My EBAY Nightmare

[skypinkblu]

Here's that 'bear with me stuff' I warned you about; what is the specific problem implied

by doing a 'person to person' transaction? [screaming newbie, right?].

The lack of escrow? Involving a credit card adds the 3rd person,yes?

I mean, if one makes a personal payment with PAYPAL as , say a 'gift' but

finances that using one's personal CC, doesn't that cover one's keester?

No using Paypal personal does not cover you AT ALL, you can't use a credit card that way unless you PAY the fees, the money has to come from your bank account...plus if you are buying a book for over $15k, it's not a gift, it's just a way to avoid fees and Paypal could rightfully cancel your privileges to use the personal service that way, it's already happened to at least one person here.

[fantastic_four]

With a large purchase like this, the best way to avoid the "empty box" problem is to simply pick it up at the post office and open it in front of a PO witness, take pictures. I honestly have not heard of very many of these problems, although I'm SURE there are some, just like WE have a probation thread here. No place is safe, you have to use common sense.

 

However, there is another option on eBay, escrow. You do have to pay a fee and you can't use a credit card over $5k, but fees are sometimes the cost of doing business.

eBay pays tremendous advertising fees, that's how we all find each other, and that was why I thought perhaps they deserved a few cents. This wasn't a transaction where someone bought a book and said "hey, so you have anything else"? It was this transaction on this book that caused people to find each other.

 

I would probably look at it differently if it was a boarder who knew the seller already and just happened to see a link here that the seller posted.

 

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this? If they're knowledgeable enough--which granted isn't likely--I'd think they wouldn't want to get involved in authentication of items within a package at all. It's beyond the service they offer and opens up a can of worms that could get ugly and suck their time doing something that isn't their job if the item does turn out to be inauthentic. Even if you assume a postal worker will help you, the opportunity for fraud just goes on though. You've listed countermeasures, fraudsters counter those, and the game continues. Next stage--I mail you a 1966 reprint of Spidey #1 instead of the 1963 original, which the postal worker will just shake their head at while you're sitting there freaking out in the post office. I know half a dozen people who have lost $5K or more from E-Bay scams exploiting E-Bay and PayPal protection loopholes, most of which are board members here...why take that risk? Anyone who buys vintage books for long tires of the games and the easy way out is to simply stop using E-Bay for high-end books--EXCEPT when it's a trusted seller. I've dropped $5K - $6K on E-Bay when it's someone I know is a dealer outside of E-Bay.

 

I group E-Bay buyers of expensive books into two categories--people unaware of the risks, who aren't likely to take any of the measures we could list here to protect themselves, and people who are acutely aware of the risk. It doesn't take people who fall into that second camp long to realize their money is more easily and more safely spent elsewhere when they're dropping thousands on a big book. As a knowledgeable buyer, why would you EVER take the risk knowing that as price increases the chance for fraud increases, other than if you get a book on the extreme cheap or someone happens to list a very rare book unobtainable elsewhere?

[MCF335]

We've probably passed each other at a NY show!

Sorry if I end up making this thread look like a cat's toy

Your kind words regarding John are most welcomed;

He must be grinning ear to ear... I am tempted to hop a plane

and fetch that book mano a mano just to meet the bloke!

Seriously, I am so preoccupied with this event; This will be

the biggest purchase I've ever made for a comic, if I can find

the guts to go forward....My greatest fear is of the unknown.

I have tried to get confirmation of coverage should I pay via PP

as a personal gift, by using my non-PP credit card.Will a CC company cover my gifts

should something go awry?

I have called several times & I still haven't really been given a clear answer.

I am hearing nothing but fine comments about John, that's for sure.

I'm stuck on the admonition "count on the uncountable"....

 

 

[skypinkblu]

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this? If they're knowledgeable enough--which granted isn't likely--I'd think they wouldn't want to get involved in authentication of items within a package at all.

I group E-Bay buyers of expensive books into two categories--people unaware of the risks, who aren't likely to take any of the measures we could list here to protect themselves, and people who are acutely aware of the risk. It doesn't take people who fall into that second camp long to realize their money is more easily and more safely spent elsewhere when they're dropping thousands on a big book. As a knowledgeable buyer, why would you EVER take the risk knowing that as price increases the chance for fraud increases, other than if you get a book on the extreme cheap or someone happens to list a very rare book unobtainable elsewhere?

 

I live in a small town (well next to NYC it's small), I know most of the postal workers, there would be no problem with opening something in front of them and taking pictures at a PO. If it were Midtown, it might be different, .HERE, the post master would do it. I don't think it's even an unusual request.

 

I'm with you on the last part, but then again, I don't buy $15k books, I am more likely to buy 30 $500.00 books.

[skypinkblu]

We've probably passed each other at a NY show!

Sorry if I end up making this thread look like a cat's toy

Your kind words regarding John are most welcomed;

He must be grinning ear to ear... I am tempted to hop a plane

and fetch that book mano a mano just to meet the bloke!

Seriously, I am so preoccupied with this event; This will be

the biggest purchase I've ever made for a comic, if I can find

the guts to go forward....My greatest fear is of the unknown.

I have tried to get confirmation of coverage should I pay via PP

as a personal gift, by using my non-PP credit card.Will a CC company cover my gifts

should something go awry?

I have called several times & I still haven't really been given a clear answer.

I am hearing nothing but fine comments about John, that's for sure.

I'm stuck on the admonition "count on the uncountable"....

 

 

Perhaps we will meet at the next show...however, if you send a "gift" there is no protection, since you are making a "gift" . Personal Paypal is not supposed to be used for transactions involving sales. If you use your credit card and not a bank transfer, one of you has to pay the fees, either you, or him. In that case you will have the protection of your credit card.

 

Does that make sense?

[fantastic_four]

I'm with you on the last part, but then again, I don't buy $15k books, I am more likely to buy 30 $500.00 books.[/color]

 

I still check E-Bay weekly for those types of books, it has just become a graveyard for overpriced for the stuff I buy. It used to be the primary place I bought comics, but not anymore, I barely buy there now.

[VintageComics]

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this?

 

Because it's their job.

 

[Point Five]

I live in a small town (well next to NYC it's small), I know most of the postal workers, there would be no problem with opening something in front of them and taking pictures at a PO. If it were Midtown, it might be different, .

"Might be"? I should ask the Midtown employees to do this and take pictures of their reactions... now that would be a thread to remember.

 

[KryptoSpidey]

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this?

 

Because it's their job.

 

Exactly.

The whole mess that happened to the other Boardie,with the Batman #1 sold by Alleybat ,the $5g scam,was supported because the package was opened at the USPS post office in front of the Postal inspector,and a Fraud case was immediately filed.

I have a very good relationship with my local postal supervisor/inspector, and I in no way live in a small town area here in so. florida.In the event it needed to go that route,it would be no issue.I have opened several packages at the post office in front of him for just this reason,all have been fine tho,so there was no problems.

It just seems to me that fantastic_four has absolutely no faith in ANY of the systems set up to protect people...Paypal,USPS Mail Fraud,ect....

[skypinkblu]

Well, "small" is relative in NY, kind of like Texas, ...the population is presently 18k...but it's a lot smaller than where I grew up.

 

Even when I worked in lower Manhattan, I knew the people in that Post Office, it would not have been a problem...but Midtown..

[KryptoSpidey]

Well, "small" is relative in NY, kind of like Texas, ...the population is presently 18k...but it's a lot smaller than where I grew up.

 

Even when I worked in lower Manhattan, I knew the people in that Post Office, it would not have been a problem...but Midtown..

I think as in most things,a lot has to do with "who you know" and how you approach things.

I have a very good relationship,as i stated,with the people at my local p.o.

They know i have many packages coming and going,for large $ amounts.

They have gone as far as to sit down and find a "registered article" thru "seal #'s".

A very slow process that required calling every stop along the package's "seal" route.

It was eventually tracked down,sitting at a P.O for 8 days...a "Registered" package insured at $17,000.

Midtown,and i know exactly what you are talking about,would be a long shot

[MCF335]

Paying the CC fees is a given. Point being; By electing to send a gift via PP but authorizing/funding it with a non-PP card, doesn't that take the ball out of PP's court

putting it under coverage with the CC? I thought the gift procedure helps the receiver

of funds [strategies like sending below the 10G mark avoid federal scrutiny,yes?]

BTW, is that MISS AMERICA #1 the one with ELIZABETH TAYLOR on the cover?

[MCF335]

Yes, that does make sense...BTW,this bit about following the threads [no joke,I love cats & the toys they bat around, but I am embarrassed to admit I am stumbling to follow the thread.

Chalk that up to being nervous,scattered & recovering from heat exhaustion...

I grabbed this thread by clicking on your handle,is that the best way?

[InvstmntComcSuply]

The 15,000 verification level probably causes significantly lower realized prices when auctions close around this level. I am sure if you graphed auction results there would be a large flat spot on the curve around this level.

 

In this case, it was likely exacerbated by the item being auctioned, an ASM 1 in 8.0. This particular book will have significantly more 1st time high bidders (bidders who have never placed a bid in the $15K range and have not been verified) than an average $15K Golden age or a $15K CGC 9.8 silver key because the pool of bidders for an ASM 1 in 8.0 is significantly larger than the other two examples. Additionally and more importantly, it is likely the peak of collecting for the people in said pool and thus they will not have ever spent that much prior and thus had no reason to go through the verification process.

 

This was the perfect storm for a seller to get screwed, however, the auction process still functioned as designed.

 

So what can we learn out of this? First and foremost, Never, Never, use the auction format for any book that even has a whiff of a chance to sell around $15K. Not even with a reserve. Buy it Now with Best offer is likely the best option. This of course will change with the wind as eBay continues to modify policy on a regular basis.

 

By the way, if you think that something that caused such a significant depression in final values would be quickly resolved. Don't hold your breath. The reason why eBay has not made any changes to this process is because it is not costing eBay any money. They are not losing any fees, because they are only being paid a flat $50 final value fee, whether it sells for $14K or $40K.

[VintageComics]

I grabbed this thread by clicking on your handle,is that the best way?

 

Mike, the best way to get used to a chat forum is to click around a while and get used to your surroundings.

 

If you are going to post many replies but are trying to reply to someone directly, it helps to hit the "quote" button rather than the "reply" button. That way it quotes them and then you can type under the "quoted" text as a direct reply to whomever you are talking to. Just like I did above.

 

Also, getting used to typing on a chat forum is different than talking. It takes a little time and patience to get your thought out in writing for others to understand.

 

Spacing things out, gathering your thoughts before typing them, and using correct punctuation and spelling will all help in getting your meanings across to readers while avoiding confusion and misunderstanding.

 

Hope that helps!

[fantastic_four]

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this?

 

Because it's their job.

 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but how do you know that? It's not something I would expect to be part of their job.

[fantastic_four]

It just seems to me that fantastic_four has absolutely no faith in ANY of the systems set up to protect people...Paypal,USPS Mail Fraud,ect....

 

It's more like I have great respect for people's ability to perpetuate fraud via essentially anonymous Internet transactions. I say "essentially anonymous" because people can and do fake their identity with PayPal, E-Bay, etc on a mass scale.

[hockey&comicsguy]

What reason is there to believe a postal worker will help you like this?

 

Because it's their job.

 

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, but how do you know that? It's not something I would expect to be part of their job.

 

I ship everything I can via UPS and avoid the USPS at all costs. From the long lines to the many incompetent (and some competent) folks behind the counter, I don't really put much stock into them helping me out with anything. Least of all giving two kraps about watching me open a package for verification. They seem more interested in shuffling people through as slowly as possible with as little effort as possible.

[CKB]

Regarding a CC on file; I actually have SEVERAL cards on file

& have always used them in preference to PP instant transfer.

 

OK, you have cards on file with Paypal, not eBay. They are the same thing now but didn't used to be,

 

Did you ever go through the process where Paypal made a very small charge to your credit card and you had to go to a paypal page and report the amount of the charge?

 

[plasticide-migration]

 

That's more than I can say for most of the pantywaists around here...

 

 

(That was the best JC impression I have. How'd I do...?)

 

FAIL! Unlike him, you're funny and can laugh at yourself.

 

Doesn't "bread-stick arms" have to be in there too, or is that cliche by now?