Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 71 71

[Mike's Rack]

IMHO if someone chooses to invest in key comic books its not wrong or right but up to the person investing. If this concept is so foreign then why do people invest in futures of commodities all the time in hopes it goes up or down. Or someone choosing to invest in a countries currency - short or long. Its always a gamble in anything.

Capitalism needs to be taught.

 

I suspect this is what gamblers believe.

Well then you'd have to include most of the traders on wall street in that category too.

 

Yup, gamblers.

You gotta know when to hold 'em...

[N/A]

Know when to fold'm

[natevegas]

[N/A]

[IntoAnother]

 

Put me in coach!

[N/A]

Tag!

[Prince Namor]

IMHO if someone chooses to invest in key comic books its not wrong or right but up to the person investing. If this concept is so foreign then why do people invest in futures of commodities all the time in hopes it goes up or down. Or someone choosing to invest in a countries currency - short or long. Its always a gamble in anything.

Capitalism needs to be taught.

 

I suspect this is what gamblers believe.

 

I'm UP this year!

[N/A]

IMHO if someone chooses to invest in key comic books its not wrong or right but up to the person investing. If this concept is so foreign then why do people invest in futures of commodities all the time in hopes it goes up or down. Or someone choosing to invest in a countries currency - short or long. Its always a gamble in anything.

Capitalism needs to be taught.

 

I suspect this is what gamblers believe.

 

I'm UP this year!

 

I'm down in my gambling.

 

Bloody Patriots

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

 

Fair enough. I wouldn't categorize myself as smug, but if I came off that way, I get it.

 

As for my needing to save the universe, trust me, I don't have the time or inclination. I just found the movement on that particular book coinciding with that site's article to be more than a coincidence. As I said, the book was out 2-3 weeks with no discernible movement until that site mentioned why that book *should be* hot. At the time, they themselves said there were no copies on eBay (although that wasn't entirely true. There were copies, they just were selling for cover or not at all until they mentioned the book.) If you want to believe this book moved for other reasons, that's cool. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

Another site that I found that can have an impact on a books movement is Bleeding Cool.

 

I also understand many don't care why a book moves, they are just in it for the money. And that's cool too.

 

Yea

 

If a book moves because a "spec" site likes it, that's a bad reason to invest. If a book moves because of a media deal, key issue, or rarity, that's a good reason to invest.

 

If it's a comic book that's a bad reason to "invest".

 

+1

 

Every time someone uses the word 'invest' in regards to comics, I can't help but chuckle.

 

And 'movement', that's another one.

 

'Movement' "Some sucker on eBay bought a copy! Get yours ready!"

This +1000. Traditionally, an investment is something that generates income while it is held and speculation is something held in anticipation of gains when it is sold. So, comics, gold and tulips are not investments they are speculation. Bonds are an investment. Stocks could be either one. Neither is a bad thing, but the strategies for maximizing returns are different for each.

 

This is a great article, that helps explain the nuances in the distinction:

 

Investing vs. Speculating

 

QFT- "So, if you buy something with the expectation or hope that you can eventually sell it to someone else for more than you paid, that’s a speculation. ...

 

Overall, we can describe ourselves and the way we participate in the market any way we want. It’s more important to be aware of what exactly we are partaking in, and are honest with ourselves as to why we’re doing it. "

 

The key is that neither are "wrong" just different and apply different rules. If you look at your comics as a financial instrument, then you need to understand what sort of financial instrument they are and how best to maximize your return.

 

For me, I don't see comics as a financial instrument. They are a hobby. However, I don't have a problem with people that do see comics as a financial instrument and behave ethically toward that end. I like them because they buy my comics in which I have no interest.

 

For me, my investments are in my portfolio and my comics are in my closet

 

The article talks in circles really, basically how the author chose to phase things.

 

Investing: Pay yourself first

 

Well, the old way was easy to tell. An investment is something that pays you. So is real estate an investment? It can be. If you purchase a house or a building and then rent it out, the answer is yes. Of course, if the income doesn’t cover your expenses, then it’s a bad investment.

...

The same can be said of buying artwork, or any other collectible, and yes, even an education. You may get back what you put in, and maybe more. And then again, you may not. On the other hand, buying a business fits the classic definition. The caveat, of course is that that how “good” an investment depends on how much profit is derived from owning it.

Taken out of context, the quoted portion may seem confusing. However, the point is pretty straight forward, artwork and collectibles are generally not an investment because they don't pay income while you hold them. Any gains are realized on the back end when they are sold. But, they could be investments if they were able to generate income while you held them e.g. artwork in an art museum that generated revenue. But in the end, it's all semantics. I'm not here to defend the article. If someone wants to call them investments, I don't have a problem with that, I just don't agree with them.

By this reasoning any stock that doesn't pay a dividend is not an investment, but rather speculation. But I don't agree with that, since what the stock represents (ownership in a company) can be building value depending on the finances of the company. Of course some stocks are still very speculative when the expected value is built on too may ifs. I think liquidity is a key aspect in separating what is an investment vs. what is speculation. That's why I don't necessarily think that even modern keys with small print runs are "investments," because we don't know what the pool of potential buyers is going to look like down the road.

[Key Largo Comics]

Gotta agree with GeeksAreMyPeeps here. An income stream is not at all a requirement of something being considered an investment. Am I speculating if I buy shares of Twitter or Netflix or Facebook or any other multitude of growth stocks that don't pay a dividend?

 

If you believe in the outlook of the company and you are holding the shares for long-term capital appreciation then that absolutely is an investment.

[drotto]

Gotta agree with GeeksAreMyPeeps here. An income stream is not at all a requirement of something being considered an investment. Am I speculating if I buy shares of Twitter or Netflix or Facebook or any other multitude of growth stocks that don't pay a dividend?

 

If you believe in the outlook of the company and you are holding the shares for long-term capital appreciation then that absolutely is an investment.

 

You can invest in comic books it does work, but unlike what everyone though in the 90's (that every book was going to be magically valuable) is where people get caught. If you are buying high grade keys, they can be a good investment. Look at the explosion in value of things like Action Comics 1, AM15, etc. There is money to be made, but like most things you generally have to spend money to make money. If you are trying to flip variant covers, and speculating on what book may get hot due to a movie or TV deal you are going to get screwed

[Mike's Rack]

"The Modern View: We’re All Investors Now

In any case, the idea has become ingrained in the public’s psyche to the point where there’s rarely any argument over whether stocks are investments or not. ... But stripping away modern labels may give today’s market player a clearer understanding to what the game is all about, and perhaps, how better to play it." It's not so much the label as it is determining your strategy when playing the game.

[Iceman399]

Gotta agree with GeeksAreMyPeeps here. An income stream is not at all a requirement of something being considered an investment. Am I speculating if I buy shares of Twitter or Netflix or Facebook or any other multitude of growth stocks that don't pay a dividend?

 

If you believe in the outlook of the company and you are holding the shares for long-term capital appreciation then that absolutely is an investment.

 

Dot com stocks

 

I def wouldn't be using Twitter to state my argument.

[500Club]

Gotta agree with GeeksAreMyPeeps here. An income stream is not at all a requirement of something being considered an investment. Am I speculating if I buy shares of Twitter or Netflix or Facebook or any other multitude of growth stocks that don't pay a dividend?

+1

 

It's an arbitrarily narrow definition.

 

What really varies is the risk/reward profile. At some point, as the risk rises, you wander into the realm of pure speculation. That's where modern comics lie, IMHO.

[N/A]

"The Modern View: We’re All Investors Now

In any case, the idea has become ingrained in the public’s psyche to the point where there’s rarely any argument over whether stocks are investments or not. ... But stripping away modern labels may give today’s market player a clearer understanding to what the game is all about, and perhaps, how better to play it." It's not so much the label as it is determining your strategy when playing the game.

 

Now tell them not to buy a book and watch eBay sell out.

[Astoria]

Looks like the MOS18 9.8 train has stopped. If youre selling for more than 125-150.00 youll be holding for a loooong time again

 

It's not over yet.

 

 

 

Interesting piece here on MOS 18

 

http://comicbookinvest.com/2015/12/10/superman-man-of-steel-vol-1-18-1992-dc-comics/

 

Disclaimer:

 

Any opinions or expression of investments in this article should be used at the sole discretion and judgment upon the investor, not Astoria. So please use your own discretion when investing and have fun. The speculator not only has to be accountable for their gains and loses, but their own research as well.

 

Although my efforts have been utilized to ensure the accuracy of information in this article Astoria cannot be held liable for any inaccuracies contained within. Please help by nicely pointing out any errors, rather than the usual CGC grey-hair "thats wildly_fanciful_statement comments"

 

 

[kimik]

Looks like the MOS18 9.8 train has stopped. If youre selling for more than 125-150.00 youll be holding for a loooong time again

 

It's not over yet.

 

 

 

Interesting piece here on MOS 18

 

http://comicbookinvest.com/2015/12/10/superman-man-of-steel-vol-1-18-1992-dc-comics/

 

Disclaimer:

 

Any opinions or expression of investments in this article should be used at the sole discretion and judgment upon the investor, not Astoria. So please use your own discretion when investing and have fun. The speculator not only has to be accountable for their gains and loses, but their own research as well.

 

Although my efforts have been utilized to ensure the accuracy of information in this article Astoria cannot be held liable for any inaccuracies contained within. Please help by nicely pointing out any errors, rather than the usual CGC grey-hair "thats wildly_fanciful_statement comments"

 

 

 

I like the poster's comment at the bottom: "The comic market is nuts, if 17 is the first Doomsday then Web 18 is the first Venom."

[the authority]

Looks like the MOS18 9.8 train has stopped. If youre selling for more than 125-150.00 youll be holding for a loooong time again

 

It's not over yet.

 

 

 

Interesting piece here on MOS 18

 

http://comicbookinvest.com/2015/12/10/superman-man-of-steel-vol-1-18-1992-dc-comics/

 

Disclaimer:

 

Any opinions or expression of investments in this article should be used at the sole discretion and judgment upon the investor, not Astoria. So please use your own discretion when investing and have fun. The speculator not only has to be accountable for their gains and loses, but their own research as well.

 

Although my efforts have been utilized to ensure the accuracy of information in this article Astoria cannot be held liable for any inaccuracies contained within. Please help by nicely pointing out any errors, rather than the usual CGC grey-hair "thats wildly_fanciful_statement comments"

 

 

 

I like the poster's comment at the bottom: "The comic market is nuts, if 17 is the first Doomsday then Web 18 is the first Venom."

 

+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

[valiantman]

+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

Agreed. In an industry where Wolverine can be seen in full view and yell his own name at the Hulk in Hulk #180... it's still Hulk #181 that's the big one.

 

We get nothing remotely close to that in MOS #17. The Web of Spider-man #18 (or #24) example for Venom is a perfect comparison.

[AKA Rick]

 

Fair enough. I wouldn't categorize myself as smug, but if I came off that way, I get it.

 

As for my needing to save the universe, trust me, I don't have the time or inclination. I just found the movement on that particular book coinciding with that site's article to be more than a coincidence. As I said, the book was out 2-3 weeks with no discernible movement until that site mentioned why that book *should be* hot. At the time, they themselves said there were no copies on eBay (although that wasn't entirely true. There were copies, they just were selling for cover or not at all until they mentioned the book.) If you want to believe this book moved for other reasons, that's cool. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

Another site that I found that can have an impact on a books movement is Bleeding Cool.

 

I also understand many don't care why a book moves, they are just in it for the money. And that's cool too.

 

Yea

 

If a book moves because a "spec" site likes it, that's a bad reason to invest. If a book moves because of a media deal, key issue, or rarity, that's a good reason to invest.

 

If it's a comic book that's a bad reason to "invest".

 

+1

 

Every time someone uses the word 'invest' in regards to comics, I can't help but chuckle.

 

And 'movement', that's another one.

 

'Movement' "Some sucker on eBay bought a copy! Get yours ready!"

This +1000. Traditionally, an investment is something that generates income while it is held and speculation is something held in anticipation of gains when it is sold. So, comics, gold and tulips are not investments they are speculation. Bonds are an investment. Stocks could be either one. Neither is a bad thing, but the strategies for maximizing returns are different for each.

 

This is a great article, that helps explain the nuances in the distinction:

 

Investing vs. Speculating

 

QFT- "So, if you buy something with the expectation or hope that you can eventually sell it to someone else for more than you paid, that’s a speculation. ...

 

Overall, we can describe ourselves and the way we participate in the market any way we want. It’s more important to be aware of what exactly we are partaking in, and are honest with ourselves as to why we’re doing it. "

 

The key is that neither are "wrong" just different and apply different rules. If you look at your comics as a financial instrument, then you need to understand what sort of financial instrument they are and how best to maximize your return.

 

For me, I don't see comics as a financial instrument. They are a hobby. However, I don't have a problem with people that do see comics as a financial instrument and behave ethically toward that end. I like them because they buy my comics in which I have no interest.

 

For me, my investments are in my portfolio and my comics are in my closet

 

The article talks in circles really, basically how the author chose to phase things.

 

Investing: Pay yourself first

 

Well, the old way was easy to tell. An investment is something that pays you. So is real estate an investment? It can be. If you purchase a house or a building and then rent it out, the answer is yes. Of course, if the income doesn’t cover your expenses, then it’s a bad investment.

...

The same can be said of buying artwork, or any other collectible, and yes, even an education. You may get back what you put in, and maybe more. And then again, you may not. On the other hand, buying a business fits the classic definition. The caveat, of course is that that how “good” an investment depends on how much profit is derived from owning it.

Taken out of context, the quoted portion may seem confusing. However, the point is pretty straight forward, artwork and collectibles are generally not an investment because they don't pay income while you hold them. Any gains are realized on the back end when they are sold. But, they could be investments if they were able to generate income while you held them e.g. artwork in an art museum that generated revenue. But in the end, it's all semantics. I'm not here to defend the article. If someone wants to call them investments, I don't have a problem with that, I just don't agree with them.

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it. There's no prejudice nor humming and hawing by the buyers trying to negotiate you down.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box. Some will flat out refuse even for free ('tho you can donate 'em or give them away rather easily, but for this discussion about "Investing" it's not applicable an option to essentially throw an asset away)

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off. If you have a portfolio, it's easy to transfer those assets to your heirs in the event of your passing.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

Imagine yourself as a passionate collector with a huge collection in the sunset of their lives. When you want to sell off your collection with a huge value, you're going to have to figure out how to report that income. If you happen to not want to deal with it and is that proverbial winner, "the guy who dies with the most toys" and leaves your valued collection to a spouse or heirs who don't/didn't share the same passion and now need to liquidate, it becomes their burden. Not quite as bad as leaving a time share property in your will as a financial albatross, but you'd potentially turn over in your grave if your heirs saw your treasure as trash and dumped it or sold 'em off to an unscrupulous dealer offering fractional valued payouts, plus they'll have to deal with the capital gains.

 

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

Edited December 11, 2015 by AKA Rick