HULK 181 CGC 9.9? 1 1

[jkrk]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

 

From the increasing pool of 9.8's. (thumbs u

 

We discussed this just a couple of pages back. Pressing a book into a 9.9 simply isn't possible all that often as the issues that separate a book from the 9.9 grade aren't the kind of issues that can be pressed out.

 

Don't confuse me with facts. I still like my odds.

Edited December 28, 2010 by jkrk

[ciorac]

what IS any difference between a 9.8 and 9.9???

 

 

About a 1/32" non-color breaking spine stress. A very strong 9.8 can have one. A 9.9 cannot.

 

Easy, cheesy.

 

Next question.

 

But I guess it can have a blunted upper right corner with associated color loss? I've only seen the scan that is on the site, but that is what I observed.

[RockMyAmadeus]

what IS any difference between a 9.8 and 9.9???

 

 

About a 1/32" non-color breaking spine stress. A very strong 9.8 can have one. A 9.9 cannot.

 

Easy, cheesy.

 

Next question.

 

But I guess it can have a blunted upper right corner with associated color loss? I've only seen the scan that is on the site, but that is what I observed.

 

Well, no, that criteria is for non-slab damaged books.

[500Club]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

 

From the increasing pool of 9.8's. (thumbs u

 

OK. How?

 

These things aren't wine. They don't improve with age.

 

What's going to turn these 9.8s into 9.9s? Pressing won't.

 

On top of that, I don't know of anyone resubbing 9.8s in hopes of a grade bump.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On top of that, I don't know of anyone resubbing 9.8s in hopes of a grade bump.

 

[500Club]

On top of that, I don't know of anyone resubbing 9.8s in hopes of a grade bump.

 

Really?

 

Surely not pre-1990 newsprint, flimsy stock books?

[tth2]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

I would say that the odds that at least one other 9.9 Hulk 181 will appear at some point are much higher than the odds that there will never be another 9.9 or 10.0 Hulk 181. At least I know which bet I would take.

 

Unless, of course, the powers that be at CGC decide that they will never award a 9.9 or 10.0 to a Hulk 181.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On top of that, I don't know of anyone resubbing 9.8s in hopes of a grade bump.

 

Really?

 

Surely not pre-1990 newsprint, flimsy stock books?

 

 

Hey, you know me. If I think something's got a strong shot at a 9.9, it's not without reallllllly good reason.

 

As someone who has had several books fail a 9.8 pre-screen, only to be subsequently graded 9.8 on a second go-round, I can tell you for sure that "cusp" books can go either way.

 

I currently have two books sitting in 9.8 slabs that are legit 9.9 copies, and which will be cracked and re-subbed at a time when I feel the grading is most in my favor (keeping in mind that this is two our of several hundred 9.8s)

 

Caveat #1: I would never do this with an already slabbed book, because there may be flaws which prevent it from being higher than a 9.8 that are not visible outside the slab. This only works when I had the chance to sub it myself and physically inspect it. Otherwise, it's just, at best, a waste of another slab fee.

 

Caveat #2: I only do this with relatively low value (in 9.8) books and books that I know have at least an outside shot at a 9.9. For example...my Primer #5 9.8 and Strangers in Paradise #1 9.8 will never see the outside of those cases while I own them. 9.8s they are (and the SIP had the benefit of being reviewed TWICE), but they are legitimately 9.75s. Better than a 9.7, but not quite 9.8 enough to absolutely remain 9.8 on resubmittal (and pressing will help neither.)

[supapimp]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

I would say that the odds that at least one other 9.9 Hulk 181 will appear at some point are much higher than the odds that there will never be another 9.9 or 10.0 Hulk 181. At least I know which bet I would take.

 

 

of course you can make this comment, the odds are in your favor, there are still thousands of ungraded hulk 181's.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Unless, of course, the powers that be at CGC decide that they will never award a 9.9 or 10.0 to a Hulk 181.

 

And this is entirely possible...SB is already on record as stating that a particular "highest grade" isn't necessarily given based on that book's individual merit, but rather "is this book the best preserved example we're likely to ever see?"

 

Everyone here can think of 9.6 GA examples. 9.8 Early SA, and 9.9 Late SA books that wouldn't hold up to other, later books in those grades.

 

Does that philosophy still exist...?

 

What say you, Mr. Litch...?

[tth2]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

I would say that the odds that at least one other 9.9 Hulk 181 will appear at some point are much higher than the odds that there will never be another 9.9 or 10.0 Hulk 181. At least I know which bet I would take.

 

 

of course you can make this comment, the odds are in your favor, there are still thousands of ungraded hulk 181's.

Well, various posters in this thread that I respect, including Bob, seemed to be saying they didn`t see another 9.9 copy coming along anytime soon.

 

My point was that anyone who`s willing to pay any sort of $80K price for this 9.9 copy is essentially betting that another one will never appear, and that`s not a bet that I would ever take personally.

[supapimp]

 

of course you can make this comment, the odds are in your favor, there are still thousands of ungraded hulk 181's.

Well, various posters in this thread that I respect, including Bob, seemed to be saying they didn`t see another 9.9 copy coming along anytime soon.

 

My point was that anyone who`s willing to pay any sort of $80K price for this 9.9 copy is essentially betting that another one will never appear, and that`s not a bet that I would ever take personally.

 

the HIGH asking prices for BA key books can be asked by what ever the seller lists, but to think that those are, and will be the best existing copies on the planet is ludicrous. like sborock posted on the boards, CGC has only cracked the tip of the iceberg when it comes to grading all the HG copies that are out there. many HG copies are stashed away in private collections and will never see the light of day, unless the collector passes or needs $$$. they're not all press and resubmit books. you're hatred of pressing has blinded you.

[namisgr]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

I would say that the odds that at least one other 9.9 Hulk 181 will appear at some point are much higher than the odds that there will never be another 9.9 or 10.0 Hulk 181. At least I know which bet I would take.

 

 

of course you can make this comment, the odds are in your favor, there are still thousands of ungraded hulk 181's.

Well, various posters in this thread that I respect, including Bob, seemed to be saying they didn`t see another 9.9 copy coming along anytime soon.

 

My point was that anyone who`s willing to pay any sort of $80K price for this 9.9 copy is essentially betting that another one will never appear, and that`s not a bet that I would ever take personally.

 

Actually, I responded to a post suggesting that 3-4 more would be surfacing in the next few years, hence my use of the term "handful". That seems unlikely in the extreme to me.

[Vtcomics]

what IS any difference between a 9.8 and 9.9???

 

 

About a 1/32" non-color breaking spine stress. A very strong 9.8 can have one. A 9.9 cannot.

 

Easy, cheesy.

 

Next question.

 

But I guess it can have a blunted upper right corner with associated color loss? I've only seen the scan that is on the site, but that is what I observed.

 

I was thinking the exact same thing. And until the seller addresses these issues......

[tth2]

many HG copies are stashed away in private collections and will never see the light of day, unless the collector passes or needs $$$. they're not all press and resubmit books. you're hatred of pressing has blinded you.

I`m fully aware of that. If you go back and read threads from 2004 and 2005, I actually made posts saying that not every ultra-HG book was a press job, particularly BA books, because anyone who had been collecting for a while would realize just how many pristine books were sitting untouched in collections.

 

However, the sheer volume of pressing over the past few years has caused me to change my tune, because it does seem like whatever COULD be worth pressing does end up getting pressed at some point. What makes me sad, and one reason I crusade against pressing, is that the pressed books have tainted everything else, since we don`t know which books are pressed and which are genuine and end up just tarring everything with the same brush.

[500Club]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

I would say that the odds that at least one other 9.9 Hulk 181 will appear at some point are much higher than the odds that there will never be another 9.9 or 10.0 Hulk 181. At least I know which bet I would take.

 

 

of course you can make this comment, the odds are in your favor, there are still thousands of ungraded hulk 181's.

Well, various posters in this thread that I respect, including Bob, seemed to be saying they didn`t see another 9.9 copy coming along anytime soon.

 

My point was that anyone who`s willing to pay any sort of $80K price for this 9.9 copy is essentially betting that another one will never appear, and that`s not a bet that I would ever take personally.

I agree with you, and, like Bob S, was responding to the idea that 'a few' more 9.9s would surface. I'd take the same bet you would. The biggest question is whether some of these shelf bought copies will surface, or whether the owners are lifers, like the 95 year old owner of the Savannah collection. As i said before, the low hanging fruit has been plucked.

[500Club]

On top of that, I don't know of anyone resubbing 9.8s in hopes of a grade bump.

 

Really?

 

Surely not pre-1990 newsprint, flimsy stock books?

 

 

Hey, you know me. If I think something's got a strong shot at a 9.9, it's not without reallllllly good reason.

 

As someone who has had several books fail a 9.8 pre-screen, only to be subsequently graded 9.8 on a second go-round, I can tell you for sure that "cusp" books can go either way.

 

I currently have two books sitting in 9.8 slabs that are legit 9.9 copies, and which will be cracked and re-subbed at a time when I feel the grading is most in my favor (keeping in mind that this is two our of several hundred 9.8s)

 

There aren't many people who could reasonably resub a 9.8 hoping for a 9.9. You'd be one. Still, on the size of the cajones required to resub a 9.8...

 

Caveat #1: I would never do this with an already slabbed book, because there may be flaws which prevent it from being higher than a 9.8 that are not visible outside the slab. This only works when I had the chance to sub it myself and physically inspect it. Otherwise, it's just, at best, a waste of another slab fee.

 

With you there. It'd be very easy to miss a subtle surface scuff through a slab.

 

Caveat #2: I only do this with relatively low value (in 9.8) books and books that I know have at least an outside shot at a 9.9. For example...my Primer #5 9.8 and Strangers in Paradise #1 9.8 will never see the outside of those cases while I own them. 9.8s they are (and the SIP had the benefit of being reviewed TWICE), but they are legitimately 9.75s. Better than a 9.7, but not quite 9.8 enough to absolutely remain 9.8 on resubmittal (and pressing will help neither.)

Yeah, and this is the rub with a book like Hulk 181. Who is resubbing a 9.8 hoping for a 9.9, realistically? The chance of a 9.6 regrade probably outweighs the lottery hope of a 9.9. And that's without considering the chance of untoward events, like namisgr's OO ASM 121 that suddenly developed a paper clip impression.

[RockMyAmadeus]

, like namisgr's OO ASM 121 that suddenly developed a paper clip impression.

 

Is that like suddenly getting pregnant..?

 

What a mess that was.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

many HG copies are stashed away in private collections and will never see the light of day, unless the collector passes or needs $$$. they're not all press and resubmit books. you're hatred of pressing has blinded you.

I`m fully aware of that. If you go back and read threads from 2004 and 2005, I actually made posts saying that not every ultra-HG book was a press job, particularly BA books, because anyone who had been collecting for a while would realize just how many pristine books were sitting untouched in collections.

 

However, the sheer volume of pressing over the past few years has caused me to change my tune, because it does seem like whatever COULD be worth pressing does end up getting pressed at some point. What makes me sad, and one reason I crusade against pressing, is that the pressed books have tainted everything else, since we don`t know which books are pressed and which are genuine and end up just tarring everything with the same brush.

I emjoy reading your posts, but I believe you have become paranoid about presed books. I press books here and there, and usually end up sellig them for whatever reason. But ever since CGC changed the BA/MA tier dates I would think there are less BA books being pressed, since profit on many "average" books are barely worth slabbing alone, so adding extra shipping and another 10-15 bucks doesnt make sense from a business standpoint. And I am sure there are plenty of 9.8s to be had out there, this book is from the age of bags and boards and collectors. There will likely be another 9.9, IDK if pressing will help it though.

 

Like I said, I like your posts. But I think you have become paranoid about rampant pressing.

[seanfingh]

many HG copies are stashed away in private collections and will never see the light of day, unless the collector passes or needs $$$. they're not all press and resubmit books. you're hatred of pressing has blinded you.

I`m fully aware of that. If you go back and read threads from 2004 and 2005, I actually made posts saying that not every ultra-HG book was a press job, particularly BA books, because anyone who had been collecting for a while would realize just how many pristine books were sitting untouched in collections.

 

However, the sheer volume of pressing over the past few years has caused me to change my tune, because it does seem like whatever COULD be worth pressing does end up getting pressed at some point. What makes me sad, and one reason I crusade against pressing, is that the pressed books have tainted everything else, since we don`t know which books are pressed and which are genuine and end up just tarring everything with the same brush.

I emjoy reading your posts, but I believe you have become paranoid about presed books. I press books here and there, and usually end up sellig them for whatever reason. But ever since CGC changed the BA/MA tier dates I would think there are less BA books being pressed, since profit on many "average" books are barely worth slabbing alone, so adding extra shipping and another 10-15 bucks doesnt make sense from a business standpoint. And I am sure there are plenty of 9.8s to be had out there, this book is from the age of bags and boards and collectors. There will likely be another 9.9, IDK if pressing will help it though.

 

Like I said, I like your posts. But I think you have become paranoid about rampant pressing.

 

I am not anti-pressing, at all. But I would be willing to bet that more books have been pressed in the last 24 months than were pressed from the delivery of the first copy of Obadiah Oldbuck forward. I mean how many people opened their own business pressing books in the last 24 months. Before that who was doing it for others other than Matt?

 

Oh mess. Did this just become a pressing thread? Screw you, Hui!