HULK 181 CGC 9.9? 1 1

[Beau]

I'd be happy to point them out to anyone in person should they so request it.

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

You should start a "How many 9.9 and 10.0 books have you subbed" thread.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[ The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen.

 

 

Press-to Minto!

[RockMyAmadeus]

You should start a "How many 9.9 and 10.0 books have you subbed" thread.

 

6.

 

Darth has subbed like 30 or so by now.

 

How many have you subbed, sonny...?

[RockMyAmadeus]

You should start a "How many 9.9 and 10.0 books have you subbed" thread.

 

6.

 

Darth has subbed like 30 or so by now.

 

How many have you subbed, sonny...?

 

You know the sad thing...?

 

The TOTW 1/2 chromiums that I got, I got directly from Wizard, directly from the printer....so there's *probably* 5-10 more 10s in that batch of about 30 I got.

 

I kid you not.

 

The other funny thing is...there's some film on most of them that needs to be wiped off before subbing. Do you know how hard it is to wipe chromium without scratching the plastic...?

 

[seanfingh]

 

3. A 10.0 Batman the Cult #1 from my 1st modern submission evah. Pulled from a 50 cent box during a "make your own longbox for $50" sale at the LCS. And two CPG #1s at 9.9 that i got directly from the creator himself, so there wasn't a lot of shipping around the world. They probably should have an asterisk.

[Boozad]

One 9.9.

[RockMyAmadeus]

3. A 10.0 Batman the Cult #1 from my 1st modern submission evah. Pulled from a 50 cent box during a "make your own longbox for $50" sale at the LCS. And two CPG #1s at 9.9 that i got directly from the creator himself, so there wasn't a lot of shipping around the world. They probably should have an asterisk.

 

Woohoo!

 

I've always said....

 

No one finds 9.9s and 10s....they find YOU.

 

I had a nice chat with Jeremy at SD this last year...very nice guy, and made some wonderful sketches on a current print CPG that I got for a friend. He signed n' sketched 'em fo' free. Cuz he's blizzomb like dat.

[jkrk]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years. Is the current 9.9 considered by most to be a 9.9?

 

I am a numbers person not a comic expert. I see the numbers of 9.8's growing and too little reason why one or two won't move up to the vaulted class? Will there be a debate on the merit of calling the newly crowned books a 9.9? Absolutely.

 

I would argue that the debate is a political decision and not about the merits of a comics grade.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2010 by jkrk

[RockMyAmadeus]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years. Is the current 9.9 considered by most to be a 9.9?

 

I am a numbers person not a comic expert. I see the numbers of 9.8's growing and too little reason why one or two won't move up to the vaulted class? Will there be a debate on the merit of calling the newly crowned books a 9.9? Absolutely.

 

I would argue that the debate is a political decision and not about the merits of a comics grade.

 

 

There are probably several hundred to a couple thousand (low 4 digits) books sitting in 9.8 slabs that are markedly superior to *most* 9.8s, and should be in 9.9 cases.

 

When you just look at the numbers...

 

http://www.gregholland.com/CGC/stats.asp

 

...the numbers of 9.9s and 10s relative to 9.8s is ridiculously out of whack. You've got 1 9.9 for every 62.6 9.8s? That should make it obvious to anyone that those numbers are frightfully out of perspective. However...the ratio of 10s to 9.9s, on the other hand, is a very reasonable 1 to 4.

 

CGC has jealously guarded the 9.9 and 10 grades, and rightfully so...but in that vigilance, they've created a verrrrry wide "9.8 gate", and you end up with 9.8s that are noticeably superior to other 9.8s, which rightfully should be 9.9s (and the corollary that there are 9.8s that should be in 9.6 cases. Granted.)

 

But until and if CGC gets competition, that won't change. Yay for those selling 9.9s and 10s...sad for those who want them.

[500Club]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

 

From my printing press out back......

 

Shhhhhhhh......

[bluechip]

So, you are saying buy the book, and not the label?

 

I don't have a problem with any person buying a label. And it's clear that some collectors do. I've heard more than a few say "I collect 9.8s" or "I collect 9.6s and above." Sometimes it's followed with "I collect 9.8 (fill in the blank)s" but it's clear that it starts with the label.

 

That's all fine. Though, people who do so should be aware they are collecting labels and not books. Or, at the least, labels first and books (possibly) second.

 

I am surprised, however, that people who do focus so greatly on the label #s don't make a greater case for improving the case, or the slab. The more you feel a business should be focused on infinitessimal differences between one book and another, then it seems to me that the more you want the slab itself to present zero or near-zero danger of altering the book that's encased in it. When I see supposedly minty books floating freely in slabs or even bowing in the middle, I get a bit frustrated by it myself, and I generally regard the top several tier grades as interchangeable. I can only imagine how frustrated it would make me if I were someone who obsessed over infininitessimal differences to the point of feeling a 9.9 was worth a dozen times a 9.8, or a thousand times as much as a 9.4.

 

.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Borock has come on in the past and repeatedly stated that if someone can build a better slab, CGC would gladly use that idea.

[seanfingh]

So, you are saying buy the book, and not the label?

 

I don't have a problem with any person buying a label. And it's clear that some collectors do. I've heard more than a few say "I collect 9.8s" or "I collect 9.6s and above." Sometimes it's followed with "I collect 9.8 (fill in the blank)s" but it's clear that it starts with the label.

 

That's all fine. Though, people who do so should be aware they are collecting labels and not books. Or, at the least, labels first and books (possibly) second.

 

I am surprised, however, that people who do focus so greatly on the label #s don't make a greater case for improving the case, or the slab. The more you feel a business should be focused on infinitessimal differences between one book and another, then it seems to me that the more you want the slab itself to present zero or near-zero danger of altering the book that's encased in it. When I see supposedly minty books floating freely in slabs or even bowing in the middle, I get a bit frustrated by it myself, and I generally regard the top several tier grades as interchangeable. I can only imagine how frustrated it would make me if I were someone who obsessed over infininitessimal differences to the point of feeling a 9.9 was worth a dozen times a 9.8, or a thousand times as much as a 9.4.

 

.

 

 

So, you're saying buy the label, not the book?

[jkrk]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

 

From the increasing pool of 9.8's. (thumbs u

 

I know very little about comics. I didn't know that the only way to push a grade is to press the book. I thought that it's possible for CGC to reconsider their grade at a future time?

 

The great aspect to the discussion is that your thesis or my intuition will be proven to be right. Time will tell.

Edited December 28, 2010 by jkrk

[Mephisto]

Borock has come on in the past and repeatedly stated that if someone can build a better slab, CGC would gladly use that idea.

 

Would like to know if he remembers grading this one.

[worldsbestcomics]

I will step out and weigh in from the point of view of a potential buyer. I collect mint books, I collect Wolverine and I collect bronze books.

 

This was at one time a book that I was actually interested in purchasing. I spoke with a couple people who saw the book in hand at SD and had enough concerns about whether it had suffered SCS or was "truly mint" that I balked at the 60K price which was roughly 3x9.8 at the time.

 

Valuing mint books is impossible for most collectors because they don't have any real experience with the market. I do. And I can tell you that without the concerns over possible SCS, this book would have sold for $60K in 2001-03 and I believe it would now sell for over $100K. If a mint copy of the copper age first appearance of Deadpool sells for over $10K, then a mint copy of the bronze-age first appearance of Wolverine is legitimately a $100K+ book.

 

Couple of issues....

 

New Mutants #98 in 9.9 is no longer a $10K+ book, and there are doubts as to whether it really was at the time it sold.

 

The subsequent Sig Series 9.9 sold for a little more than half that amount, a little more than a year later (the funny "point" can be made that that's because it was signed by Rob Liefeld, but to the people who will shell out $6K or $12K for this book, it IS a premium.)

 

And, ultimately, this is merely a philosophical exercise because the reality is, NO genuine 9.9 copy exists in a slab at this moment in time, anyways.

 

The first mint book almost always outsells the second. I think the second NM 98 sold for less because supply had increased and demand hadn't as well as changing economics.

 

Agreed. (thumbs u

[bluechip]

Borock has come on in the past and repeatedly stated that if someone can build a better slab, CGC would gladly use that idea.

 

Books could be better protected without changing the way they make their slabs. I would rather have a book encased in a slab with a hard lucite backing and a wrapped in a mylite so its tight against the lucite and then put in a slab. Then it wouldn't bend or bow, and wouldn't slide into the edges of the inner well.

 

And it wouldn't require a whole redo of their manufacturing process.

 

That's just one way it could be done. I am sure there are other and better ways. But anything that better prevents bending and slipping would be an improvement and well worth an additional cost for the most expensive books

[rob_react]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisiting, we are going to have a handful eventually.

 

I am completely with you on the concept that we will see a handful of 9.9's within 5 years.

 

OK. How is this going to happen?

 

We've discussed pressing, and the fact that the micro defects that separate 9.9s from 9.8s are near universally not pressable.

 

CGC has been up and running 10 years. Hulk 181 is one of the most subbed books. One 9.9 has been graded. Dealers and collectors have subbed the low hanging fruit.

 

So where do you see these 9.9s coming from.

 

From the increasing pool of 9.8's. (thumbs u

 

We discussed this just a couple of pages back. Pressing a book into a 9.9 simply isn't possible all that often as the issues that separate a book from the 9.9 grade aren't the kind of issues that can be pressed out.