Sale of the Year - New Mutants #98 CGC 9.9 for $12,250 5 5

[Flaming_Telepath]

I remember talking to a collector in 1996, he paid $1,000 for a NM Fantastic Four #1, and $800.00 for a NM Green Lantern #1 out of the comic buyers guide in around 1982-1984 or so if I can remember. They were from a high grade collection that surfaced. He was practically laughed into the nut hut by his family and friends. Who would pay 1 grand for a dumb comic book. Assuming the grades remotely held up, that would of been a very, very good investment.

 

It is beyond ridiculous to compare FF #1 to New Mutants #98.

 

NOBODY bought 15 copies of FF #1 the week it was brand new, immediately bagged and boarded them, and then stuck them in a long box for 40+ years.

 

More than one person did just that with New Mutants #98.

 

Perspective, people. The two aren't remotely comparable.

maybe not FF #1 but I can see comparing NewMutants#98 to Incredible Hulk #181 as they both had similar print runs and by looking at the census Hulk #181 looks like it was slabbed more than New Mutants #98. so either FF# 1 is undervalued or Hulk #181/NewMutants# 98 are overvalued.

 

Which is a total no-brainer. The 'value' of a #181 was such that, in most grades, the slabbing fees would get covered and you'd be way up on the deal for having the book graded. With the #98, there was no incentive to slab it unless you thought it had a real shot at the 9.6-10.0 range.

 

Despite this, the difference in total number of copies slabbed is not that great given the above. This suggests that there are tens of thousands of #98s out there and a lot of them will be getting subbed in the near future, given this particular sale.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Again, you are an exception to the rule.

 

What empirical evidence leads you to believe this? I know new readers aren't coming in, but I don't see why people wouldn't rediscover comics today at the same rate as they have in the past...I would think the opposite is true SPECIFICALLY because of the films.

 

So where are they, then?

[fantastic_four]

So where are they, then?

 

Logging onto Pedigree and ComicLink setting insanely high record prices the last two years.

[VintageComics]

Nope. Not going to happen. You are one of the few exceptions who will look back on the 90s with affection. The vast majority of potential 'returners' will understand that they were fed garbage and generally lost their shirts.

 

Additionally, whilst the 60s and 70s were very much 'comic generations' in terms of entertainment for kids, the 80s and 90s will have a lot more competition when it comes down to nostalgic yearnings.

 

Why wouldn't the superhero movies of the 2000s reconnect these people to comics? I got forced out of comics in the mid-90s myself, but the X-Men film in 2000 pulled me back into them. The easy availability of them due to the Internet intensified my interest, much as it has intensified the entire market.

 

Again, you are an exception to the rule.

 

At the same time as the huge success of the film franchises, the comic readership numbers have continued to decline. Yes, people think it's cool to see their old heroes up on the screen, or discover them for the first time, but it hasn't driven them back to the source material.

 

No, maybe not as many new people as we would like, but certainly older people with bigger paychecks than they had in 1990.

 

 

[comicalgems]

You guys are making me want to pick a fifth grade class somewhere and give them all subscriptions to....hmm, wait...what title is kid friendly these days?

 

As much sex as Spidey is having, I'm not up for signing the kiddos up for that and as much death as in TWD I can't get on board there. Super Hero Action Squad maybe?

[Silver Surfer]

 

Not my cup of tea, the cover art is putrid, I think the price is beyond ridiculous but some people like to do crack and fist themselves so I guess this is the comic book purchase equivalent of that?

[Timeless icons]

So where are they, then?

 

Logging onto Pedigree and ComicLink setting insanely high record prices the last two years.

 

[bedrockcomics]

You guys are making me want to pick a fifth grade class somewhere and give them all subscriptions to....hmm, wait...what title is kid friendly these days?

 

As much sex as Spidey is having, I'm not up for signing the kiddos up for that and as much death as in TWD I can't get on board there. Super Hero Action Squad maybe?

how bout black kiss that kid friendly?

[comicalgems]

You guys are making me want to pick a fifth grade class somewhere and give them all subscriptions to....hmm, wait...what title is kid friendly these days?

 

As much sex as Spidey is having, I'm not up for signing the kiddos up for that and as much death as in TWD I can't get on board there. Super Hero Action Squad maybe?

how bout black kiss that kid friendly?

 

Not sure what Black Kiss is?

 

I just read ASM 611 and if that's the way Deadpool is consistently portrayed then I'm not sure I can get on board with his 1st appearance being that high after all.

 

Haha.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope. Not going to happen. You are one of the few exceptions who will look back on the 90s with affection. The vast majority of potential 'returners' will understand that they were fed garbage and generally lost their shirts.

 

Additionally, whilst the 60s and 70s were very much 'comic generations' in terms of entertainment for kids, the 80s and 90s will have a lot more competition when it comes down to nostalgic yearnings.

 

Why wouldn't the superhero movies of the 2000s reconnect these people to comics? I got forced out of comics in the mid-90s myself, but the X-Men film in 2000 pulled me back into them. The easy availability of them due to the Internet intensified my interest, much as it has intensified the entire market.

 

Again, you are an exception to the rule.

 

At the same time as the huge success of the film franchises, the comic readership numbers have continued to decline. Yes, people think it's cool to see their old heroes up on the screen, or discover them for the first time, but it hasn't driven them back to the source material.

 

No, maybe not as many new people as we would like, but certainly older people with bigger paychecks than they had in 1990.

 

 

Look, folks...the market is significantly smaller now than it was in the early 90's. Movies aside, "record prices" aside...the fact is, there are far fewer buyers of comics, there are far fewer readers of comics, and there are vastly few sellers of comics.

 

Yes, in the early 90's, there were a lot of speculators of comics who couldn't tell you the difference between Alec Holland and Alex Trebek, but there were also substantially more readers...especially younger readers (ages 5-13) and older readers (ages 30+) who were either just getting into comics, or had been reading them for a while before the glut.

 

The younger readers were trampled on in the pursuit of money (if you didn't get the book the second it came out, hahahaha! SUCKAH!!!!) and the older readers, who had to fight for copies of books they didn't have to fight for just a few short years before, threw their hands up in disgust at the giant Franklin Mint that was the comics industry.

 

It took a gut of steel to ride out the early 90's, and most people just gave up.

 

Trust me, it is very much in my best interests to get hordes of new collectors into the hobby....but they simply don't exist. Print runs alone bear this out.

 

The people who are paying "the big money" are generally people who have been in the hobby since, or before, the glut.

[RockMyAmadeus]

You guys are making me want to pick a fifth grade class somewhere and give them all subscriptions to....hmm, wait...what title is kid friendly these days?

 

As much sex as Spidey is having, I'm not up for signing the kiddos up for that and as much death as in TWD I can't get on board there. Super Hero Action Squad maybe?

how bout black kiss that kid friendly?

 

Not sure what Black Kiss is?.

 

A great book by Howard Chaykin. Definitely not for kids.

[EastEnd]

I think you have to separate comic book readers from comic book collectors. I agree that the population of comic book readers is shrinking... I know that I gave up on moderns about a year ago after thirty years of fairly religious buying. But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it). I follow numerous collectible hobbies and I can tell you that there's a lot of buzz out there these days about comics... one of the few collectibles that has really exploded in recent years (illustration art is up there as well) and folks that frequent auction houses, antique fairs, and collectibles in general are taking some notice.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think you have to separate comic book readers from comic book collectors.

 

Thought I already did....

 

there are far fewer buyers of comics, there are far fewer readers of comics

 

:shrug:

[DarkKnightReturns]

RMA - sell me your crappy New Mutant 98's.

 

I can't wait till someone gets a CGC 10. Maybe it will sell for 30k

[RockMyAmadeus]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

 

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

 

I'll argue against that vociferously.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

 

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

 

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

 

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

[Flaming_Telepath]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago...

 

If you're making the comparison with '98-'99, perhaps...perhaps not.

 

Any other time period? Not a chance. Late 80s and early 90s, there were LCSs absolutely everywhere...and all of them stocked 1,000s & 1,000s & 1,000s of back issues. Hell, a good proportion of their income was generated this way.

 

These days? Try to find a LCS. Try to find one with back issues.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

 

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

 

I'll argue against that vociferously.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

 

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

 

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

 

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

I think they will go back to 100k readers a month for Spider-man and Batman but the majority of those 100k readers will be reading thier adventures on the i-phone or upcoming I-tablet, once Spiderman/Batman comics become mainstream on the iphone, a new generation will make the keys even more expensive as they also will now seek the keys out.The high grade keys will continue to go up for silver/golden ages.I definately would not expect a crash for the real popular characters like Batman, Wolverine and Spider-man.

Edited November 13, 2009 by MR.COMICBOOK

[fantastic_four]

CGC and the Internet have definitively increased the population of one segment of the collecting market--high grade collectors. If it wasn't so easy to get a complete collection of lower-grade books via eBay and dealer sites, I would have never gravitated to high grade so quickly, or perhaps ever. And even if I had started collecting high grade with no Internet to push me towards it, if certification wasn't around, undisclosed additive restoration could have forced me right back out of high grade years ago.

 

Pre-CGC, guys hunting through longboxes for 9.6 and 9.8 copies were as rare as the chupacabra, as everything above 9.0 was about the same to virtually the entire grade-conscious collecting community, with a few notable exceptions. Today, you'll find them all over the web and at every con.

[RockMyAmadeus]

But I think there is no question that there are more back issue collectors today than there was before Ebay and CGC... has to be... there's too much more money in play today vs ten years ago... and it's not just the same people buying and selling to each other (though that is part of it).

 

You're going to have to clarify before I'll agree.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1993?"

 

I'll argue against that vociferously.

 

Do you mean "there are more collectors now than in 1999?"

 

Then yes, you'd be correct. A LOT of people were burned on comics in the early 90's and left in disgust. Younger buyers couldn't afford anything, so they left (and then grew up and came back), 20-something buyers were burned on comics, and some of THEM came back, and 30+ took a break, and they came back.

 

But the reality is, for every new collector who has gotten into comics since 1996, the hobby has lost 5-10 who collected prior to that, that it has not replaced. And SPECULATORS came back, in much diminished numbers, in 2007 with Cap #25, otherwise they're gone (and good riddance.)

 

When Spiderman #1 (McFarlane) sells for $5-$6 on eBay, and average print runs go back to 100K, instead of 25K, THEN I'll believe that we've gotten back the numbers that were lost in the mid 90's.

I think they will go back to 100k readers a month for Spider-man and Batman but the majority of those 100k readers will be reading thier adventures on the i-phone or upcoming I-tablet, once Spiderman/Batman comics become mainstream on the iphone, a new generation will make the keys even more expensive as they also will now seek the keys out.The high grade keys will continue to go up for silver/golden ages.I definately would not expect a crash for the real popular characters like Batman and Spider-man.

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

[VintageComics]

 

I may be in the minority, but I really don't think anything is going to replace actual printed comics....or other printed fiction...for a very, very long time.

 

People at the forefront of this digital "revolution" are totally ignoring the visceral reaction to holding a piece of printed stuff in your hands, kicking back on the couch, and reading it.

 

Agreed.