HULK 181 CGC 9.9? 1 1

[rob_react]

After reading this entire thread, i still cannot believe all this hype over a BA book. should we not be fighting over GA or SA book quality If some knucklehead wants to drop 100g's on that book - go for it. It would be more fortuitous for all of us in the long run; right??

 

I know, I've never even heard of this Wolverine guy. I didn't even know they MADE comic books after 1965. How DARE anyone be interested in something other than Silver Age and Golden Age books. There oughta be a law!

 

"Hey you crazy kids, get off my lawn!"

 

 

[rob_react]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

 

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

[otherworldsj33]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisitng, we are going to have a handful eventually.

[namisgr]

Respectfully disagree with the idea that there will be a handful of Hulk 181s in 9.9 shortly. Heck, even THIS Hulk 181 isn't a 9.9, as attested to by those in the thread who've actually seen the comic in person.

 

I had the near-perfect copy I bought off the rack pressed, and the best it was able to do with CGC was 9.6. Even a(nother) warehouse find of this comic is extremely unlikely to yield any copies genuinely deserving of a 9.9 grade.

[seanfingh]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

 

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

 

+ infinity to the part in green. What normally gets perfectly preserved books a 9.8 instead of a mint grade is almost never pressable. Tiny bindery tears, tiny flecks of white at a corner, tiny, nearly imperceptible spine tics on otherwise perfect books. I would love to hear anyone post a "press to 9.9" story, because I don't think one exists except for people that are pressing moderns.

[otherworldsj33]

Who knows, time will tell. Regardless, I can't see this book being worth near the ask price, not now, and maybe never, or not for a very, very long time.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The 9.9's are hard to come by, no doubt. But you can't deny that pressing is probably being applied to books in multiples of, something around 5-6 times more then it was done 8-9-10 years ago.

A 9.9 book will always be a freak of nature, as you said, but it only takes a handful to bring down the value of the one, and I just think, due to in no small part to the fact that there are scores of this book exisitng, we are going to have a handful eventually.

If you had said 9.6/9.8 I would have been with you. But a 9.8 will likely not press to a 9.9.. Ever. Pressing is obviously commonplace in the current state of the hobby, but is already correcting itself as well. Personally I think this is going to be a single freak book, maybe another one day but not tomorrow IMO.

[VintageComics]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

 

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

 

+ infinity to the part in green. What normally gets perfectly preserved books a 9.8 instead of a mint grade is almost never pressable. Tiny bindery tears, tiny flecks of white at a corner, tiny, nearly imperceptible spine tics on otherwise perfect books. I would love to hear anyone post a "press to 9.9" story, because I don't think one exists except for people that are pressing moderns.

 

+1, something as simple as a scratch in the gloss will keep a book from grading 9.9.

 

Completely different universe when compared to lower grades.

[500Club]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

+ infinity to the part in green. What normally gets perfectly preserved books a 9.8 instead of a mint grade is almost never pressable. Tiny bindery tears, tiny flecks of white at a corner, tiny, nearly imperceptible spine tics on otherwise perfect books. I would love to hear anyone post a "press to 9.9" story, because I don't think one exists except for people that are pressing moderns.

Agreed. Pressing has shifted populations of 9.4s to 9.6s and some 9.6s to 9.8s. Populations of 9.9s have not increased during the pressing era.

[Calamerica]

what IS any difference between a 9.8 and 9.9???

 

once you ge tthe answer to THIS Q you will have all the info you need about grading.

 

CAL tried the 10.0 game for a while...

[500Club]

Who knows, time will tell. Regardless, I can't see this book being worth near the ask price, not now, and maybe never, or not for a very, very long time.

 

Time has already told. I'd suspect Hulk 181 is one of the most commonly pressed books for upgrade, as evidenced by the expansion of the 9.8 census population over the last 3-5 years. No new 9.9s have surfaced.

[seanfingh]

Who knows, time will tell. Regardless, I can't see this book being worth near the ask price, not now, and maybe never, or not for a very, very long time.

 

Time has already told. I'd suspect Hulk 181 is one of the most commonly pressed books for upgrade, as evidenced by the expansion of the 9.8 census population over the last 3-5 years. No new 9.9s have surfaced.

 

That's a bingo.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Who knows, time will tell. Regardless, I can't see this book being worth near the ask price, not now, and maybe never, or not for a very, very long time.

 

Time has already told. I'd suspect Hulk 181 is one of the most commonly pressed books for upgrade, as evidenced by the expansion of the 9.8 census population over the last 3-5 years. No new 9.9s have surfaced.

 

That's a bingo.

Yep.

[NewEnglandGothic]

CAL tried the 10.0 game for a while...

Try harder.

[bluechip]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

 

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

 

+ infinity to the part in green. What normally gets perfectly preserved books a 9.8 instead of a mint grade is almost never pressable. Tiny bindery tears, tiny flecks of white at a corner, tiny, nearly imperceptible spine tics on otherwise perfect books. I would love to hear anyone post a "press to 9.9" story, because I don't think one exists except for people that are pressing moderns.

 

The questions about pressing gloss over what seem to me to be somewhat bigger questions. One being that if a book is really as common in all grades as it would be if it were printed today, then how much can any copy be worth? And if 9.8s and 9.9s are subjective and virtually indistinguishable from one another (at least in terms of non-microscopic presentability), then the value depends on how much value buyers place, and will continue to place, on a difference that cannot really be seen. And, perhaps more importantly (given the slabbing process itself and "shaken comic syndrome") on whether that infinitessimal difference continues to exist forever except on the label itself.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

So, you are saying buy the book, and not the label?

[RockMyAmadeus]

I will step out and weigh in from the point of view of a potential buyer. I collect mint books, I collect Wolverine and I collect bronze books.

 

This was at one time a book that I was actually interested in purchasing. I spoke with a couple people who saw the book in hand at SD and had enough concerns about whether it had suffered SCS or was "truly mint" that I balked at the 60K price which was roughly 3x9.8 at the time.

 

Valuing mint books is impossible for most collectors because they don't have any real experience with the market. I do. And I can tell you that without the concerns over possible SCS, this book would have sold for $60K in 2001-03 and I believe it would now sell for over $100K. If a mint copy of the copper age first appearance of Deadpool sells for over $10K, then a mint copy of the bronze-age first appearance of Wolverine is legitimately a $100K+ book.

 

Couple of issues, and you know I think you're la bomba, but....

 

New Mutants #98 in 9.9 is no longer a $10K+ book, and there are doubts as to whether it really was at the time it sold.

 

The subsequent Sig Series 9.9 sold for a little more than half that amount, a little more than a year later (the funny "point" can be made that that's because it was signed by Rob Liefeld, but to the people who will shell out $6K or $12K for this book, it IS a premium.)

 

Same with GL #76. Mid-2009, the only (at the time) 9.6 sells for $30K, then 5 more and the 9.8 shows up, and only manages a 22% gain in price over the 9.6, while a 9.6 sells for less than half its high.

 

Yes, granted, 9.8s are not 9.9s, and moreover, sole 9.9s. That point cannot be overstated. But then, Hulk #181 isn't GL #76.

 

Prices have plummeted for nearly everything across the board in Bronze the last year and a half, but this one book is immune? Even considering what it is? Probably not.

 

Had there not been any SCS concerns...had this book been offered for sale in, say, mid-2008, I have no doubt that it would have been a $100K+ book.

 

Those conditions simply do not exist any more. The owners waited too long.

 

And, ultimately, this is merely a philosophical exercise because the reality is, NO genuine 9.9 copy exists in a slab at this moment in time, anyways.

[jkrk]

A bid of 80K is on the table. Unknown whether real or shill.

 

If the book was mine the bid would be above $100K by now.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's just that pressing was not nearly as prevelant 9 years ago as it is today, thats why I think there will be more 9.9 copies. It seems like every third BA key or semi key 9.0/9.2 and up has been subject to a press job the last few years.

As far as this sale having virtually nothing to do current or near-term future of the market, if it's not real time sales that drive the market, what does? We have seen it over and over again, to name a few recent examples: Action #1, Detective #27, GL #76, etc.

 

But pressing isn't "new" starting today. It's been going on for a while. You don't think people have been looking at Hulk 181s for the past few years? The reality is, pressing a book into a 9.9 isn't like just turning the press to "11" and watching the magic happen. Books that can grade out at 9.9/10 are FREAKS of preservation, to find a book with a slight, pressable flaw that could turn into a 9.9 is probably just as rare as finding a true 9.9, just because it's got to be an uncanny combination of issues.

 

+ infinity to the part in green. What normally gets perfectly preserved books a 9.8 instead of a mint grade is almost never pressable. Tiny bindery tears, tiny flecks of white at a corner, tiny, nearly imperceptible spine tics on otherwise perfect books. I would love to hear anyone post a "press to 9.9" story, because I don't think one exists except for people that are pressing moderns.

 

The questions about pressing gloss over what seem to me to be somewhat bigger questions. One being that if a book is really as common in all grades as it would be if it were printed today, then how much can any copy be worth? And if 9.8s and 9.9s are subjective and virtually indistinguishable from one another (at least in terms of non-microscopic presentability), then the value depends on how much value buyers place, and will continue to place, on a difference that cannot really be seen. And, perhaps more importantly (given the slabbing process itself and "shaken comic syndrome") on whether that infinitessimal difference continues to exist forever except on the label itself.

 

 

There are real, observable, albeit extremely subtle, differences between 9.8s, 9.9s, and 10s. Anyone who says they don't exist is ignorant or lying.

 

But.

 

For the vast majority of people,these flaws are meaningless because they require a certain type of focus that, frankly, most people don't have. And that's fine. For them, a 9.8 becomes the functionally highest grade they can, or should, care about, and that's perfectly fine for most people.

 

But, again, that dosn't mean there isn't a difference. There is. And I'd be happy to point them out to anyone in person should they so request it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

what IS any difference between a 9.8 and 9.9???

 

 

About a 1/32" non-color breaking spine stress. A very strong 9.8 can have one. A 9.9 cannot.

 

Easy, cheesy.

 

Next question.