Comics You personally can't Understand Cost So Much

[bronze_rules]

Men of Tomorrow: Geeks, Gangsters, and the Birth of the Comic Book [Paperback]

Gerard Jones

 

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=14962

 

 

 

[COI]

Let me see if I can get his straight.

The books are printed in Sparta, IL. Some are sorted for distribution right there (which cancels those out), but bundles of them are loaded by train to go to other distribution points.

 

Somehow the mafia, with some kind of bizarre foresight (or inside info - Chuck? Owed the mob for a huge unpaid weed purchases?), target one of these trains to high jack, just knowing that hoarding the cool Silver Surfer #4, would pay big dividends down the road....Hunh?

 

Wait. This is 1968...

 

I'm confused. Seems unlikely.

 

I thought most of you guys didn't believe in conspiracy theories.

I think you are missing the idea. The mob was involved with funny books in order to launder money. They weren't in the business of Billy the Kidding trains. The books were non-consequential, an afterthought to the grand scheme of money laundering.

 

Where can I find more information on the mobs involvement in comics. Has anyone written in depth about this?

 

Here's one place:

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg70.html

 

Granted, it's Chuck, so take it for what it's worth as hearsay.

 

When was Chuck's word promoted to hearsay?

 

As funny as the joke is, I was talking about Chuck repeating what he had heard, not what Chuck said himself.

 

If I'm not taking his word on events, I don't have to take it when it concerns what he's "heard".

[RockMyAmadeus]

Let me see if I can get his straight.

The books are printed in Sparta, IL. Some are sorted for distribution right there (which cancels those out), but bundles of them are loaded by train to go to other distribution points.

 

Somehow the mafia, with some kind of bizarre foresight (or inside info - Chuck? Owed the mob for a huge unpaid weed purchases?), target one of these trains to high jack, just knowing that hoarding the cool Silver Surfer #4, would pay big dividends down the road....Hunh?

 

Wait. This is 1968...

 

I'm confused. Seems unlikely.

 

I thought most of you guys didn't believe in conspiracy theories.

I think you are missing the idea. The mob was involved with funny books in order to launder money. They weren't in the business of Billy the Kidding trains. The books were non-consequential, an afterthought to the grand scheme of money laundering.

 

Where can I find more information on the mobs involvement in comics. Has anyone written in depth about this?

 

Here's one place:

 

http://www.milehighcomics.com/tales/cbg70.html

 

Granted, it's Chuck, so take it for what it's worth as hearsay.

 

When was Chuck's word promoted to hearsay?

 

As funny as the joke is, I was talking about Chuck repeating what he had heard, not what Chuck said himself.

 

If I'm not taking his word on events, I don't have to take it when it concerns what he's "heard".

 

My point exactly. Poor ol' Chuck.

[500Club]

I'm not making an argument. I have absolutely no idea what happened or what could have happened. I don't even think that what I typed was an opinion. I was engaging in what I thought would be a light, fun "What If" type scenario; explaining in a yet more light and fun way what will likely be a mystery lost to the annals of time and Sammy Gravano's memory.

 

Instead, I would much rather have repeatedly hit the tip of my with a tackhammer for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for that.

 

I'll play.

 

I suspect 'low' distribution was actually 'uneven' distribution. Likely a mistake in the distribution chain left some areas dry for SS 4, where other areas got double allotments. The extras in the double allotment areas were never asked for by newsstands, and ended up warehoused or as returns.

[500Club]

Let me see if I can get his straight.

The books are printed in Sparta, IL. Some are sorted for distribution right there (which cancels those out), but bundles of them are loaded by train to go to other distribution points.

 

Somehow the mafia, with some kind of bizarre foresight (or inside info - Chuck? Owed the mob for a huge unpaid weed purchases?), target one of these trains to high jack, just knowing that hoarding the cool Silver Surfer #4, would pay big dividends down the road....Hunh?

 

Wait. This is 1968...

 

I'm confused. Seems unlikely.

 

I thought most of you guys didn't believe in conspiracy theories.

I think you are missing the idea. The mob was involved with funny books in order to launder money. They weren't in the business of Billy the Kidding trains. The books were non-consequential, an afterthought to the grand scheme of money laundering.

 

Where can I find more information on the mobs involvement in comics. Has anyone written in depth about this?

 

Sure, they're buried in a landfill in Jersey.

[seanfingh]

I'm not making an argument. I have absolutely no idea what happened or what could have happened. I don't even think that what I typed was an opinion. I was engaging in what I thought would be a light, fun "What If" type scenario; explaining in a yet more light and fun way what will likely be a mystery lost to the annals of time and Sammy Gravano's memory.

 

Instead, I would much rather have repeatedly hit the tip of my with a tackhammer for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for that.

 

I'll play.

 

I suspect 'low' distribution was actually 'uneven' distribution. Likely a mistake in the distribution chain left some areas dry for SS 4, where other areas got double allotments. The extras in the double allotment areas were never asked for by newsstands, and ended up warehoused or as returns.

 

I wuld responds but I is too stu-Stu-stupid to undermastand what you is tying to cornmunicate.

[Ogami]

I'm not making an argument. I have absolutely no idea what happened or what could have happened. I don't even think that what I typed was an opinion. I was engaging in what I thought would be a light, fun "What If" type scenario; explaining in a yet more light and fun way what will likely be a mystery lost to the annals of time and Sammy Gravano's memory.

 

Instead, I would much rather have repeatedly hit the tip of my with a tackhammer for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for that.

 

I'll play.

 

I suspect 'low' distribution was actually 'uneven' distribution. Likely a mistake in the distribution chain left some areas dry for SS 4, where other areas got double allotments. The extras in the double allotment areas were never asked for by newsstands, and ended up warehoused or as returns.

 

I wuld responds but I is too stu-Stu-stupid to undermastand what you is tying to cornmunicate.

 

admit it, you only replied to show off your new sig.

[Ken Aldred]

Now as for Conan #3.... oh never mind.

I ran across something in a Tales From the Database / Mile High Comics article...

 

'I want to tell you a short story about CONAN #3. For the past 25 years, that issue has been listed in the OFFICIAL OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK PRICE GUIDE as having low print runs in some areas. Ummm, I don't think that really true. Back in the early 1970's, CONAN was our best-selling title. A peculiarity about those early days, however, was that the CONAN paperback books were all still in print, and fans really cared about which issue adapted which particular R.E.H. story. Issue #3 contains the adaptation of Grim Gray God, which was especially popular. As result, we were constantly sold out of issue #3, while issue #1 tended to stick around longer because of the higher price. To rectify this problem, all the Denver area dealers started marking #3 as "scarce," and pricing it above #1. To our amazement, this "fact" ended up in Bob Overstreet's price guide soon thereafter. To this day, I can't help but smile whenever I see that notation in the guide.'

 

[DiceX]

I'm not making an argument. I have absolutely no idea what happened or what could have happened. I don't even think that what I typed was an opinion. I was engaging in what I thought would be a light, fun "What If" type scenario; explaining in a yet more light and fun way what will likely be a mystery lost to the annals of time and Sammy Gravano's memory.

 

Instead, I would much rather have repeatedly hit the tip of my with a tackhammer for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for that.

 

I'll play.

 

I suspect 'low' distribution was actually 'uneven' distribution. Likely a mistake in the distribution chain left some areas dry for SS 4, where other areas got double allotments. The extras in the double allotment areas were never asked for by newsstands, and ended up warehoused or as returns.

 

I wuld responds but I is too stu-Stu-stupid to undermastand what you is tying to cornmunicate.

 

admit it, you only replied to show off your new sig.

 

 

 

[500Club]

Now as for Conan #3.... oh never mind.

I ran across something in a Tales From the Database / Mile High Comics article...

 

'I want to tell you a short story about CONAN #3. For the past 25 years, that issue has been listed in the OFFICIAL OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK PRICE GUIDE as having low print runs in some areas. Ummm, I don't think that really true. Back in the early 1970's, CONAN was our best-selling title. A peculiarity about those early days, however, was that the CONAN paperback books were all still in print, and fans really cared about which issue adapted which particular R.E.H. story. Issue #3 contains the adaptation of Grim Gray God, which was especially popular. As result, we were constantly sold out of issue #3, while issue #1 tended to stick around longer because of the higher price. To rectify this problem, all the Denver area dealers started marking #3 as "scarce," and pricing it above #1. To our amazement, this "fact" ended up in Bob Overstreet's price guide soon thereafter. To this day, I can't help but smile whenever I see that notation in the guide.'

 

 

I'd read that in one of Chuckie's CBG columns - which led to my Conan 3 comment a few pages back. (thumbs u

[Ogami]

I'm not making an argument. I have absolutely no idea what happened or what could have happened. I don't even think that what I typed was an opinion. I was engaging in what I thought would be a light, fun "What If" type scenario; explaining in a yet more light and fun way what will likely be a mystery lost to the annals of time and Sammy Gravano's memory.

 

Instead, I would much rather have repeatedly hit the tip of my with a tackhammer for the last 45 minutes. So thanks for that.

 

I'll play.

 

I suspect 'low' distribution was actually 'uneven' distribution. Likely a mistake in the distribution chain left some areas dry for SS 4, where other areas got double allotments. The extras in the double allotment areas were never asked for by newsstands, and ended up warehoused or as returns.

 

I wuld responds but I is too stu-Stu-stupid to undermastand what you is tying to cornmunicate.

 

admit it, you only replied to show off your new sig.

 

 

 

honestly, I only came back for the cons.

[Zonker]

Now as for Conan #3.... oh never mind.

I ran across something in a Tales From the Database / Mile High Comics article...

 

'I want to tell you a short story about CONAN #3. For the past 25 years, that issue has been listed in the OFFICIAL OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK PRICE GUIDE as having low print runs in some areas. Ummm, I don't think that really true. Back in the early 1970's, CONAN was our best-selling title. A peculiarity about those early days, however, was that the CONAN paperback books were all still in print, and fans really cared about which issue adapted which particular R.E.H. story. Issue #3 contains the adaptation of Grim Gray God, which was especially popular. As result, we were constantly sold out of issue #3, while issue #1 tended to stick around longer because of the higher price. To rectify this problem, all the Denver area dealers started marking #3 as "scarce," and pricing it above #1. To our amazement, this "fact" ended up in Bob Overstreet's price guide soon thereafter. To this day, I can't help but smile whenever I see that notation in the guide.'

 

 

I'd read that in one of Chuckie's CBG columns - which led to my Conan 3 comment a few pages back. (thumbs u

 

There's a competing theory promoted by Bob Beerbohm that Conan 3 was perceived as scarce because it just happened to be missed by one of the early speculators, who made a habit of hoarding Conans for resell (perhaps buying at a discount copies "fallen off the truck"). This guy supposedly just missed his connection on Conan 3 for some reason, and so it was perceived as "scarce" in the aftermarket. Nothing to do with the original newstand distribution, everything to do with the aftermarket supply.

 

Further support for Beerbohm's theory is this quote from board member MANNUP mmedhy (also from the Bay area):

 

But for me, there was one guy, who was waayyyy ahead of the curve. I first saw him in Berkeley, California in all places a basement of a book store on Telegraph ave. He was there in the Magazine section with his suitcase on the floor. He had golden age comics as well as marvels. I bought Spiderman #1 for 10 bucks over a golden age Captain America he was selling, I will never forget that, it was circa about 1968 or there abouts. Barry B. was his name. I asked him about his phone number and he became very quiet. In the old days you did not give out your number or tell "anybody" your address...that was off limits. it was a very different world back then.

 

A few years later, either we ran into to each other and exchanged numbers or I found his number thru another collector ( I think that it is it), anyway, I got in touch with him and I told him I was buying certain comic books at very high prices and such and he invited me to come over to his mom's house. He told me he had a real good collection. We we to his room and he had some comics there and I said is this all you have a few stacks of DC comics, because this is not a good collection, he was scoping me out and again this went on in the early days which might account for my attitude today. I was not impressed and he could tell and I said " I brought all this money for this", Finally, he said" this is nothing". We go upstairs to a attic floor, he opened the door and ....my God stacks and stacks of comic books well over 20,000+ in mint condition were there in front of my eyes and I had just blown my collecting mind. It just was not the amount either, everything was stacked so neatly and every comic book was like "brand new" and we did not have comic bags back or he did not use then and that impressed me how he stored his collection and the way it looked. Even a comic book store did not have anything close to this and every stack had good stuff in it. At the time I was collecting late 1950's and very early 1960 DC's only. I had the pure joy to go thru just about ever stack of DCs we did not even get to the Marvels stacks....let me tell you that is "nothing" in the world like looking at a stack of early square box 10 and 12 cent DC's in brand new unread condition, holding them, the smell of them. He was very cool sort of hip guy that you would not expect to collect comics at that time, sort of the "guy" that "gets a lot of chicks" type and very well spoken, and knew his comics "cold". He was a generation up from me and at the time that was maybe 6 or 7 years. But he knew his stuff and you had to "respect" that.

Owning what he did is not the reason, why I thought he was the "smartest" collector I had ever known. What he showed me next, did.

 

What are those stacks of new comcs over there. "just an investment he said". Where did you get them....from Magazine Distributors. Wow, I had never thought of that. Buying comics not from the store, but from wholesalers directly and I did not think you could buy them that way. "I went to more than one" he said.. Wow, that blew my mind. Did you get a discount. "No, as a matter of fact I had to pay a slight premium for the guys to get them all for me". Why in the world would somebody ever pay over cover price for a new comic book. I thought this guy was the biggest fool on the planet. You could get much order comics at a bookstores all over the place and much more valuable too and even cheaper than the cover price of the new comic sometimes.

.

MM: "What did you buy"

 

BB: "One thousand copies"

 

MM: "Are you Kidding me"

 

BB: "Look for yourself"

 

MM:" It is all the same comic book"

 

BB:" I know"

 

MM: "That is $150 bucks and that is a lot of collecting money"

 

BB: "yep"

 

I bought some nice books from him, but his prices were a bit "high" but condition made up for it. I should of bought "more". Over the next few months I thought over and over how much of fool this guy was. Then something began happening.

 

As time began to set in, and the book became one of the biggest hits ever in its day.

Less than two years later...I began buying from a distributor directly....I made my first purchase of 100 copies of the DC's " Demon #1". My entire attitude towards him changed and now I was doing what he did. I began to see, that he was "far" "far" ahead of me in his thinking, nobody and I mean nobody had ever done what he did on that "scale" at that time.

 

I will always remember you BarryB for who you are and the vision that you had:

 

The "MAN" of 1000 Conan #1's

 

 

 

To bring this full circle, I wonder if Barry B. is similarly responsible for the perception of the scarcity of Silver Surfer #4?

[ticket_stub-migration]

So long as it's valuable because it's a classic cover, and not the bogus "low distribution" excuse that Overstreet has used for decades.

 

 

Really! Man, I'd always heard the low distribution due to a shipment being destroyed by flood or some such. Didn't realize that was controversially true or not. Just assumed that's the reason for the high price. It is a very cool cover though imo.

 

A shipment from whom? Where? After the books left Sparta, they scattered to the four winds, to different distribution hubs. And if there was a disaster that wiped out a certain percentage of Silver Surfer #4s, why aren't all the rest of the books that were shipped that week in November, 1968 to wherever WITH those fabled "destroyed" Silver Surfer #4s ALSO "low distribution"? They would have suffered the exact same fate, since comics weren't distributed individually.

 

After all...for there to have been a significant ENOUGH portion of the books destroyed to result in actual low distribution, the event would have had to occur relatively close to the very last time every single copy was in the same place: World Color, in Sparta. After that, they'd have been put in trucks (I don't think plane distribution was in use at this time, but maybe), and driven to Atlanta, New York, etc. For a single particular book to have been randomly and coincidentally targeted during this process would have been very difficult. After that, the books were regionally distributed, then locally distributed, then put on newsstands all around the country....all in about a week. At that point, the books would have been far too well disbursed for any significant portion of them to have been destroyed.

 

Do you have any documentation of a "flood" or other such thing actually occuring? If anyone does, by all means, please share it.

 

I'd wager he simply confused the Miracleman # 15 story with SS # 4.

[ticket_stub-migration]

Here is my penultimate post on the subject.

 

Pssst - that word means "next to last".

[ticket_stub-migration]

Let me see if I can get his straight.

The books are printed in Sparta, IL. Some are sorted for distribution right there (which cancels those out), but bundles of them are loaded by train to go to other distribution points.

 

Somehow the mafia, with some kind of bizarre foresight (or inside info - Chuck? Owed the mob for a huge unpaid weed purchases?), target one of these trains to high jack, just knowing that hoarding the cool Silver Surfer #4, would pay big dividends down the road....Hunh?

 

Wait. This is 1968...

 

I'm confused. Seems unlikely.

 

I thought most of you guys didn't believe in conspiracy theories.

I think you are missing the idea. The mob was involved with funny books in order to launder money. They weren't in the business of Billy the Kidding trains. The books were non-consequential, an afterthought to the grand scheme of money laundering.

 

Where can I find more information on the mobs involvement in comics. Has anyone written in depth about this?

 

Maybe check with Robert Beerbohm? He was writing a book called something like "Comic Wars". I think he had some mafia related/ "low distribution" stuff in there. I also seem to remember that some excerpts were printed in Comic Book Marketplace.

[bababooey]

Not sure if this is thread krapping or thread recapping...

[seanfingh]

Here is my penultimate post on the subject.

 

Pssst - that word means "next to last".

 

And so it was, genius.

[jools&jim]

 

Let me see if I can get his straight.

The books are printed in Sparta, IL. Some are sorted for distribution right there (which cancels those out), but bundles of them are loaded by train to go to other distribution points.

 

Somehow the mafia, with some kind of bizarre foresight (or inside info - Chuck? Owed the mob for a huge unpaid weed purchases?), target one of these trains to high jack, just knowing that hoarding the cool Silver Surfer #4, would pay big dividends down the road....Hunh?

 

Wait. This is 1968...

 

I'm confused. Seems unlikely.

 

I thought most of you guys didn't believe in conspiracy theories.

I think you are missing the idea. The mob was involved with funny books in order to launder money. They weren't in the business of Billy the Kidding trains. The books were non-consequential, an afterthought to the grand scheme of money laundering.

 

Where can I find more information on the mobs involvement in comics. Has anyone written in depth about this?

 

Maybe check with Robert Beerbohm? He was writing a book called something like "Comic Wars". I think he had some mafia related/ "low distribution" stuff in there. I also seem to remember that some excerpts were printed in Comic Book Marketplace.

 

I'm not sure about the mob's (direct) involvement with comics, but it is well-known and well-documented that the Mafia was heavily into porno (print and movies), especially on the east coast, but elsewhere as well during the '60s - '80s. There are also stories (some anecdotal, some verifiable, including an incidence in my personal experience) to support the idea that at least some early comic book stores were associated with, or operated as an adjunct to, adult bookstores and/or headshops.

 

How this impacted scarcity, etc., I don't know (but if it did, it was almost certainly unintentional). However, it is no more conspiratorial to suggest that the mob had its fingers in print media than it is to say that they also profited from pinball, vending machines, chicken distribution, vinyl records, and auto body repair, all of which are a matter of historical record.

 

Edit: Cf. this as well...

 

http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2012.html

 

 

 

[Ogami]

Here is my penultimate post on the subject.

 

Pssst - that word means "next to last".

 

And so it was, genius.

 

well not now, it isn't.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Wow.

 

All sorts of replies from people, supporting the idea that "low distribution" is a myth.

 

Imagine that.

 

I DO worry whether this post of mine is simple enough to be understood, though....