Page Quality on CGC Books

[Bomber-Bob]

Page quality is as mercurial as the weather. CGC's designation is of little significance in the WHITE to CREAM to OFF-WHITE range.

 

My point entirely.

 

I can understand people aiming to get PQ in the White range, or wanting to avoid Tan pages, etc.

 

However, to be prepared to pay premiums, or ask for discounts, or avoid books entirely, based on something that is in complete flux...

 

+1

 

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

[oakman29]

Unless the page quality is brittle to tan,the PQ obsession is ridiculous.Cream/OW,OW/W to white does'nt and should'nt render any change in pricing of a book.Most times you cant even tell the difference.

[Foolkiller]

Books do change two page quality units on resubmission a surprising number of times.

 

Perhaps the best known example is the famous FF #1 that went from a 9.4 ow to a 9.6 white.

 

Im not disputing that, of course it does just like grades. My dispute is acting like PQ is irrelevant since a white pages could "very well" become c/ow on a resub. That isn't accurate.

 

Yes, I agree that PQ is more likely to change than grades and more likely to have a greater change but whites aren't changing to cows and vice versa every day. That's a once ina blue moon change if it's ever even happened.

 

I guess my point -- as I said above -- is your assumption the original designation given was 100% accurate. They're not scrutinizing it that closely. In fact, it was so meaningless to Borock, that he didn't want PQ designation on the label at all (which I'd disagree with) but that should give you an idea of how much emphasis and effort they put on it.

 

When did i ever say or even imply that PQ was "100% accurate"

 

I've admitted from the 1st it can change just like grades and even more so. Just not nearly as drastically or as often as some are implying. To say that white pages is meaningless because it could "very well" be a cow on a resub is accurate? Are you agreeing with that Foolkiller?

 

What I'm saying is that individual underlying designations are meaningless because the people grading your books don't put a lot of emphasis on that. I'm sure they're "generally" correct. But my conversations with CGC folks have led me away from putting a lot of emphasis on pq (except for resale) at all. Because basically, it doesn't mean much.

[comicparadox]

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

 

Does this mean a return to the supposedly tighter PQ designations of the old label slabs? It's been stated many times on the boards that the old label page quality designations are "usually" tighter than the new label ones...Though I have never done so, there are examples of c/ow old label resubs that come back with much "better" (i.e ow/w or w) PQ.

[Foolkiller]

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

 

Does this mean a return to the supposedly tighter PQ designations of the old label slabs? It's been stated many times on the boards that the old label page quality designations are "usually" tighter than the new label ones...Though I have never done so, there are examples of c/ow old label resubs that come back with much "better" (i.e ow/w or w) PQ.

 

No, that's generally true. As Borock has stated before, they went through a phase where they were absolutely nuts and hammered page quality on books.

[Bomber-Bob]

Unless the page quality is brittle to tan,the PQ obsession is ridiculous.Cream/OW,OW/W to white does'nt and should'nt render any change in pricing of a book.Most times you cant even tell the difference.

 

Sounds like someone talking that owns a lot of CR/OW books.

Look, you can go ahead and chase the grade, I'll chase the PQ. In all honesty we are probably both crazy.

[oakman29]

Page quality is as mercurial as the weather. CGC's designation is of little significance in the WHITE to CREAM to OFF-WHITE range.

 

My point entirely.

 

I can understand people aiming to get PQ in the White range, or wanting to avoid Tan pages, etc.

 

However, to be prepared to pay premiums, or ask for discounts, or avoid books entirely, based on something that is in complete flux...

 

+1

 

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

Are you serious cr/ow vs. ow/w I would bet that you cant differentiate between the two had they been raw.

[Bomber-Bob]

I guess my feeling is this, if you've been trying to buy books based on pq then basically you're fooling yourself, since it's a lot of guess work and is quite arbitrary. Both Haspel and Borock have both told me how ridiculous they think it is that people chase page quality.

 

In addition, if you're trying to get a book at a discount with ow/w pages instead of white, you're crazy. cr/ow v. white, that I buy. But on say, 50s DCs, cr/ow is the norm and perfectly acceptable.

 

From my submissions I have gotten the feeling that Hapsel does appreciate PQ.

I have called for notes and have been told that the interior browning was hammered

in the grade. CGC has tightened up on PQ and has taken PQ into account for the grade. I think this is a good thing !

[mt1000]

Page quality is as mercurial as the weather. CGC's designation is of little significance in the WHITE to CREAM to OFF-WHITE range.

 

My point entirely.

 

I can understand people aiming to get PQ in the White range, or wanting to avoid Tan pages, etc.

 

However, to be prepared to pay premiums, or ask for discounts, or avoid books entirely, based on something that is in complete flux...

 

+1

 

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

Are you serious cr/ow vs. ow/w I would bet that you cant differentiate between the two had they been raw.

 

I 100% agree i buy the book not the label anyway and i def dont care to much about PQ. Almost no one would be able to tell the diffrence in the two ive seen them they look very similar to me

[Foolkiller]

I guess my feeling is this, if you've been trying to buy books based on pq then basically you're fooling yourself, since it's a lot of guess work and is quite arbitrary. Both Haspel and Borock have both told me how ridiculous they think it is that people chase page quality.

 

In addition, if you're trying to get a book at a discount with ow/w pages instead of white, you're crazy. cr/ow v. white, that I buy. But on say, 50s DCs, cr/ow is the norm and perfectly acceptable.

 

From my submissions I have gotten the feeling that Hapsel does appreciate PQ.

I have called for notes and have been told that the interior browning was hammered

in the grade. CGC has tightened up on PQ and has taken PQ into account for the grade. I think this is a good thing !

 

I can only go by what he's told me directly on multiple occasions. Not that it's not factored in at all, but just that he feels way too much emphasis is put on it.

[Bomber-Bob]

Page quality is as mercurial as the weather. CGC's designation is of little significance in the WHITE to CREAM to OFF-WHITE range.

 

My point entirely.

 

I can understand people aiming to get PQ in the White range, or wanting to avoid Tan pages, etc.

 

However, to be prepared to pay premiums, or ask for discounts, or avoid books entirely, based on something that is in complete flux...

 

+1

 

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

Are you serious cr/ow vs. ow/w I would bet that you cant differentiate between the two had they been raw.

 

I 100% agree i buy the book not the label anyway and i def dont care to much about PQ. Almost no one would be able to tell the diffrence in the two ive seen them they look very similar to me

 

' Almost no one would be able to tell the diffrence in the two ive seen them they look very similar to me'

Dude, seriously, I can't ascertain what you are talking about. Take a moment and read what you've written before you submit. You will come across much better.

 

 

[mt1000]

Page quality is as mercurial as the weather. CGC's designation is of little significance in the WHITE to CREAM to OFF-WHITE range.

 

My point entirely.

 

I can understand people aiming to get PQ in the White range, or wanting to avoid Tan pages, etc.

 

However, to be prepared to pay premiums, or ask for discounts, or avoid books entirely, based on something that is in complete flux...

 

+1

 

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

Are you serious cr/ow vs. ow/w I would bet that you cant differentiate between the two had they been raw.

 

I 100% agree i buy the book not the label anyway and i def dont care to much about PQ. Almost no one would be able to tell the diffrence in the two ive seen them they look very similar to me

 

' Almost no one would be able to tell the diffrence in the two ive seen them they look very similar to me'

Dude, seriously, I can't ascertain what you are talking about. Take a moment and read what you've written before you submit. You will come across much better.

 

 

Sorry C-OW to OW is what i meant

[DrWatson]

You down with OPP-Q? Yeah, you know me.

[Bomber-Bob]

Comparing CR/OW to OW is no worse than comparing a 9.2 to a 9.4. In many case you cannot tell the difference. However, I have to believe that when CGC gives a book White, it is White and it deserves a premium on resale. If others disagree that is fine with me. I would love to purchase White pages for the same price as CR/OW, bring them on !

[mt1000]

Comparing CR/OW to OW is no worse than comparing a 9.2 to a 9.4. In many case you cannot tell the difference. However, I have to believe that when CGC gives a book White, it is White and it deserves a premium on resale. If others disagree that is fine with me. I would love to purchase White pages for the same price as CR/OW, bring them on !

 

I never said anything about a premium for pricing Im just saying i think some people make to big a deal about similarities in PQ. I could care less either way , no ones wrong or right in my book.

[Green]

PQ is an after thought for me too. Doesnt bother me one way or the other. Every collector has their hangups tho, I dont consider books with miswraps for purchase. To each their pwn.

[Green]

You down with OPP-Q? Yeah, you know me.

[mikenyc]

[adamstrange]

I guess my feeling is this, if you've been trying to buy books based on pq then basically you're fooling yourself, since it's a lot of guess work and is quite arbitrary. Both Haspel and Borock have both told me how ridiculous they think it is that people chase page quality.

 

In addition, if you're trying to get a book at a discount with ow/w pages instead of white, you're crazy. cr/ow v. white, that I buy. But on say, 50s DCs, cr/ow is the norm and perfectly acceptable.

 

From my submissions I have gotten the feeling that Hapsel does appreciate PQ.

I have called for notes and have been told that the interior browning was hammered

in the grade. CGC has tightened up on PQ and has taken PQ into account for the grade. I think this is a good thing !

 

I can only go by what he's told me directly on multiple occasions. Not that it's not factored in at all, but just that he feels way too much emphasis is put on it.

It's not like a really important difference like between a 9.2 and 9.4 or a 9.6 and a 9.8.

 

PQ is an important factor for a couple friends of mine who will insist on OW or better to avoid surprises. CGC is not as accurate or consistent with the PQ as I would like as I do prefer nice pages and often find books with CGC cr-ow pages outside the limits of my interest.

[namisgr]

Latest batch to return from Sarasota had a resubmission of a recently slabbed 9.2 ow/w that I thought looked sharper. Came back a 9.4 c/ow.

 

Bob, to be honest (and I mean it), I would rather have the 9.2 OW/W than the 9.4 C/OW. Also, CGC has been tight on PQ of late. I consider this a good thing = they are looking more closely at PQ.

Are you serious cr/ow vs. ow/w I would bet that you cant differentiate between the two had they been raw.

 

This is a funny quote, since it IS the same book that Bob is referring to.

 

Also, I'm willing to take your bet. There were several CGC grading contests held in 2009 at shows around the country, and some people proved they could predict with good reliability the page quality designations of CGC. I finished first in this regard at the Wizard Philly show.