Changes to Probation List and Hall Of SHame List

[spidrvacc]

HA HA. I feel like a dope that I cant find it and been here for years. I probally belong on the list just for admiting I didnt know where it is.

 

 

What forum is the Hall of Shame list and the Probation list.

 

Welcome to the Boards!

[divad]

(BTW, Divad is a personal friend - we don't see each other except the occasional get together with forumites but I do consider him a personal friend and am not laying this on him.)

 

I confirm that I am a personal friend of Michael And I welcome any discourse on the topic. It was such discourse that led to the "confirmation" vote. Personally, I think Dr. Frankenstein aka Muscleshark's record speaks for itself. Why does anyone need an aka anyway?

[Bruce1971]

There should be a section were people cant sell, along with the normal list and HOS.

So we let them troll the boards, waiting for a fish that are not aware of the probation list and sell their trimmed/touched-up/overgraded books because they have a good reason to hang around - they are allowed to keep buying?

No put him on the Seller section of the Probation List

Why? The dude's a total spoon! Why go out of our way to make it easy for him to keep buying?

Exactly!

 

So they stick around because they are allowed to buy, and every once in a while make a hidden sale by trolling the WTB forum. They make sure to go after newbies only with the hope they do not know about the probation list.

 

What a safe place we'll create for fellow collectors.

 

Thought the mods dont want anything to do with our buying/selling. Trying to ban them for probation/HOS stuff might ruin it for us all.

[G.A.tor]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

[Speedy-D]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

All true, but this is really not about the grade change. I see tons of sales threads with overgraded over-priced comics. They just don't sell. That's annoying, but it's fine. muscleshark/Frank is in a different class. If we had a live sales get-together, a little mini-con, and he started screaming and yelling at folks for calling him on his shysterisms, he'd get the boot right quick. No wondering whether he should be allowed to buy but not sell, just a free pass through the out door.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

HA HA. I feel like a dope that I cant find it and been here for years. I probally belong on the list just for admiting I didnt know where it is.

 

 

Probation discussion.

 

Probation list/Hall of Shame is in my sig line.

[14 of spades]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

 

What is deceptive is that he lied about it.

 

And on top of that, more lies - that he used the same scan (his excuse) and it turns out, it wasn't even the same scan.

 

When you attempt to perpetrate fraud, admitting to it gets you forgiven (generally). He tried to get out of it with more lies. That doesn't go well in most people's books.

[thirdgreenham]

What forum is the Hall of Shame list and the Probation list.

 

Click on the drop-down box near the top, it says "Comics General" right now. Scroll down and click on "Comics Market - Forum Only Selling Area".

 

Scroll down on that page and you'll see:

 

• Golden/Silver/Bronze Age Only

 

• Copper / Modern Age Only

 

• Mixed Age Threads and Misc

 

• Virtual Comic Con (VCC) Hall

 

....and below that.....

 

• USAGE GUIDELINES - Read BEFORE posting =============

 

• PROBATION DISCUSSIONS

 

• ANNOUNCEMENT THREAD - post pre-sale announcements

 

• GENERAL DISCUSSION - keep the other threads clean

 

• KUDOS THREAD - positive feedback on buyers/sellers

 

• PROBATION THREAD - for forum sales problems

 

• GUIDELINES - comment thread

 

• Auctions

 

 

PROBATION DISCUSSIONS is for talking about potential problems or issues that you may have, or giving your opinion on other folks' problems.

 

PROBATION THREAD - for forum sales problems is where you view the updated list of who you should avoid like the plague. This thread is supposed to be void of discussion, but there are people who don't know what the they're doing, constantly discussing their probation problems in there.

 

Hope this helps. (thumbs u

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BrianR]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

 

The cracking out and bumping the grade bugs me as it wasn't disclosed, saying that I don't think he should be on the list for that reason.

 

Now what I feel was totally dishonest IMO is the scans he used to sell the books.

 

As Muscleshark, he was selling a book on here as a 9.2 with a scan that removed the dirt and flaws on the B/C while on ebay he was selling the same book at the same time as a 9.0 with a normal scan that showed the flaws.

 

His excuse, the scanner glitched. My question he had the other scan why didn't he use it and why the grade bump on here with the cleaner scan. His friends bought this a scanner mistake and supported him which is fine

 

Then we jump ahead and another book has what looks like a lightened scan hiding flaws and a grade bump. Then we get a wrong scan excuse.

 

It shows a pattern of apparent dishonesty.

 

I don't know Frank and never did any business with him so I have no horse in this race. Heck, he knows I don't care for him and I am positive he feels the same about me. Should others be made aware of his actions? Yes. Should he be on the Hall of Shame? I don't know.

 

I do believe he is on the list based on his attitude about the situation as well as his selling practices. The first may be influencing the other a bit.

 

[Agent 007]

I say no 3 strikes. You do something unethical or try to sell something without Integrity, you get the hall of shame. If you can do it 1 time, I have no doubt they did it before without being caught.

[mschmidt]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

 

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with CGC's grading and the scam that Frankenstein was trying to pull.

 

1) He took a pressed CGC 8.5 book, cracked it, either digitally manipulated or dry-cleaned the back cover to make it seem nicer than it was, and then tried to pass it off as a raw 9.2 with no disclosure of the pressing (which I personally don't care about), the fact that he'd doctored the back cover scan (which I do care about), and the fact that CGC had given it a much lower grade than what he was trying to sell it as (which moves him squarely into Robojo territory).

 

2) When confronted about this he weaved a pathetic web of lies, claiming the books weren't the same, he had sold the CGC book to a customer on ebay, to another customer at Wondercon, and started doling out promises of beat-downs and lawsuits against the people who were libelling his good name. He then took to PM'ing basically anyone who participated in the thread, and continued with the whole "meet me at SDCC if you're real man"-nonsense and happy salutations of " you". That earned him a second strike from the mods.

 

And, to make things even better, he'd been caught digitally manipulating scans before - which resulted in him blowing up, threatening people, telling them to "go themselves" which, surprise surprise, had resulted in him getting his first strike.

 

See the pattern here?

[paperheart]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

 

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with CGC's grading and the scam that Frankenstein was trying to pull.

 

1) He took a pressed CGC 8.5 book, cracked it, either digitally manipulated or dry-cleaned the back cover to make it seem nicer than it was, and then tried to pass it off as a raw 9.2 with no disclosure of the pressing (which I personally don't care about), the fact that he'd doctored the back cover scan (which I do care about), and the fact that CGC had given it a much lower grade than what he was trying to sell it as (which moves him squarely into Robojo territory).

 

2) When confronted about this he weaved a pathetic web of lies, claiming the books weren't the same, he had sold the CGC book to a customer on ebay, to another customer at Wondercon, and started doling out promises of beat-downs and lawsuits against the people who were libelling his good name. He then took to PM'ing basically anyone who participated in the thread, and continued with the whole "meet me at SDCC if you're real man"-nonsense and happy salutations of " you". That earned him a second strike from the mods.

 

And, to make things even better, he'd been caught digitally manipulating scans before - which resulted in him blowing up, threatening people, telling them to "go themselves" which, surprise surprise, had resulted in him getting his first strike.

 

See the pattern here?

 

this seems to be a more accurate/detailed recap of what happened.

[PovertyRow]

I said in the Prob Disc thread that the non-disclosed pressing was not a factor so much as the digital manipulation of the scans. Pressing is a controversial issue and as such is not enough to get one in the HoS. But doctoring your scans to get a grade bump is as far as I'm concerned.

 

Speedy, was it proven that the scans were digitally manipulated? That was a question I had asked but it was never answered.

[BrianR]

I said in the Prob Disc thread that the non-disclosed pressing was not a factor so much as the digital manipulation of the scans. Pressing is a controversial issue and as such is not enough to get one in the HoS. But doctoring your scans to get a grade bump is as far as I'm concerned.

 

Speedy, was it proven that the scans were digitally manipulated? That was a question I had asked but it was never answered.

 

The first one in question the ASM. he had two scans of the back cover one for Ebay and a Lightened one on here. The grade was higher here than on ebay.

 

He claimed the scanner "flashed" resulting in a lightened scan, yet he still had the other good scan. His excuse made no sense.

[comix4fun]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

 

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with CGC's grading and the scam that Frankenstein was trying to pull.

 

1) He took a pressed CGC 8.5 book, cracked it, either digitally manipulated or dry-cleaned the back cover to make it seem nicer than it was, and then tried to pass it off as a raw 9.2 with no disclosure of the pressing (which I personally don't care about), the fact that he'd doctored the back cover scan (which I do care about), and the fact that CGC had given it a much lower grade than what he was trying to sell it as (which moves him squarely into Robojo territory).

 

2) When confronted about this he weaved a pathetic web of lies, claiming the books weren't the same, he had sold the CGC book to a customer on ebay, to another customer at Wondercon, and started doling out promises of beat-downs and lawsuits against the people who were libelling his good name. He then took to PM'ing basically anyone who participated in the thread, and continued with the whole "meet me at SDCC if you're real man"-nonsense and happy salutations of " you". That earned him a second strike from the mods.

 

And, to make things even better, he'd been caught digitally manipulating scans before - which resulted in him blowing up, threatening people, telling them to "go themselves" which, surprise surprise, had resulted in him getting his first strike.

 

See the pattern here?

 

Thank you Michael,

I was too tired tonight to recite the entire saga. I was hoping you were around to lay it out clearly and concisely.

 

Here we have several patterns of behavior from "Muscleshark/Dr. Frankenstein" : Dishonesty, Diversion, Denial, Threats of Violence, Random shots at anyone and everyone in an attempt to prevent the focus from being directed on whatever odd behavior/ questionable selling tactics he's using this week.

 

He barely avoided an outright ban this last time, I can't believe we are even debating whether he belongs in the Hall of Shame.

[KryptoSpidey]

Whether or not Dr.Frankenstein a member of the Hall Of Shame or not...

 

There is one thing that is certain people will have a hard time trusting him

until he works a solution out with the problem with kryptospidey the board members.

 

 

I'm not getting into this, nor am I taking sides - I am just saying that until this has

some sort of conclusion he's basically in the HOS already.

 

 

 

 

Fixed that for you.

..there is nothing to work out with me. Period.

That book left my hands sold in good faith to a fellow boardie...What happened next is on his shoulders....

There is nothing he can try to say to change that.

Frank has to work out this problem with the board members,not me personally.

[PovertyRow]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

 

On that I definitely agree and elaborated on it. How many posts have we seen (to repeat myself) that a book got a lower grade because a CGC Grader had a bad night or got a higher grade because a CGC Grader "scored" that night? Tons of them. People post that sometimes tongue in cheek but the thought and the reality of CGC's inconsistency is there.

 

Again - I am NOT defending Frank. But I AM questioning the board. Seems to be a dual standard here.

[KryptoSpidey]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

 

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with CGC's grading and the scam that Frankenstein was trying to pull.

 

1) He took a pressed CGC 8.5 book, cracked it, either digitally manipulated or dry-cleaned the back cover to make it seem nicer than it was, and then tried to pass it off as a raw 9.2 with no disclosure of the pressing (which I personally don't care about), the fact that he'd doctored the back cover scan (which I do care about), and the fact that CGC had given it a much lower grade than what he was trying to sell it as (which moves him squarely into Robojo territory).

 

2) When confronted about this he weaved a pathetic web of lies, claiming the books weren't the same, he had sold the CGC book to a customer on ebay, to another customer at Wondercon, and started doling out promises of beat-downs and lawsuits against the people who were libelling his good name. He then took to PM'ing basically anyone who participated in the thread, and continued with the whole "meet me at SDCC if you're real man"-nonsense and happy salutations of " you". That earned him a second strike from the mods.

 

And, to make things even better, he'd been caught digitally manipulating scans before - which resulted in him blowing up, threatening people, telling them to "go themselves" which, surprise surprise, had resulted in him getting his first strike.

 

See the pattern here?

This is also one thing that struck me wierd.Out of all the ranting,and fist pumping going on in the thread that i started,calling him out on this whole mess.And all the nasty PM's people recieved from Frank,I HAVE NEVER RECIEVED ONE SINGLE PM FROM HIM, about the situation up to this point right now.

Don't you think I would have been the first one to get PM'd or even PM'd at all about it if he truelly felt i was causing an unjust problem?

[Agent 007]

He bought a CGC 8.5 cracked out of the case tried to sell it as a 9.2. That is pretty fraudulent in my book. But hey, anyone that wants to support him, well they can go and buy books off of Robo on Ebay as well.

 

Get rid of the Scammers.

 

 

Bruce

 

CGC is not the be all and end all of grading. In and of itself, I don't think that's deceptive. And I'd suggest to you that many major dealers engage in this practice, doesn't make it "right" or a justification, but I hardly think that is on the same level as outright fraud.

 

The grade CGC gives is an opinion, so if a seller sells it at a higher grade cracked out, I wouldn't call it fraud.

I was about to say the same thing (thumbs u

 

grading is subjective and I can't count the number of times sellers have been more than 2 grades off of what cgc states...not saying the sellers are right or wrong, just that grading is what it is...judge the book, not the number

 

There's a huge difference between disagreeing with CGC's grading and the scam that Frankenstein was trying to pull.

 

1) He took a pressed CGC 8.5 book, cracked it, either digitally manipulated or dry-cleaned the back cover to make it seem nicer than it was, and then tried to pass it off as a raw 9.2 with no disclosure of the pressing (which I personally don't care about), the fact that he'd doctored the back cover scan (which I do care about), and the fact that CGC had given it a much lower grade than what he was trying to sell it as (which moves him squarely into Robojo territory).

 

2) When confronted about this he weaved a pathetic web of lies, claiming the books weren't the same, he had sold the CGC book to a customer on ebay, to another customer at Wondercon, and started doling out promises of beat-downs and lawsuits against the people who were libelling his good name. He then took to PM'ing basically anyone who participated in the thread, and continued with the whole "meet me at SDCC if you're real man"-nonsense and happy salutations of " you". That earned him a second strike from the mods.

 

And, to make things even better, he'd been caught digitally manipulating scans before - which resulted in him blowing up, threatening people, telling them to "go themselves" which, surprise surprise, had resulted in him getting his first strike.

 

See the pattern here?

This is also one thing that struck me wierd.Out of all the ranting,and fist pumping going on in the thread that i started,calling him out on this whole mess.And all the nasty PM's people recieved from Frank,I HAVE NEVER RECIEVED ONE SINGLE PM FROM HIM, about the situation up to this point right now.

Don't you think I would have been the first one to get PM'd or even PM'd at all about it if he truelly felt i was causing an unjust problem?

 

I agree. +infinity

[BrianR]

Pov,

 

I showed these before, the lighter one here w/ a higher grade, the darker one ebay w/ lower grade.

 

 

Krpyto,

 

I too have never receive a nasty PM from Frank. You would think that I would have, but I never got one.