Post your San Francisco/Tom Reilly books 4 4

[originalisbest]

But, that's not really an issue here, is it?

 

Actually, it is an issue but only if one is willing to see the forest from the trees.

 

BLB has over decades carefully crafted a false image as a grandfatherly hobby historian (and professional victim) to shield his many misdeeds, similar to how Lance Armstrong used his charity and false reputation to deflect his critics.

 

Portraying oneself as the proverbial 'big man on campus' - all the while reducing the contributions of others and manipulating the facts - serves to enhance that false image, duping and creating doubt.

 

I have vast professional training and experience in dealing with such individuals, but please don't just take my word for it - our very own esteemed Yellow Kid is intimately familiar with BLB and yet he loathes him and won't speak to him anymore. Why is that? Send him a PM and find out for yourself.

 

'nuf said, as they say.

[Straw-Man]

mayhaps the yellow kid has good judgment.

[Tri-Color Brian]

OK, in this case I stand corrected on my assumption...not sure if i want to hear all the gory details though, I think the word of Yellow Kid is good enough for me. All I really know about BLB is that 20 years ago he seemed to want to raise values of certain books he thought were scarce and unknown and charged vast multiples of guide for them on his lists. I thought it was a little over the top, kinda like that guy in FL does now, only worse...

Edited May 5, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[Mmehdy]

I watched the whole pulp non-delivery incident and it was shameful, totally non-defensible.

 

Let's also not forget the Jerry Bails situation either - willfully and intentionally defrauding your supposed best friend's widow is lower than low.

 

Might as well take investment advice from Bernie Madoff or listen to a character and ethics speech by Lance Armstrong - as I said, a complete waste of time.

 

What about this lobby card deal that Bob is talking about.....what is you side of the story and did you ever pay him for them...?

[sfcityduck]

But, that's not really an issue here, is it?

 

Actually, it is an issue but only if one is willing to see the forest from the trees.

 

BLB has over decades carefully crafted a false image as a grandfatherly hobby historian (and professional victim) to shield his many misdeeds, similar to how Lance Armstrong used his charity and false reputation to deflect his critics.

 

Portraying oneself as the proverbial 'big man on campus' - all the while reducing the contributions of others and manipulating the facts - serves to enhance that false image, duping and creating doubt.

 

I have vast professional training and experience in dealing with such individuals, but please don't just take my word for it - our very own esteemed Yellow Kid is intimately familiar with BLB and yet he loathes him and won't speak to him anymore. Why is that? Send him a PM and find out for yourself.

 

Look, I get it. I remember the Jerry Bails, pulp delivery, etc. threads. But, this is not a conversation where we are either (1) contending BLB is a good guy or (2) discussing his business practices. Instead, this is a thread where we are trying to assess what is known about the SF collection, and identify sources of additional information that might be discoverable to clarify a few mysteries. Me, I'm only interested because I live in SF, used to very occasionally shop at Comics & Comix in Berkeley in the late 70s, and it is a good story.

 

To be clear, I don't want BLB to come back to this board so he can debate you. I would prefer to see the spat divorced from this issue.

 

You think BLB's information is "Not worth reading in the slightest..." I disagree.

 

I come at this Reilly story based on my own decades of experience examining witnesses, sifting fact from fiction (both intentional and unintentional). And my experience tells me that it is a mistake to believe that just because someone has been dishonest means that they will ALWAYS be dishonest. As a police officer, you know that, I'm sure.

 

BLB's story about the discovery of the SF collection is not only generally consistent with what other witnesses recollect, but it is also not particularly self-serving. It is difficult to see what motivation BLB would have had for making up the Reilly story, long before "pedigrees" mattered, or for now making up the Arnheim story or the other types of details that people here are hoping can clarify the questions. So the notion that we should reject BLB's story and disregard everything he says, as a matter of principle, is foolish.

 

Whether his recollection is good is another question. But, how can anyone know without giving his story the credence to check it out?

[sfcityduck]

OK, in this case I stand corrected on my assumption...not sure if i want to hear all the gory details though, I think the word of Yellow Kid is good enough for me. All I really know about BLB is that 20 years ago he seemed to want to raise values of certain books he thought were scarce and unknown and charged vast multiples of guide for them on his lists. I thought it was a little over the top, kinda like that guy in FL does now, only worse...

 

Sounds like you are talking about Chuck in the 70s. If it wasn't for guys being aggressive about making the market, a lot of folks on this board would be much poorer (at least on paper).

[Tri-Color Brian]

OK, in this case I stand corrected on my assumption...not sure if i want to hear all the gory details though, I think the word of Yellow Kid is good enough for me. All I really know about BLB is that 20 years ago he seemed to want to raise values of certain books he thought were scarce and unknown and charged vast multiples of guide for them on his lists. I thought it was a little over the top, kinda like that guy in FL does now, only worse...

 

Sounds like you are talking about Chuck in the 70s. If it wasn't for guys being aggressive about making the market, a lot of folks on this board would be much poorer (at least on paper).

 

The Mile High collection and other High grade collections are a little different than just pulling some scarce, cool book out of a box and saying it should sell for $600 when the guide says $30...just because YOU think it's worth that much. I saw the book in question and went on a search of my own and got one for $60. The same hype was done by Earl at Passport comics in North Hollywood back in the 80s. He'd put a bunch of common books on the wall, create a theme around them, and then charge 10X guide to his unsuspecting, uneducated customers. He did that over and over. He was like a carnival shill. Now, don't get me wrong...I'm sure Earl was a knowledgeable guy and I enjoyed his antics, but I never bought anything from him. I'd go find it somewhere else at a fraction of the price.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[MrBedrock]

But, that's not really an issue here, is it?

 

Actually, it is an issue but only if one is willing to see the forest from the trees.

 

BLB has over decades carefully crafted a false image as a grandfatherly hobby historian (and professional victim) to shield his many misdeeds, similar to how Lance Armstrong used his charity and false reputation to deflect his critics.

 

Portraying oneself as the proverbial 'big man on campus' - all the while reducing the contributions of others and manipulating the facts - serves to enhance that false image, duping and creating doubt.

 

I have vast professional training and experience in dealing with such individuals, but please don't just take my word for it - our very own esteemed Yellow Kid is intimately familiar with BLB and yet he loathes him and won't speak to him anymore. Why is that? Send him a PM and find out for yourself.

 

Look, I get it. I remember the Jerry Bails, pulp delivery, etc. threads. But, this is not a conversation where we are either (1) contending BLB is a good guy or (2) discussing his business practices. Instead, this is a thread where we are trying to assess what is known about the SF collection, and identify sources of additional information that might be discoverable to clarify a few mysteries. Me, I'm only interested because I live in SF, used to very occasionally shop at Comics & Comix in Berkeley in the late 70s, and it is a good story.

 

To be clear, I don't want BLB to come back to this board so he can debate you. I would prefer to see the spat divorced from this issue.

 

You think BLB's information is "Not worth reading in the slightest..." I disagree.

 

I come at this Reilly story based on my own decades of experience examining witnesses, sifting fact from fiction (both intentional and unintentional). And my experience tells me that it is a mistake to believe that just because someone has been dishonest means that they will ALWAYS be dishonest. As a police officer, you know that, I'm sure.

 

BLB's story about the discovery of the SF collection is not only generally consistent with what other witnesses recollect, but it is also not particularly self-serving. It is difficult to see what motivation BLB would have had for making up the Reilly story, long before "pedigrees" mattered, or for now making up the Arnheim story or the other types of details that people here are hoping can clarify the questions. So the notion that we should reject BLB's story and disregard everything he says, as a matter of principle, is foolish.

 

Whether his recollection is good is another question. But, how can anyone know without giving his story the credence to check it out?

Having spent decades examining witnesses I am sure that you know in legal circles the general consensus is that once someone tells one lie then everything else they say is suspect. The problem here is that Bob's recollection does contain false information. (Interestingly I just went back to reread his Facebook post to quote specifics and it appears either Bob took the story down or I have been blocked from looking at it - if someone could post it in the thread that would be great). Should we consider the other parts of his story? Certainly. But unfortunately, other than the fact that we do know he bought some books, all of those other parts are now suspect as well. We don't know how many books he bought, and his word on that is suspect (who knows if he may be inflating the number to include books not originally part of the purchase). We don't know what titles, and his word on that is suspect. Basically I am not sure what we can glean from Bob's story that wouldn't need independent verification from another source.

[Robot Man]

Who on this board remembers Rick durell supercollector

 

I do. Went to his house several times. One of the best comic collections I ever have seen!

 

Rick Durrell passed on before I ever met him; according to a mutual friend (Chuck McCleary), Rick owned a gas station and had quite a spectacular comic book collection. I believe that collection eventually went to Ernie Gerber (and a sad story it is).

 

Rick haunted the famous shops in Hollywood (Collectors Book Store, Bond Street Books, etc.) and sometimes we can catch a glimpse of him in vintage photos.

 

Shame that he died so young...

 

Here is the article I posted a while back about Rick. At a young age I was blown away by his collection and his passion about it. (Anybody know the other guy Fred White?)

 

 

 

 

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

Here it is. It was farther down the pg. due to some new posts he put up...I cut out some of the derogatory remarks aimed at us and Sacentaur specifically.

 

TOM REILLY PEDIGREE COLLECTION

Update on aspects of its History.

If you are interested in history of "pedigree" comic book collections, some say the Tom Reilly comic book collection of approximately 4000 issues dated from summer of 1939 thru the summer of 1945 stands as the "second best" of such-named collections after the legendary fabled Edgar Church collection fell in to the hands of Colorado-based dealer Chuck Rozanski and his wife half a decade later in the late 1970s. Many have voiced over the years that placed side by side the Reilly copies are whiter paper, brighter colors, hence, actually more desirable.

 

Doctor Arnheim and his wife lived in Moraga, Calif. They related to me Tom Reilly's parents lived in Piedmont, Calif, a sub-set of the larger city of Oakland, Calif.

 

Piedmont was for many decades the "Beverley Hills" of Oakland where wealthy white folks lived. It would take some one of financial means to purchase literally one of every comic book being published from Dec 1941 thru the summer of 1945 then placing them unread in to their son's bedroom awaiting his return from the Second World War.

 

Seems Tom had begun buying comic books in the summer of 1939 in time to have scored a Detective Comics #27. He enlisted the same week as Pearl Harbor in Dec 1941. Off in to the Pacific Theater he went going thru the entire war only to be killed in a kamikaze attack some time during the summer of 1945.

His grieving parents then sealed his room, themselves dying in Dec 1972. Three sets of relatives divided up the Reilly estate. The comic books were merely rough counted in to three same size batches. There was no rhyme nor reason what ended up in which batch. That much was evident with what was in each when they began to be sold to us.

 

When Doctor Arnheim and his wife brought the first third of this fabled collection to the Berkeleycon 73 we hosted in the ASUC Building on the UC-Berkeley campus on Sunday April 22 1973, there were two lost souls who first encountered these trusting old folks named Nick Marcus and Mike Manyak. Mike seemingly has attempted to pass himself off as some sort of expert on this collection. I find the concept laughable if that is indeed what has been transpiring

 

Nick and Mike flipped thru that first batch, pulled out all the Timely issues including Captain America #1 and proceeded to pay the unsuspecting owners all of a buck each. As in one dollar each for NM/M Timely issues.

 

I showed Doctor Arnheim the then current Overstreet comic book price guide #2 as others were trying to get these high grade comics dirt cheap. Ethics? You judge.

 

Doctor Arnheim was visibly upset when he asked me specifically to look up and inform him of the value of a NM Captain America #1. More Ethics? You be the judge on that note. Mayhaps ask Steve Carey. He is the one who steals things from others.

 

Upon hearing what a Captain America #1 actually was worth Dr Arnheim closed down any one looking thru the comics, got the ASUC building guy to wheel the pallet loader full of comics back down to their car and away they drove off.

 

A Keystone Cops antics scenario developed with some of us following them to their house where we talked with them. I left them that same copy of Overstreet #2. Also part of the "Keystone Kops" was David Belmont (then of Rochester NY) and Bob Selvig (then of Minneapolis area). They proceeded to wait in a motel near our Berkeley store located at 2512 Telegraph Ave.

 

A few days later as head vintage comics purchaser of our first comic book store Ye Olde Berkeley Comics Art Shoppe at the Arnheim house in Moraga Calif myself and Jon Campbell bought this collection for 40% of Guide. There were three "lots" involved of us with our store, Belmont and Selvig. We were up all night dividing up this batch of perfect shape mostly never read comic books.

 

A tip of the ice berg which turned out to be merely the first third of this estate because a week or so later another batch of relatives walked in an equal amount of high grade NM comics to sell to us. This time we at our Berkeley comic book store absorbed the entire batch all by ourselves.

 

When I say "we" I mean the late John Barrett, myself Robert Beerbohm and Bud Plant. We paid this second sets of relatives 60% of Overstreet #2 Guide.

 

At the time when sizing up what had been in Batch #1 and Batch #2 compared to what was NOT in both of these batches put together, one of the first things I said was there HAD to be more comic books.

 

About a month later a 3rd batch of relatives who lived back east walked in with another batch of well over a thousand mint Golden Age comic books. We paid 60% of Overstreet #3 as the "new" Guide had just been issued. Ethics? You judge.

 

Closer to 1300 or so was in each batch. Added up there were approx 4000 in total is the count I had made up extrapolating what Nick and Mike had "bought" in Timely issues from the Arnheims that hour or so the Arnheims were at the Berkeleycon on Sunday afternoon.

 

There was some duplication which is understandable when one of each was being sought awaiting the return of their son from the war. Who was actually keeping inventory control back in the 1940s over some funny books?

 

MOST of the Reilly copies had neither the lower back cover rubber stamp nor any sort of Gilboy Agency "G" pencil arrival dates. MOST reilly copies are lost in to the mists of time and mercantiling of collections over the decades since they surfaced.

 

Any one who knows any thing approaching a modicum of knowledge about comic book distributor inventory "control" back then knows on any given batch coming from ID to a periodical retailer mostly it was the top copy of any given batch of a title which had the "arrival" data and copy count on it.

 

The CGC people who continue to dub this "San Francisco" copies merely continue to display their ignorance of how the collection became to be dubbed thusly.

 

Along with other Bay Area comics dealers I was coming down from the Bay Area to the LA area setting up at shows. Then-novice LA dealer Ron Pussell (long before he moved to Nevada) was exclaiming "Frisco" copies - NOT San Francisco - at LA area shows like David T Alexander and Terry Stroud hosted Super Sundays then in the Hollywood area, or San Diego Comic-Con International shows. Ron was then smitten with a "Mile High" collection acquisition bug.

 

This is akin to ALL of the Los Angeles basin area simply being known as LA to those from northern Calif. The state is two different universes in all actuality.

 

I humbly submit that after 18 years of continuously being re-invited back thru the good graces of owner Steve Geppi in to the pages of Overstreet to teach proper comics business history, I just might know what I am talking about as some one who was "there" every step of the way when the Reilly collection surfaced as well as was sold off. It was the proceeds off the sale of this collection which led us expanding that first Comics & Comix Store #1 in to the USA's first comic book chain store operation with new stores in Lost San Francisco, San Jose and Sacramento by the end of that very summer.

 

There is more to this story. I merely post some of the highlights to a very thrilling experience of personally handling 7/9s of the Reilly collection. By the beginning of 1974 they were all sold off scattered to the four corners of the collecting world. The concept of "pedigree" was still half a decade away.

Edited May 6, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[Sqeggs]

OK, in this case I stand corrected on my assumption...not sure if i want to hear all the gory details though, I think the word of Yellow Kid is good enough for me. All I really know about BLB is that 20 years ago he seemed to want to raise values of certain books he thought were scarce and unknown and charged vast multiples of guide for them on his lists. I thought it was a little over the top, kinda like that guy in FL does now, only worse...

 

Hey! Leave G.A.tor out of this!

[Tri-Color Brian]

Actually ( and i know you know) I was talkin' bout good ole David T....DTAColl on fleabay... Edited May 6, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[sfcityduck]

 

Having spent decades examining witnesses I am sure that you know in legal circles the general consensus is that once someone tells one lie then everything else they say is suspect.

 

If you're a good lawyer, everything someone says to you is suspect.

 

When you are trying to discover the truth, what you look for is consistency and corroboration. The problem is that all witnesses have faulty memories, so almost every witness has some level of inconsistency. Documents are often used to refresh recollections. Unlike in the childishness of the political realm, a "flip flop" by a witness whose recollection has been refreshed is not credibility destroying. None of us have perfect recall.

 

In short, if you are looking for the truth, you ask a lot of questions, sift the answers, and attempt to verify. Which is why there is no harm in asking questions and listening to answers. You take the leads and you investigate. BLB has given some pretty good leads. Now someone has to test their veracity. Ignoring the leads isn't going to help.

[sfcityduck]

Brian,

 

You missed some of those derogatory remarks. No need to repeat them.

Edited May 6, 2015 by sfcityduck

[Tri-Color Brian]

What? Where? Lemme see...I'll check it again...don't anyone quote it until I get rid of those damn things... OK, check it again...I did leave in some of his arrogance though...just for witness introspection...

Edited May 6, 2015 by tricolorbrian

[cheetah]

Could this be a possible relative?

 

 

 

Reilly

 

FWIW, this link concerns a Tom Reilly that was killed in WWII in the Pacific but it is not the Tom Reilly from the comics. One thought I have had us that the family was trying to add value to the collection by associating it with a bonafide war hero. It is pure conjecture on my part and relieves BB of any subterfuge. There were many Tom Reilly's killed in the war and I recall one who died in Europe that looked promising but I have never followed up on it.

[sacentaur]

The same hype was done by Earl at Passport comics in North Hollywood back in the 80s. He'd put a bunch of common books on the wall, create a theme around them, and then charge 10X guide to his unsuspecting, uneducated customers. He did that over and over. He was like a carnival shill. Now, don't get me wrong...I'm sure Earl was a knowledgeable guy and I enjoyed his antics, but I never bought anything from him. I'd go find it somewhere else at a fraction of the price.

 

My first buy from Earl was an EC - he had a group of them pinned to the wall at his shop. I didn't realize until later that the book had carefully colored pencil fill-ins.

 

Another way he promoted himself was to put your name in his newsletter if you bought a pricey vintage book from him - insidious and clever.

 

The last time I saw Earl (before he died) was at the Shrine show where he was way in the back peddling .25 cent books. Kind of sad, actually.

[Robot Man]

It seems like he has kept his story pretty straight over the years. Back in those days most people didn't really keep lists or document a collection like we do today. It came in and went out that simple. That was a long time ago and I really can't blame him for not remembering every detail of the transactions. (I don't remember the early '70's much either).

 

Of all people, I would have to think he has the most info on this collection.

 

Is Bud Plant a member of these boards? It would be great to get him to chine in. I do remember the couple of time when was in the bay area and went to the store, I did all my dealings with Bob himself.

 

Now back to what we are arguing about. Ain't this a cool funny book all naked and un-slabbed/un-graded???

 

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

That link is about kamikazee attacks. It is by a person named Rielly (different spelling) and I see nothing in the write up about a Tom Reilly...

[sacentaur]

Who on this board remembers Rick durell supercollector

 

I do. Went to his house several times. One of the best comic collections I ever have seen!

 

Rick Durrell passed on before I ever met him; according to a mutual friend (Chuck McCleary), Rick owned a gas station and had quite a spectacular comic book collection. I believe that collection eventually went to Ernie Gerber (and a sad story it is).

 

Rick haunted the famous shops in Hollywood (Collectors Book Store, Bond Street Books, etc.) and sometimes we can catch a glimpse of him in vintage photos.

 

Shame that he died so young...

 

Here is the article I posted a while back about Rick. At a young age I was blown away by his collection and his passion about it. (Anybody know the other guy Fred White?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great stuff, though the image of the cat walking on those "more valuable" books makes one cringe (it's between a MF 54 and a HT 1, yikes)!

 

(never heard of Fred White, but I'll ask Chuck next time I see him)