sure there is more junk to be swapped.

 

This word makes me laugh every time you write it.

[Aces]

That thread seems popular, and I am sure there is more junk to be swapped.

 

This word makes me laugh every time you write it.

 

Just be glad he's writing it and not swinging it.