Hold onto your hats for the May Heritage auction....

[Nexus]

Some above are predicting $200K for this DKR splash.

 

Only $200K? I predict...ONE MEELLION DOLLARS!

 

Let's be real: $100K would already be a monumental win for a 25 year old interior page. That's already silly enough. Anything over and above that and the really big winners will be those with DKR art, especially those with lots of DKR art. They win no matter what. Losers will be those who are still looking for their examples as I expect DKR values will spike as a result of this auction (at least in the short term).

 

This would put the DKR second only behind the X-men 1 splash that Comic Connect says sold for $250K?

 

For all the Heritage gets, at least they didn't include any "rumored" sales figures in their auction description. No cheap tricks like that necessary here. This is definitely a trophy piece to satisfy the biggest ego and I expect at least some BSDs will be bidding for that reason. However, I do question how far anyone will go for an emotional buy. We'll see!

 

[bocaratondefense]

$200K sounds unlikely for the splash, but who knows. The not particularlly special DK page sold for $38K in the last auction, so anything is possible.

 

 

 

[bedrockcomics]

If this sells for over 100 K - I will eat my hat

If this sells for over 200 K - I will eat my shorts

[lb jefferies]

If this sells for over 100 K - I will eat my hat

If this sells for over 200 K - I will eat my shorts

 

Well, I'm pretty sure your shorts are safe but you might want to put some relish on that hat ...

[paperheart]

If this sells for over 100 K - I will eat my hat

If this sells for over 200 K - I will eat my shorts

 

Well, I'm pretty sure your shorts are safe but you might want to put some relish on that hat ...

 

i was thinking barbeque sauce

[stinkininkin]

If this sells for over 100 K - I will eat my hat

If this sells for over 200 K - I will eat my shorts

 

While I know you are kidding about your dining options, do you make this statement because you really don't believe the splash will hit 6 figures or because you really think it unworthy of hitting 6 figures or both?

 

Scott

[delekkerste]

I've got the DKR TPB in front of me now. Most striking to me is comparing the published version to the original. This is one of those pieces that loses so, so much without the coloring. There are practically acres of blank white space and the uncolored figures don't have much more detail than a lot of convention sketches. You lose the bright lights of the city creating a glow that slowly bleeds into deeper, darker night, you lose the menacing darkness in Batman's cape and cowl and you lose the striking red/gold/green of the youthful Robin contrasting against the darkness represented by both Batman and Gotham City.

 

The original just looks terribly sparse, and doesn't confer to me that je ne sais quoi wow factor that you would expect from something with a $100K, let alone $200K, price tag. I mean, I'm wowed by the fact that it's a fresh to market splash from one of my all-time favorite storylines, but that's all about the rarity and nostalgia, not about the art itself, which I find to be a bit underwhelming. If you chopped off the cityscape below, it wouldn't look like much more than a decent commissioned pin-up, and I count at least 5 or 6 splashes in the book that I'd rather own (caveat: I'm imagining what the others look like in their uncolored pen & ink form).

 

That said, the price will have to go high enough to ration this single piece among the small group of rabid nostalgic fans willing to go to the mat for this page (you can count me out of that group), so I'm going to guess it sells for $120-$150K. I'd be shocked if it sells for less than $100K and I'll probably feel a little bit ill if it sells for $200K. But, in any case, I hope it fetches a very healthy price for Todd, Steve and the rest of the Heritage team!

[tth2]

If you chopped off the cityscape below, it wouldn't look like much more than a decent commissioned pin-up

While that`s a valid point, it`s also totally irrelevant.

 

It`s true that many commissioned pin-ups are superb pieces of art, and on a pure artistic basis may be better than much of the same artist`s published work because the artist could just focus on making the commissioned piece as good as possible on a stand-alone basis versus integrating a published piece into a story and working under a deadline.

 

However, as you`re well aware, the published piece was just that--published. In the commercial art world (which includes comic OA), that makes all the difference in the world.

[J.Sid]

I've got the DKR TPB in front of me now. Most striking to me is comparing the published version to the original. This is one of those pieces that loses so, so much without the coloring. There are practically acres of blank white space and the uncolored figures don't have much more detail than a lot of convention sketches. You lose the bright lights of the city creating a glow that slowly bleeds into deeper, darker night, you lose the menacing darkness in Batman's cape and cowl and you lose the striking red/gold/green of the youthful Robin contrasting against the darkness represented by both Batman and Gotham City.

 

The original just looks terribly sparse, and doesn't confer to me that je ne sais quoi wow factor that you would expect from something with a $100K, let alone $200K, price tag. I mean, I'm wowed by the fact that it's a fresh to market splash from one of my all-time favorite storylines, but that's all about the rarity and nostalgia, not about the art itself, which I find to be a bit underwhelming. If you chopped off the cityscape below, it wouldn't look like much more than a decent commissioned pin-up, and I count at least 5 or 6 splashes in the book that I'd rather own (caveat: I'm imagining what the others look like in their uncolored pen & ink form).

 

That said, the price will have to go high enough to ration this single piece among the small group of rabid nostalgic fans willing to go to the mat for this page (you can count me out of that group), so I'm going to guess it sells for $120-$150K. I'd be shocked if it sells for less than $100K and I'll probably feel a little bit ill if it sells for $200K. But, in any case, I hope it fetches a very healthy price for Todd, Steve and the rest of the Heritage team!

 

 

Let's take a Poll:

a.) Gene wants to buy/win it and is trying to discourage bidding (a la his 'sky is falling' post after every auction)

b.) Gene knows the bidders, has conceded defeat and is in 'sour grapes' mode already

[gambron]

Let's face it, the stars are certainly lined up for this piece to really go to the moon. A-List character, A-List artist, super important story line, extremely short supply of examples let alone ones of this quality (I think all of the real players are well aware of the fact that most of this stuff is hoarded in a particular black-hole collection). As if those things aren't enough, add in a handful of very well-heeled collectors, with an incredibly high level of nostalgia that are literally chomping at the bit. The fact that such an underwhelming page sold for 38k in the last auction should remove all doubts as to whether or not this particular page will hammer at a 6-figure number. I think Gene's estimate of 120-150k is a very good one.

 

As far as the art itself, well, I guess anything that is so stylized will have a tendency to polarize people. I happened to read DKR for the first time as an adult many years ago and I remember being really disappointed with the art. I thoroughly enjoyed the story and am certainly a FM fan so I really WANTED to like it. That being said, having matured as an art collector over the years, I have developed an appreciation of the overall "mood" of Miller's approach to the series and of course the quality of the visual story-telling. However, a part of me can't help but feel that Frank's vision for the series (and certainly the stand alone appeal of the B&W originals) was hurt by either rushed or uninspired inking (maybe both). I've heard stories of Klaus' inking assistants and even assistants of assistants having a hand in things. Or maybe i'm completely off base and the whole "looseness" of the inking was the aesthetic Frank wanted. I'm certainly not an expert and would love to hear Scott's opinion on the above as he's both quite the "draftsman" and a big FM fan himself.

 

And perhaps it's just me but stylistically speaking (the inking line and overall figure drawing), I do notice some similarities between DKR and League of Extraordinary Gentleman. And there is certainly a big part of me that wishes that the level of precision and draftsmanship that was put into the latter, would have been put into DKR. Just look at some LOEG originals, imagine your favorite DKR pages, then let your imagination run wild! Had this happened maybe the magic 200k number wouldn't be completely out of the question

 

Take care guys...

 

Ken R

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=19201

[clemso]

Some above are predicting $200K for this DKR splash. This would put the DKR second only behind the X-men 1 splash that Comic Connect said sold for $250K?

 

 

When did Comic Connect sell the X-Men 1 splash (I assume you mean Kirby) splash for $250K?

[bocaratondefense]

Comic Connect did not sell it; they wrote about it. It was in the description for the X-Men 2 splash auction.

 

 

 

 

[Nexus]

Some above are predicting $200K for this DKR splash. This would put the DKR second only behind the X-men 1 splash that Comic Connect said sold for $250K?

 

 

When did Comic Connect sell the X-Men 1 splash (I assume you mean Kirby) splash for $250K?

 

They didn't. They (or their consignor) claimed that it was "rumored to have sold for $250K" to pump up the perceived value on the X-MEN #2 splash. It's been discussed before. This will catch you up:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=48&Number=4440635&Searchpage=1&Main=165248&Words=+Nexus&topic=0&Search=true#Post4440635

[delekkerste]

Let's take a Poll:

a.) Gene wants to buy/win it and is trying to discourage bidding (a la his 'sky is falling' post after every auction)

b.) Gene knows the bidders, has conceded defeat and is in 'sour grapes' mode already

 

Instead of your usual libelous, totally false cheap shots at me, J. Sid, how about actually addressing the points I made? Tell me where I'm wrong - why don't you go pull out a copy of the book and compare the published page to the OA and tell me which points I made were incorrect. I think you'll find that each and every one was perfectly valid. I understand if people still love the OA for what it is, but nobody with any artistic and intellectual integrity can tell me that I'm way off in my assessment.

 

The art is simply nowhere near as powerful as the published version, not that it will matter to the bidders who will be attracted by the rarity, freshness to market, nostalgia, pride of ownership and other such factors. My estimate of $120K-$150K is right in the middle-to-upper middle of the predicted range here, so it's utterly absurd to imply that I'm trying to talk the price up or down. I don't know what your problem is with me, J. Sid, but you have done nothing but air slanderous and totally false accusations about my collecting motives here (and through PMs) for years, and I'm sick of it. You clearly know very little about me, and yet you presume things that you would know could not possibly be true if you did, so I'm calling you out right now to end this nonsense. This should not be a forum where a board member can just blatantly slander another repeatedly without repercussions.

 

I've said flat out that I'm not going for this page, and I've never given anyone in this hobby any reason to doubt my integrity (as anyone who has ever done a deal with me can confirm). I can state categorically that I have never, either publicly or privately, tried to talk down a piece to get a better price. As with everyone, my opinions are not always correct, but I have never, ever written a word here that I didn't believe at the time.

 

Furthermore, I don't know who the bidders are or what they might pay for this, though I can make an intelligent guess like anyone else clued into the hobby. In any case, if you think anyone who really wants this piece would care at all about what I think or say anyway, you must think more highly of my opinion and my powers of persuasion than I do myself.

 

Gene

[J.Sid]

Hi Gene,

 

Just reminding the board that your actions seldom match your words.

 

The piece is arguably the best interior of all 4 books, and was selected by Frank and DC marketing execs to be used for posters, buttons, ads, statues and more. There are 1,000 positive things you could write about it, yet you chose to compose a 3 paragraph trashing of it. You're a smart guy. There is a reason you did that.

 

I concede a couple of your points: No, Robin is not green, red, and yellow in the OA, and the sky is not blue in the OA either.

 

Jeff

[Bronty]

I think two reasonable people can come to two different conclusions on the quality of that piece depending on whether they are coming at it from a purely art appreciation POV or a value POV. I LOVE it, I just don't love it at 100k+ and sometimes its hard to remember how much you like something when you disagree with the price.

 

Besides, none of our whinging and moaning will affect the price. I think 100k avengers 1s and 4s are ree donk ulous but that hasn't stopped them from garnering that price lately

[Aman619]

I was initially disappointed at seeing the art without colors. It definitely is a shock to see how thin it is w/o clothes on....I agree with all those who see the inking as rushed, or heavy handed. Some of it is truly "wha?"...

 

But, after looking at the hi res scans on Heritage, Millers styling and unique vision still survive strongly. Its all there, and the blunter brush strokes are balanced by the crow quill linework. making a good balance that tickles the eyes.

 

There's whiteout in a few too many places for me, but I dont collect original art so my opinions on that score dont mean much Im sure.

 

Given its importance, some sloppy inking here and there doesnt seem to be much of an impediment to a colossal sale. Really, arent there hundreds of Kirby and Infantino etc etc pieces smothered by questionable inking?

 

Im not bidding, but Id feel safe at any price under 200K and happier closer to 100K

[Paris_Fred]

If this sells for over 100 K - I will eat my hat

If this sells for over 200 K - I will eat my shorts

 

Hi,

 

I think that we need a pic of your hat...

 

P-F

[delekkerste]

Hi Gene,

 

Just reminding the board that your actions seldom match your words.

 

The piece is arguably the best interior of all 4 books, and was selected by Frank and DC marketing execs to be used for posters, buttons, ads, statues and more. There are 1,000 positive things you could write about it, yet you chose to compose a 3 paragraph trashing of it. You're a smart guy. There is a reason you did that.

 

I concede a couple of your points: No, Robin is not green, red, and yellow in the OA, and the sky is not blue in the OA either.

 

Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

As usual, you are totally wrong and completely out of line, and I would sincerely appreciate it if you refrained from further slanderous speculation about me. I have earned a sterling reputation in this hobby, as anyone who knows me personally or the many counterparties with whom I have done OA deals can attest to. These people all know that I simply have no need to do any of the things that you accuse me of in order to try and save a few bucks - the very notion is preposterous.

 

I've had it with your unfounded accusations. Just because I don't share your assessment of this page doesn't mean that I should be subjected to baseless lies and slander just for expressing my opinion.

 

The piece is arguably the best interior of all 4 books, and was selected by Frank and DC marketing execs to be used for posters, buttons, ads, statues and more. There are 1,000 positive things you could write about it, yet you chose to compose a 3 paragraph trashing of it. You're a smart guy. There is a reason you did that.

First, thanks for proving my point. The OA wasn't used for posters, buttons, ads, etc. - the published version was. As I and others (like Aman619 above) have noted, it's a bit of a shock to see how "thin" the art is stripped of the coloring. Second, I didn't "trash" the page, I merely gave my educated and objective opinion about the art. It's still a free country, isn't it? I'm sure many people in the hobby would agree with my points if they assessed them objectively, while any art connoisseur surely would. Where is your basis for me having some kind of ulterior motive? Just because I disagree with you and intelligently expressed my reasons why? And how do you explain why I would give a healthy forecast for the realized price if I was doing as you claim? Face it: your accusations are spurious, baseless and false.

 

Just reminding the board that your actions seldom match your words.

Name one instance where I have talked down a piece and then bought or tried to buy it, as you claim. Oh, that's right, it's NEVER happened, and I think it would be a completely ineffectual strategy in any case. All you can say is that I have been wary of original art values, but have continued to buy it. That has been largely true, and there are very good, logical and obvious reasons why I have continued to buy in spite of my cautious market views:

 

1. I love the art and want to own it, regardless of what I think of the overall market. I may think gasoline prices are going to decline too, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop driving my cars, either.

2. Many/most times you have to buy the art you want when it's available, otherwise it may never be seen again regardless of market conditions.

3. I can afford to spend what I do on art without fear of the consequences of losing money on it.

 

You really need to face facts and admit to yourself that you're wrong.

 

Gene

[comix4fun]

I've seen Gene, time and time again, talk about the pieces he likes and then act on what he likes and actively pursues them at auction or sale and (most of the time) brings them home.

 

I've never seen him degrade a piece of art to diminish interest in an attempt to get the piece for himself at a lower price. That would be a crazy accusation to make about a guy like Gene.

 

Although I disagree from time to time with Gene about where his analysis may take him, he always puts a reasoned, logical argument behind whatever that analysis may be and he's never given me a reason to show him anything other than the utmost of respect.