Disclosure - Yes Or No?

[divad]

 

'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

That's more words than I post in a month . . .

[Turtle]

I'm all for disclosure. That said, Gator brought up the notion that at some point we may have to assume that all books have been pressed just to be on the safe side. From the way I understand it, a big reason people wouldn't disclose is that it would either cost them a sale from someone who doesn't like pressed books or cause them to realize a lower price than a non-pressed book in some cases.

 

Listing a book as "pressed" may lead to a lower or slower sale of a book. A seller that cares nothing for his personal integrity gains nothing from listing a book as pressed. Conversely, listing a book as "not pressed" may lead to quicker sales and would actually be beneficial to the seller to disclose a book's lack of pressing.

 

What are the thoughts on assuming that all books in the marketplace are pressed unless noted by the seller has having "never been pressed"? Sorry if this has been covered before, but this is a big thread.

[Flaming_Telepath]

However, the lack of response will certain highlight those who refuse to disclose (in the face of community wishes) and people can do what they want with that information.

That makes the most sense for a next step. It's also what I've seen happen with sellers posting photos and no grades, although sometimes it turns confrontational.

 

Without a designated board rules admin short of a mod, not sure there is more that can be done.

 

Aside from asking questions and hoping for an honest answer the only power you hold as a buyer is to keep your money or spend it elsewhere.

 

Precisely.

 

And if it's not in the rules, but the sellers who refuse to abide by the community's desires are highlighted, people will be more informed as to who they feel comfortable spending their money with.

 

It can go back all the way to the post that George made regarding 'supporting' those who disclose. They will get 'rewarded' under pro-active disclosure, because they will be clearly identified as honest, community-minded sellers.

[TupennyConan]

Folks can line-up here & sell free of fees, including free of paypal fees with personal options,

 

 

The following guidelines are now in effect. Over some period of time these may be modified or expanded.

 

 

9. List acceptable forms of payment (NOTE: Personal PayPal payment is NOT allowed as a listed option in your post as it is not appropriate for item purchases.)

 

Who reads the Rules?

 

The 15 or so sellers in the marketplace I send daily reminders to

“Nothing makes one so vain as being told one is a sinner. Conscience makes egotists of us all.”

 

Well that was nice. I'll use this to segue back to Joe's comment about Rules not making us honest. That's true. We can't legislate honesty but we can proscribe and/or compel conduct. The closest we've gotten to mandates of the mind would be "Thou Shalt Not Covet."

 

Oh, & allow me to flatter you, Jim: you're a handsome devil of a sinner with evil-smelling feet.

[FlyingDonut]

I also think making it mandatory levels out the playing field for good and bad. It's like saying everyone is special, then in effect no one is. Some will only disclose becasue they got caught with their pants down. They are forced. Still does not make them honest.

 

And I agree we can never make anyone honest in their hearts.

 

But if we can ensure that a number of them (not all) have to behave here with honesty...I'm struggling for a downside?

 

Have you even asked ARCH about putting discloser in the market place rules? If you haven't this is all mute.

 

All of this is silent?

[EastEnd]

I also think making it mandatory levels out the playing field for good and bad. It's like saying everyone is special, then in effect no one is. Some will only disclose becasue they got caught with their pants down. They are forced. Still does not make them honest.

 

And I agree we can never make anyone honest in their hearts.

 

But if we can ensure that a number of them (not all) have to behave here with honesty...I'm struggling for a downside?

 

Have you even asked ARCH about putting discloser in the market place rules? If you haven't this is all moot.

 

It's moot.

 

And no I haven't because this is still getting thrashed out.

 

However, if Arch doesn't feel comfortable with putting it in the rules, there are other ways of pushing for disclosure.

 

If he doesn't agree with it, there is no other way! It's not a good ideal to think you are better than the MODS. I for one will only disclose if ARCH agrees to put it in the rules or if someone ask me thats interested in the book. I was hoping Blazing Bob or foolkiller had something to say about this, they are both well respected members and I would like to hear what they thought.

 

Yes there is.

 

There is nothing to stop a post being made to the thread of the 'offending party', requesting disclosure. This would have to be civil and to the point, but it is simply a blanket way of 'asking the question'.

 

'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

I'm fine with this approach... perhaps not with those exact words, but in substance potential buyers are free to do this as we speak. Key is just to make sure everyone else behaves when a buyer posts it and when the response (or lack thereof) comes back.

 

I also believe that if a seller does not disclose, then a buyer should assume the sellers books have been pressed and procede accordingly... no histrionics, no organized boycotts... just assume it's been pressed and make your buying decision. If non-disclosure impacts the sellers wallet, then he'll either start disclosing or move on. But you really need to take the emotion out of this because if every non-disclosure becomes a cause for WWIII, then frankly, I'd support CGC just shutting down the marketplace.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I also think making it mandatory levels out the playing field for good and bad. It's like saying everyone is special, then in effect no one is. Some will only disclose becasue they got caught with their pants down. They are forced. Still does not make them honest.

 

And I agree we can never make anyone honest in their hearts.

 

But if we can ensure that a number of them (not all) have to behave here with honesty...I'm struggling for a downside?

 

Have you even asked ARCH about putting discloser in the market place rules? If you haven't this is all moot.

 

It's moot.

 

And no I haven't because this is still getting thrashed out.

 

However, if Arch doesn't feel comfortable with putting it in the rules, there are other ways of pushing for disclosure.

 

If he doesn't agree with it, there is no other way! It's not a good ideal to think you are better than the MODS. I for one will only disclose if ARCH agrees to put it in the rules or if someone ask me thats interested in the book. I was hoping Blazing Bob or foolkiller had something to say about this, they are both well respected members and I would like to hear what they thought.

 

Yes there is.

 

There is nothing to stop a post being made to the thread of the 'offending party', requesting disclosure. This would have to be civil and to the point, but it is simply a blanket way of 'asking the question'.

 

'Nice bunch of books! You may be aware that the community here is in favour of pro-active disclosure of pressing and with this in mind, could you identify which books you know have been pressed? Thanks!'

 

I'm fine with this approach... perhaps not with those exact words, but in substance potential buyers are free to do this as we speak. Key is just to make sure everyone else behaves when a buyer posts it and when the response (or lack thereof) comes back.

 

Correct. (thumbs u

 

There actually doesn't need to be 'afters'. The question has been asked, the question has been ignored, those to whom the answer is important have the information they need in the form of silence from the seller.

[G.A.tor]

doesn't it ultimately boil down to the buyer?

 

at hero's this year, I had 2 GL #7's... a former cgc 6.5 pressed to a 7.5 cr/ow pager, and an OO straight to cgc non pressed cgc 7.5 er with ow pages...

 

both were side by side in NC...both were priced at $750... a buyer came up, I showed him both books, pointing out the pressed copy vs the unpressed, even citing the former cgc grade of 6.5 and the fact that the pages were of a lower designated quality...

 

he chose the pressed 7.5 lower pq over the unpressed 7.5 higher pq because that was his preference... he liked the look of the pressed book better...

 

I have sold pressed books on clink (stating in the description "book has been pressed") and gotten full asking price... I have sold pressed books at cons, trying to always disclose when I knew...and I have never had anyone, that was looking for that particular copy, really care, and some didn't even know what "pressed" was, when I explained it to them...

 

just throwing out some random thoughts

[Bosco685]

doesn't it ultimately boil down to the buyer?

It does!

 

And I am okay with a book being pressed as long as it is handled professionally so there is no long-term damage to its condition.

 

I've even bought books from sellers on here that I am very aware they press. They are not always stating it, but I know if I sent a PM and asked, they'd be upfront about it and tell me. It just wasn't necessary because it is known and I had heard about it from more than a few sources.

 

My only concern is with amateur pressing, and the potential damange this can cause. For all I know, there are books I own now that may be impacted due to non-disclosure.

[joeypost]

doesn't it ultimately boil down to the buyer?

It does!

 

And I am okay with a book being pressed as long as it is handled professionally so there is no long-term damage to its condition.

 

I've even bought books from sellers on here that I am very aware they press. They are not always stating it, but I know if I sent a PM and asked, they'd be upfront about it and tell me. It just wasn't necessary because it is known and I had heard about it from more than a few sources.

 

My only concern is with amateur pressing, and the potential damange this can cause. For all I know, there are books I own now that may be impacted due to non-disclosure.

 

Amateur pressing is a whole other discussion. A properly pressed book should show no signs of waffling, flyaway pages or razor sharp spines. Lets stay focused on the real issue...disclosure.

[Pirate]

doesn't it ultimately boil down to the buyer?

It does!

 

And I am okay with a book being pressed as long as it is handled professionally so there is no long-term damage to its condition.

 

I've even bought books from sellers on here that I am very aware they press. They are not always stating it, but I know if I sent a PM and asked, they'd be upfront about it and tell me. It just wasn't necessary because it is known and I had heard about it from more than a few sources.

 

My only concern is with amateur pressing, and the potential damange this can cause. For all I know, there are books I own now that may be impacted due to non-disclosure.

 

what do you consider a professional presser? A licensed paper conservator? How do you know they pressed your books correctly? Are you going to wait 50 years to see if the job was done right?

 

Not jumping on you bosco, but in theory how can this line of thinking be practical. No body really knows the long term effects of pressing. This could all be hogwash for all we know.

[Bosco685]

Lets stay focused on the real issue...disclosure.

Good point!

[G.A.tor]

doesn't it ultimately boil down to the buyer?

It does!

 

And I am okay with a book being pressed as long as it is handled professionally so there is no long-term damage to its condition.

 

I've even bought books from sellers on here that I am very aware they press. They are not always stating it, but I know if I sent a PM and asked, they'd be upfront about it and tell me. It just wasn't necessary because it is known and I had heard about it from more than a few sources.

 

My only concern is with amateur pressing, and the potential damange this can cause. For all I know, there are books I own now that may be impacted due to non-disclosure.

 

Amateur pressing is a whole other discussion. A properly pressed book should show no signs of waffling, flyaway pages or razor sharp spines. Lets stay focused on the real issue...disclosure.

from what I can tell, books pressed even 20+ years ago, have not "reverted" or had long term affects...and as Joey said, amateur or "poorly" pressed books are pretty visually obvious (waffle effect, etc)...

 

and I am all for disclosure...the more info the better...I just think it is a choice a seller makes, and not one that can be forced, or even completely monitored, as much as it would be the right thing

[Bosco685]

Wait - my bad. Isn't part of the disclosure piece who did the pressing?

 

I would think so as someone just stated their book is pressed is one thing. If that statement is followed with "...by (insert professional pressing service name here)" brings an even greater comfort to the potential buyer.

 

Just wondering.

[Bosco685]

from what I can tell, books pressed even 20+ years ago, have not "reverted" or had long term affects...and as Joey said, amateur or "poorly" pressed books are pretty visually obvious (waffle effect, etc)...

That is good to know. Due to my inexperience, I just assumed if someone pressed a book and didn't take into consideration the long-term impact you can start to see some form of degradation of the paper.

 

Sorry.

[G.A.tor]

from what I can tell, books pressed even 20+ years ago, have not "reverted" or had long term affects...and as Joey said, amateur or "poorly" pressed books are pretty visually obvious (waffle effect, etc)...

That is good to know. Due to my inexperience, I just assumed if someone pressed a book and didn't take into consideration the long-term impact you can start to see some form of degradation of the paper.

 

Sorry.

paper is just a combination of cellulose strands... the length of those strands is what gives paper its "strength"... pressing has been shown to alter the position of the cellulose strands, but if done properly, does not damage them (this according to a Boston university research on paper and fiber aging, etc...google it)... exposure to light, heat, etc, is what causes the damage over time, in combination with the quality of the initial product (again, the length/strength of the strands)...

 

again, just info I have discovered in my travels

[skypinkblu]

I have always believed in disclosure, but personally, I never wanted a written rule. I really don't know if I can always tell if something has been done,and I was concerned that I'd mess up and I'd miss something.

 

I am one of those people who worries about that stuff. I am NOT worried about getting a lower price by disclosing, if the price is lower because of work, well, that is the CORRECT price in the market.

 

As far as personal freedoms go...well, I believe most people are good, but money does sway quite a few. Will EVERYONE disclose if there is a rule...probably not...but they will be the same people who park in a handicapped spot without a sticker, because they are "above" everyone else.

 

Personal freedoms are wonderful, and when it was small, it probably worked better here...but this marketplace has grown. Anyone who thinks it's safer here than eBay has not bought a lot of stuff.

 

Something suggesting that information you are Aware of, should be disclosed is fine with me.

 

[DiceX]

Where's the poll that asks if disclosure should be mandatory in the marketplace?

I missed it.

 

 

[skypinkblu]

paper is just a combination of cellulose strands... the length of those strands is what gives paper its "strength"... pressing has been shown to alter the position of the cellulose strands, but if done properly, does not damage them (this according to a Boston university research on paper and fiber aging, etc...google it)... exposure to light, heat, etc, is what causes the damage over time, in combination with the quality of the initial product (again, the length/strength of the strands)...

 

again, just info I have discovered in my travels

 

Actually, we have a Chemistry professor here, on the boards, who was looking into this matter and he was not so sure that it had no effect.

 

I can show you a very expensive book that was pressed by a professional and I just found out that too much heat was used, which crinkled the paper. I'm hoping to have Joey fix it.

[skypinkblu]

Where's the poll that asks if disclosure should be mandatory in the marketplace?

I missed it.

 

 

Start a thread, I'm shy;)

 

(or at least fairly quiet; and not great at writing polls)