Post your San Francisco/Tom Reilly books 4 4

[Robot Man]

Actually ( and i know you know) I was talkin' bout good ole David T....DTAColl on fleabay...

 

Hey Brian:

Got any funny Alexander/Stroud American Comic Book Co stories? They used to hang with Beerbong a lot in the day. I remember going to their store up in Studio City. Just TONS of old books. Seems like they were having collections walk through the door daily!

[Robot Man]

Who on this board remembers Rick durell supercollector

 

I do. Went to his house several times. One of the best comic collections I ever have seen!

 

Rick Durrell passed on before I ever met him; according to a mutual friend (Chuck McCleary), Rick owned a gas station and had quite a spectacular comic book collection. I believe that collection eventually went to Ernie Gerber (and a sad story it is).

 

Rick haunted the famous shops in Hollywood (Collectors Book Store, Bond Street Books, etc.) and sometimes we can catch a glimpse of him in vintage photos.

 

Shame that he died so young...

 

Here is the article I posted a while back about Rick. At a young age I was blown away by his collection and his passion about it. (Anybody know the other guy Fred White?)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great stuff, though the image of the cat walking on those "more valuable" books makes one cringe (it's between a MF 54 and a HT 1, yikes)!

 

(never heard of Fred White, but I'll ask Chuck next time I see him)

 

(Those were his "under copies")

[Tri-Color Brian]

Actually ( and i know you know) I was talkin' bout good ole David T....DTAColl on fleabay...

 

Hey Brian:

Got any funny Alexander/Stroud American Comic Book Co stories? They used to hang with Beerbong a lot in the day. I remember going to their store up in Studio City. Just TONS of old books. Seems like they were having collections walk through the door daily!

 

I posted one in the tomorrow's Treasures thread and you never acknowledged it...

[Sqeggs]

A couple of stray thoughts on the Tom Reilly issue. Keeping straight what you knew then from what you know now isn't always easy. Although BLB now thinks that he heard the Tom Reilly name from Dr. Arnheim, perhaps he or Plant or somebody got the name from the stamp on the back cover.

 

"The books were bought by the family of a guy killed in the war. Wonder what his name was? , the stamp on the back looks like 'Tom Reilly'."

 

They began using the name and forgot it's origin.

 

Or ... he was dealing with the Reilly family but the soldier in question was a nephew of the mother (not the son) and so had a different last name. Or he was the mother's son from a previous marriage and so had a different last name.

 

Or something. Hard to see how it can be disentangled at this late date. As I understand where we are:

 

1. Assuming the story of the comics being bought for a soldier who died in the war is correct, a family named Reilly was somehow involved.

 

2. The basic BLB narrative that the soldier was named Tom Reilly and he was from Piedmont can't be right because apparently (relying on boardie research here) no man with that name from Northern California died in combat in WW II.

[Tri-Color Brian]

A couple of stray thoughts on the Tom Reilly issue. Keeping straight what you knew then from what you know now isn't always easy. Although BLB now thinks that he heard the Tom Reilly name from Dr. Arnheim, perhaps he or Plant or somebody got the name from the stamp on the back cover.

 

"The books were bought by the family of a guy killed in the war. Wonder what his name was? , the stamp on the back looks like 'Tom Reilly'."

 

They began using the name and forgot it's origin.

 

Or ... he was dealing with the Reilly family but the soldier in question was a nephew of the mother (not the son) and so had a different last name. Or he was the mother's son from a previous marriage and so had a different last name.

 

Or something. Hard to see how it can be disentangled at this late date. As I understand where we are:

 

1. Assuming the story of the comics being bought for a soldier who died in the war is correct, a family named Reilly was somehow involved.

 

2. The basic BLB narrative that the soldier was named Tom Reilly and he was from Piedmont can't be right because apparently (relying on boardie research here) no man with that name from Northern California died in combat in WW II.

 

I'll bet you like to tell little kids that Santa isn't real either...

[Sqeggs]

A couple of stray thoughts on the Tom Reilly issue. Keeping straight what you knew then from what you know now isn't always easy. Although BLB now thinks that he heard the Tom Reilly name from Dr. Arnheim, perhaps he or Plant or somebody got the name from the stamp on the back cover.

 

"The books were bought by the family of a guy killed in the war. Wonder what his name was? , the stamp on the back looks like 'Tom Reilly'."

 

They began using the name and forgot it's origin.

 

Or ... he was dealing with the Reilly family but the soldier in question was a nephew of the mother (not the son) and so had a different last name. Or he was the mother's son from a previous marriage and so had a different last name.

 

Or something. Hard to see how it can be disentangled at this late date. As I understand where we are:

 

1. Assuming the story of the comics being bought for a soldier who died in the war is correct, a family named Reilly was somehow involved.

 

2. The basic BLB narrative that the soldier was named Tom Reilly and he was from Piedmont can't be right because apparently (relying on boardie research here) no man with that name from Northern California died in combat in WW II.

 

I'll bet you like to tell little kids that Santa isn't real either...

 

Yes, I do actually. But I also tell them there really is a Bat-Man!

[sacentaur]

Is Bud Plant a member of these boards? It would be great to get him to chine in.

 

I tried to speak to Bud at SDCC (he was actively seeking out Golden Age books and we were comparing notes), but he didn't want anything to do with Beerbohm - yet another former BLB associate who was seemingly repulsed by mere mention of his name. So I dropped it.

 

I really enjoyed chatting with Bud, he had some great knowledge of vintage books.

 

 

[Tri-Color Brian]

Well kiddies, this has been fun, but I'm out of here till the end of the month...ya'll have fun without me...work calls...

[jimjum12]

Is Bud Plant a member of these boards? It would be great to get him to chine in.

 

I tried to speak to Bud at SDCC (he was actively seeking out Golden Age books and we were comparing notes), but he didn't want anything to do with Beerbohm - yet another former BLB associate who was seemingly repulsed by mere mention of his name. So I dropped it.

 

I really enjoyed chatting with Bud, he had some great knowledge of vintage books.

 

 

.....Bud Plant's "origin" story that was spread out over a few issues of Alter Ego is, to me, one of the highlights of a publication that is chock full of highlights. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Mmehdy]

Here it is. It was farther down the pg. due to some new posts he put up...I cut out some of the derogatory remarks aimed at us and Sacentaur specifically.

 

TOM REILLY PEDIGREE COLLECTION

Update on aspects of its History.

If you are interested in history of "pedigree" comic book collections, some say the Tom Reilly comic book collection of approximately 4000 issues dated from summer of 1939 thru the summer of 1945 stands as the "second best" of such-named collections after the legendary fabled Edgar Church collection fell in to the hands of Colorado-based dealer Chuck Rozanski and his wife half a decade later in the late 1970s. Many have voiced over the years that placed side by side the Reilly copies are whiter paper, brighter colors, hence, actually more desirable.

 

Doctor Arnheim and his wife lived in Moraga, Calif. They related to me Tom Reilly's parents lived in Piedmont, Calif, a sub-set of the larger city of Oakland, Calif.

 

Piedmont was for many decades the "Beverley Hills" of Oakland where wealthy white folks lived. It would take some one of financial means to purchase literally one of every comic book being published from Dec 1941 thru the summer of 1945 then placing them unread in to their son's bedroom awaiting his return from the Second World War.

 

Seems Tom had begun buying comic books in the summer of 1939 in time to have scored a Detective Comics #27. He enlisted the same week as Pearl Harbor in Dec 1941. Off in to the Pacific Theater he went going thru the entire war only to be killed in a kamikaze attack some time during the summer of 1945.

His grieving parents then sealed his room, themselves dying in Dec 1972. Three sets of relatives divided up the Reilly estate. The comic books were merely rough counted in to three same size batches. There was no rhyme nor reason what ended up in which batch. That much was evident with what was in each when they began to be sold to us.

 

When Doctor Arnheim and his wife brought the first third of this fabled collection to the Berkeleycon 73 we hosted in the ASUC Building on the UC-Berkeley campus on Sunday April 22 1973, there were two lost souls who first encountered these trusting old folks named Nick Marcus and Mike Manyak. Mike seemingly has attempted to pass himself off as some sort of expert on this collection. I find the concept laughable if that is indeed what has been transpiring

 

Nick and Mike flipped thru that first batch, pulled out all the Timely issues including Captain America #1 and proceeded to pay the unsuspecting owners all of a buck each. As in one dollar each for NM/M Timely issues.

 

I showed Doctor Arnheim the then current Overstreet comic book price guide #2 as others were trying to get these high grade comics dirt cheap. Ethics? You judge.

 

Doctor Arnheim was visibly upset when he asked me specifically to look up and inform him of the value of a NM Captain America #1. More Ethics? You be the judge on that note. Mayhaps ask Steve Carey. He is the one who steals things from others.

 

Upon hearing what a Captain America #1 actually was worth Dr Arnheim closed down any one looking thru the comics, got the ASUC building guy to wheel the pallet loader full of comics back down to their car and away they drove off.

 

A Keystone Cops antics scenario developed with some of us following them to their house where we talked with them. I left them that same copy of Overstreet #2. Also part of the "Keystone Kops" was David Belmont (then of Rochester NY) and Bob Selvig (then of Minneapolis area). They proceeded to wait in a motel near our Berkeley store located at 2512 Telegraph Ave.

 

A few days later as head vintage comics purchaser of our first comic book store Ye Olde Berkeley Comics Art Shoppe at the Arnheim house in Moraga Calif myself and Jon Campbell bought this collection for 40% of Guide. There were three "lots" involved of us with our store, Belmont and Selvig. We were up all night dividing up this batch of perfect shape mostly never read comic books.

 

A tip of the ice berg which turned out to be merely the first third of this estate because a week or so later another batch of relatives walked in an equal amount of high grade NM comics to sell to us. This time we at our Berkeley comic book store absorbed the entire batch all by ourselves.

 

When I say "we" I mean the late John Barrett, myself Robert Beerbohm and Bud Plant. We paid this second sets of relatives 60% of Overstreet #2 Guide.

 

At the time when sizing up what had been in Batch #1 and Batch #2 compared to what was NOT in both of these batches put together, one of the first things I said was there HAD to be more comic books.

 

About a month later a 3rd batch of relatives who lived back east walked in with another batch of well over a thousand mint Golden Age comic books. We paid 60% of Overstreet #3 as the "new" Guide had just been issued. Ethics? You judge.

 

Closer to 1300 or so was in each batch. Added up there were approx 4000 in total is the count I had made up extrapolating what Nick and Mike had "bought" in Timely issues from the Arnheims that hour or so the Arnheims were at the Berkeleycon on Sunday afternoon.

 

There was some duplication which is understandable when one of each was being sought awaiting the return of their son from the war. Who was actually keeping inventory control back in the 1940s over some funny books?

 

MOST of the Reilly copies had neither the lower back cover rubber stamp nor any sort of Gilboy Agency "G" pencil arrival dates. MOST reilly copies are lost in to the mists of time and mercantiling of collections over the decades since they surfaced.

 

Any one who knows any thing approaching a modicum of knowledge about comic book distributor inventory "control" back then knows on any given batch coming from ID to a periodical retailer mostly it was the top copy of any given batch of a title which had the "arrival" data and copy count on it.

 

The CGC people who continue to dub this "San Francisco" copies merely continue to display their ignorance of how the collection became to be dubbed thusly.

 

Along with other Bay Area comics dealers I was coming down from the Bay Area to the LA area setting up at shows. Then-novice LA dealer Ron Pussell (long before he moved to Nevada) was exclaiming "Frisco" copies - NOT San Francisco - at LA area shows like David T Alexander and Terry Stroud hosted Super Sundays then in the Hollywood area, or San Diego Comic-Con International shows. Ron was then smitten with a "Mile High" collection acquisition bug.

 

This is akin to ALL of the Los Angeles basin area simply being known as LA to those from northern Calif. The state is two different universes in all actuality.

 

I humbly submit that after 18 years of continuously being re-invited back thru the good graces of owner Steve Geppi in to the pages of Overstreet to teach proper comics business history, I just might know what I am talking about as some one who was "there" every step of the way when the Reilly collection surfaced as well as was sold off. It was the proceeds off the sale of this collection which led us expanding that first Comics & Comix Store #1 in to the USA's first comic book chain store operation with new stores in Lost San Francisco, San Jose and Sacramento by the end of that very summer.

 

There is more to this story. I merely post some of the highlights to a very thrilling experience of personally handling 7/9s of the Reilly collection. By the beginning of 1974 they were all sold off scattered to the four corners of the collecting world. The concept of "pedigree" was still half a decade away.

 

This is very helpful information....thanks

[Yellow Kid]

When Leonard Brown and I sent out our first list of comics for sale, Rick Durrell was the first person to respond. We all became friends because we all loved old comics. His wife, however, hated Rick and his collection because he spent all of his free time and money on the collection. After he died, she wanted to sell it all. I had made her a strong cash offer and she was on the verge of accepting it when she called me to say that someone else had just offered her a lot more, maybe 3X or 4X more, and she was going to sell it to him. I tried to explain that it simply wasn't possible for someone to pay her that much and she should be careful. She said it was so much because it wasn't a cash offer but rather a high percentage of the sales as the buyer was going to sell the collection piece by piece for a lot of money. What happened aftere that was horrible for her, but it proved once again that if something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. Gerber needed money to finish his great project, the books we revere him for, and he apparently didn't care how he got it.

 

I didn't know Fred White. However, the night before Leonard and Malcolm Willits opened their first store, they held a champagne reception for a handful of the leading collectors in the area and Fred White appears to be in some of the pictures of that event. Of course Rick Durrell was there as well, and several people I can't identify. Leonard is dead and Malcolm coiuld only remember one name. When I used some of the pictures in an article I wrote about Collectors Bookstore for the CBCA, I asked for help in identifying the other people in the picture but didn't get any responses. All I can really say is that as he was present at the reception, he was viewed as a serious collector.

 

 

[Mmehdy]

When Leonard Brown and I sent out our first list of comics for sale, Rick Durrell was the first person to respond. We all became friends because we all loved old comics. His wife, however, hated Rick and his collection because he spent all of his free time and money on the collection. After he died, she wanted to sell it all. I had made her a strong cash offer and she was on the verge of accepting it when she called me to say that someone else had just offered her a lot more, maybe 3X or 4X more, and she was going to sell it to him. I tried to explain that it simply wasn't possible for someone to pay her that much and she should be careful. She said it was so much because it wasn't a cash offer but rather a high percentage of the sales as the buyer was going to sell the collection piece by piece for a lot of money. What happened aftere that was horrible for her, but it proved once again that if something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. Gerber needed money to finish his great project, the books we revere him for, and he apparently didn't care how he got it.

 

I didn't know Fred White. However, the night before Leonard and Malcolm Willits opened their first store, they held a champagne reception for a handful of the leading collectors in the area and Fred White appears to be in some of the pictures of that event. Of course Rick Durrell was there as well, and several people I can't identify. Leonard is dead and Malcolm coiuld only remember one name. When I used some of the pictures in an article I wrote about Collectors Bookstore for the CBCA, I asked for help in identifying the other people in the picture but didn't get any responses. All I can really say is that as he was present at the reception, he was viewed as a serious collector.

 

 

Thanks for the info...I am aware of what caused that dispute but you put it much better, this board is the best in world...resources within resources...I wish she had taken your offer....I wonder how many SF books Geppi got?

Edited May 6, 2015 by Mmehdy

[Robot Man]

I wonder how many he still has???

[Mmehdy]

This is only hearsay...supposed geppi paid 3.5 million for everything....again don't quote me on it....but it certainly could have included his collection and any of the buy-backs from the auctions that might of occurred. I believe when times were tough for him he did sell some things on Ha.com..as well as some carl barks oil paintings to theo including the cover of the price guide( the only WB authorized painting by barks)

Edited May 6, 2015 by Mmehdy

[Robot Man]

Yeah, I know he was dumping a lot of stuff on eBay for a long time. I don't remember seeing any SF/Riley books though.

 

You don't hear much about Steve anymore. Hopefully, he got out of his money woes.

 

I met him at a couple of cons and he was very friendly and approachable. Very passionate collector. His museum is the "Sistine Chapel" of Junk!

[N e r V]

When Leonard Brown and I sent out our first list of comics for sale, Rick Durrell was the first person to respond. We all became friends because we all loved old comics. His wife, however, hated Rick and his collection because he spent all of his free time and money on the collection. After he died, she wanted to sell it all. I had made her a strong cash offer and she was on the verge of accepting it when she called me to say that someone else had just offered her a lot more, maybe 3X or 4X more, and she was going to sell it to him. I tried to explain that it simply wasn't possible for someone to pay her that much and she should be careful. She said it was so much because it wasn't a cash offer but rather a high percentage of the sales as the buyer was going to sell the collection piece by piece for a lot of money. What happened aftere that was horrible for her, but it proved once again that if something looks too good to be true, it probably isn't. Gerber needed money to finish his great project, the books we revere him for, and he apparently didn't care how he got it.

 

I didn't know Fred White. However, the night before Leonard and Malcolm Willits opened their first store, they held a champagne reception for a handful of the leading collectors in the area and Fred White appears to be in some of the pictures of that event. Of course Rick Durrell was there as well, and several people I can't identify. Leonard is dead and Malcolm coiuld only remember one name. When I used some of the pictures in an article I wrote about Collectors Bookstore for the CBCA, I asked for help in identifying the other people in the picture but didn't get any responses. All I can really say is that as he was present at the reception, he was viewed as a serious collector.

 

 

 

 

Exactly what did happen with the entire Rick Durrell collection?

 

I've always been impressed with his collection as one of the first, early serious collectors of books and grade. Mark Evanier mentioned he claimed to have had two dozen Action Comics #1's in his collection at one time.

 

My great uncle started his collection in the late 1940's and was also very condition aware early on tracking down earlier books he didn't own to add to his existing collection and as a kid I remember him mentioning crossing paths with Rick Durrell (I'm guessing at comic/book stores or those early cons). My great uncles collection remained intact but Rick Durrell seemed to have a massive collection with many multiples of books that finally got broken up.

 

Any details on how that happened?

[sacentaur]

Exactly what did happen with the entire Rick Durrell collection?

 

 

A contemporary collector and friend of Rick's told me that Gerber ended up charging the widow a bunch of bogus fees (in order to maximize his own profits), so she ultimately received only .10cents on the dollar for the entire collection.

 

She would have gotten a lot more money by accepting Yellow Kid's up front offer, but alas it was not meant to be.

 

If we're to learn any lessons from Rick Durrell's and Jerry Bails' widows, it is to protect the value of your collection (as best you can) for your inheritors.

[Mmehdy]

Exactly what did happen with the entire Rick Durrell collection?

 

 

A contemporary collector and friend of Rick's told me that Gerber ended up charging the widow a bunch of bogus fees (in order to maximize his own profits), so she ultimately received only .10cents on the dollar for the entire collection.

 

She would have gotten a lot more money by accepting Yellow Kid's up front offer, but alas it was not meant to be.

 

If we're to learn any lessons from Rick Durrell's and Jerry Bails' widows, it is to protect the value of your collection (as best you can) for your inheritors.

.

 

 

I Think today the top three auction houses are safest way to insure the maximum return which would protect your return. CC, HA, and CL were not there when Rick passed away.

[sfcityduck]

 

If we're to learn any lessons from Rick Durrell's and Jerry Bails' widows, it is to protect the value of your collection (as best you can) for your inheritors.

 

Which is why the long time (since the 60s) collectors I know with really extensive and marquee collections have already started liquidating their collections. The thinking is that they will (1) know better than their heirs how to maximize the value of the collection, (2) the extra income will enrich their retirement, and (3) they get the added fun of dealing the books, including making sure that some of their favorite books end up with the "right" owners. I think that's a really healthy attitude. You can't take it with you, and the process of liquidating can become as fun as the process of acquiring.

 

 

[N e r V]

That's probably good advice.

 

My great uncles collection however is currently in the hands of his son who continued the tradition and will one day make it to his sons hands making it the only three generation collection I ever heard of.

 

I still haven't figured out what to do with mine yet. Maybe when I get older I'll have a better idea?