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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,788 posts in this topic

Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

Posted
Posted

 

Fair enough. I wouldn't categorize myself as smug, but if I came off that way, I get it.

 

As for my needing to save the universe, trust me, I don't have the time or inclination. I just found the movement on that particular book coinciding with that site's article to be more than a coincidence. As I said, the book was out 2-3 weeks with no discernible movement until that site mentioned why that book *should be* hot. At the time, they themselves said there were no copies on eBay (although that wasn't entirely true. There were copies, they just were selling for cover or not at all until they mentioned the book.) If you want to believe this book moved for other reasons, that's cool. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

Another site that I found that can have an impact on a books movement is Bleeding Cool.

 

I also understand many don't care why a book moves, they are just in it for the money. And that's cool too.

 

Yea :hi:

 

If a book moves because a "spec" site likes it, that's a bad reason to invest. If a book moves because of a media deal, key issue, or rarity, that's a good reason to invest.

 

If it's a comic book that's a bad reason to "invest". :gossip:

 

+1

 

Every time someone uses the word 'invest' in regards to comics, I can't help but chuckle.

 

And 'movement', that's another one.

 

'Movement' lol "Some sucker on eBay bought a copy! Get yours ready!"

This +1000. Traditionally, an investment is something that generates income while it is held and speculation is something held in anticipation of gains when it is sold. So, comics, gold and tulips are not investments they are speculation. Bonds are an investment. Stocks could be either one. Neither is a bad thing, but the strategies for maximizing returns are different for each.

 

This is a great article, that helps explain the nuances in the distinction:

 

Investing vs. Speculating

 

QFT- "So, if you buy something with the expectation or hope that you can eventually sell it to someone else for more than you paid, that’s a speculation. ...

 

Overall, we can describe ourselves and the way we participate in the market any way we want. It’s more important to be aware of what exactly we are partaking in, and are honest with ourselves as to why we’re doing it. " :preach:

 

The key is that neither are "wrong" just different and apply different rules. If you look at your comics as a financial instrument, then you need to understand what sort of financial instrument they are and how best to maximize your return.

 

For me, I don't see comics as a financial instrument. They are a hobby. However, I don't have a problem with people that do see comics as a financial instrument and behave ethically toward that end. I like them because they buy my comics in which I have no interest.

 

For me, my investments are in my portfolio and my comics are in my closet lol

 

The article talks in circles really, basically how the author chose to phase things.

 

Investing: Pay yourself first

 

Well, the old way was easy to tell. An investment is something that pays you. So is real estate an investment? It can be. If you purchase a house or a building and then rent it out, the answer is yes. Of course, if the income doesn’t cover your expenses, then it’s a bad investment.

...

The same can be said of buying artwork, or any other collectible, and yes, even an education. You may get back what you put in, and maybe more. And then again, you may not. On the other hand, buying a business fits the classic definition. The caveat, of course is that that how “good” an investment depends on how much profit is derived from owning it.

Taken out of context, the quoted portion may seem confusing. However, the point is pretty straight forward, artwork and collectibles are generally not an investment because they don't pay income while you hold them. Any gains are realized on the back end when they are sold. But, they could be investments if they were able to generate income while you held them e.g. artwork in an art museum that generated revenue. But in the end, it's all semantics. I'm not here to defend the article. If someone wants to call them investments, I don't have a problem with that, I just don't agree with them.

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box.

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

(worship) different asset - different rules
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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

Agreed. In an industry where Wolverine can be seen in full view and yell his own name at the Hulk in Hulk #180... it's still Hulk #181 that's the big one.

 

We get nothing remotely close to that in MOS #17. The Web of Spider-man #18 (or #24) example for Venom is a perfect comparison.

 

Actually it makes perfect sense.

 

Comics tell stories and Wolverine is not a part of the story in hulk 180. If a person wants to know how wolverine's story first began they need to read hulk 181.

 

If that same person only wants to see a meaningless picture of Wolverine in the last panel at the end of another story openly enticing the reader to buy the next issue so they can actually see his first adventure then they can save a ton of money and settle for a hulk 180.

 

-J.

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Iceman399

Iceman399

Posted
Posted
+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

Agreed. In an industry where Wolverine can be seen in full view and yell his own name at the Hulk in Hulk #180... it's still Hulk #181 that's the big one.

 

We get nothing remotely close to that in MOS #17. The Web of Spider-man #18 (or #24) example for Venom is a perfect comparison.

 

Actually it makes perfect sense.

 

Comics tell stories and Wolverine is not a part of the story in hulk 180. If a person wants to know how wolverine's story first began they need to read hulk 181.

 

If that same person only wants to see a meaningless picture of Wolverine in the last panel at the end of another story openly enticing the reader to buy the next issue so they can actually see his first adventure then they can save a ton of money and settle for a hulk 180.

 

-J.

 

Variant covers...yup they tell stories all right.

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Lazyboy

Lazyboy

Posted
Posted
+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

Agreed. In an industry where Wolverine can be seen in full view and yell his own name at the Hulk in Hulk #180... it's still Hulk #181 that's the big one.

 

We get nothing remotely close to that in MOS #17. The Web of Spider-man #18 (or #24) example for Venom is a perfect comparison.

 

But the common denominator is that they all have zero impact on the stories from their respective issues. They're all just teasers.

 

Anyway, why does nobody here ever seem to understand basic economics: Supply and Demand? Both matter and neither can be ignored in discussions about prices.

 

The difference between Hulk 180 and 181 in terms of print run and, likely, current supply is negligible. Starting with issue 18, Man of Steel quickly ballooned from a barely noticeable title on the charts to a top seller (how long it remained in that position is not relevant lol ).

 

The same thing applies to Jimmy Olsen (best and most popular series ever :insane: ) 134 and Forever People 1 (#1!!! the most important thing in 70s speculation) and that's ignoring that people like that Neal Adams guy.

 

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
+1 Always thought #17 being the big book wouldn't/won't last. It makes more since for #18, especially with him being on the cover, to be the top dog.

Agreed. In an industry where Wolverine can be seen in full view and yell his own name at the Hulk in Hulk #180... it's still Hulk #181 that's the big one.

 

We get nothing remotely close to that in MOS #17. The Web of Spider-man #18 (or #24) example for Venom is a perfect comparison.

 

Actually it makes perfect sense.

 

Comics tell stories and Wolverine is not a part of the story in hulk 180. If a person wants to know how wolverine's story first began they need to read hulk 181.

 

If that same person only wants to see a meaningless picture of Wolverine in the last panel at the end of another story openly enticing the reader to buy the next issue so they can actually see his first adventure then they can save a ton of money and settle for a hulk 180.

 

-J.

 

+1

 

Yep, back in the day, the only way to read that story was to get the issue, as there were no digital, trade paperbacks, or reprint's of Wolverine's first story for 12 years after it was first told.

 

Think about that.... if you wanted to read about Wolverine's first appearance, for 12 YEARS, the only way to do that was to track down IH 181.

 

IH 180? Pfft. That's no Wolverine story. I know it may be hard for some modern collector's to comprehend, but back then, the majority of people who collected, did so out of a love for the comics, to READ them.

 

That's why IH 181 is more valuable. Collectors wanted it to read about Wolverine.

 

It's not like these days when all of these 'collectibles' are simply manufactured to make money off of the less informed.

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Kyle R.

Kyle R.

Posted
Posted
Who cares about your personal opinions about man of steel 18?!?

 

Talk about comics heating up, is it that difficult?

 

Wrath 1. You're welcome.

 

Wraith....OLD NEWS

 

 

It will be back down to cover price within months...(maybe weeks).

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valiantman

valiantman

Posted
Posted

That's my point. Hulk 181 is more valuable than Hulk 180 BECAUSE of the story contents and the cover.

 

There's no argument for Man of Steel #17 to be more valuable than Man of Steel #18.

The print runs are so similar, and so much lower than Man of Steel #19, it's not a print run argument.

It's about the story contents and the cover. Man of Steel #18 wins hands down.

 

Those paying more for Man of Steel #17 are destined to be in the same boat as Hulk #180 buyers who paid more than Hulk #181.

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it. There's no prejudice nor humming and hawing by the buyers trying to negotiate you down.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box. Some will flat out refuse even for free ('tho you can donate 'em or give them away rather easily, but for this discussion about "Investing" it's not applicable an option to essentially throw an asset away)

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off. If you have a portfolio, it's easy to transfer those assets to your heirs in the event of your passing.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

Imagine yourself as a passionate collector with a huge collection in the sunset of their lives. When you want to sell off your collection with a huge value, you're going to have to figure out how to report that income. If you happen to not want to deal with it and is that proverbial winner, "the guy who dies with the most toys" and leaves your valued collection to a spouse or heirs who don't/didn't share the same passion and now need to liquidate, it becomes their burden. Not quite as bad as leaving a time share property in your will as a financial albatross, but you'd potentially turn over in your grave if your heirs saw your treasure as trash and dumped it or sold 'em off to an unscrupulous dealer offering fractional valued payouts, plus they'll have to deal with the capital gains.

 

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

 

Good stuff. I was thinking along the same lines when I wrote this:

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

Edited by rjrjr
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paul747

paul747

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it. There's no prejudice nor humming and hawing by the buyers trying to negotiate you down.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box. Some will flat out refuse even for free ('tho you can donate 'em or give them away rather easily, but for this discussion about "Investing" it's not applicable an option to essentially throw an asset away)

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off. If you have a portfolio, it's easy to transfer those assets to your heirs in the event of your passing.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

Imagine yourself as a passionate collector with a huge collection in the sunset of their lives. When you want to sell off your collection with a huge value, you're going to have to figure out how to report that income. If you happen to not want to deal with it and is that proverbial winner, "the guy who dies with the most toys" and leaves your valued collection to a spouse or heirs who don't/didn't share the same passion and now need to liquidate, it becomes their burden. Not quite as bad as leaving a time share property in your will as a financial albatross, but you'd potentially turn over in your grave if your heirs saw your treasure as trash and dumped it or sold 'em off to an unscrupulous dealer offering fractional valued payouts, plus they'll have to deal with the capital gains.

 

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

 

Good stuff. I was thinking along the same lines when I wrote this:

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

 

Is this true? If you make a profit on a book you don't have to pay taxes on it? can anyone explain this?

Edited by paul747
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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it. There's no prejudice nor humming and hawing by the buyers trying to negotiate you down.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box. Some will flat out refuse even for free ('tho you can donate 'em or give them away rather easily, but for this discussion about "Investing" it's not applicable an option to essentially throw an asset away)

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off. If you have a portfolio, it's easy to transfer those assets to your heirs in the event of your passing.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

Imagine yourself as a passionate collector with a huge collection in the sunset of their lives. When you want to sell off your collection with a huge value, you're going to have to figure out how to report that income. If you happen to not want to deal with it and is that proverbial winner, "the guy who dies with the most toys" and leaves your valued collection to a spouse or heirs who don't/didn't share the same passion and now need to liquidate, it becomes their burden. Not quite as bad as leaving a time share property in your will as a financial albatross, but you'd potentially turn over in your grave if your heirs saw your treasure as trash and dumped it or sold 'em off to an unscrupulous dealer offering fractional valued payouts, plus they'll have to deal with the capital gains.

 

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

 

Good stuff. I was thinking along the same lines when I wrote this:

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

 

Is this true? If you make a profit on a book you don't have to pay taxes on it? can anyone explain this?

 

You are suppose to report all income to the IRS:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11658852/ns/business-answer_desk/t/do-i-have-pay-tax-stuff-i-sell-ebay/#.VmtwMCCrRhE

 

In practice, however, few people do with regards to private sales. Supposedly, if you report it and it truly is a hobby, that is accounted for in the tax code. But, you cannot make a profit on the sale in order for it to be a hobby.

Edited by rjrjr
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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted

 

The biggest barrier not too many people discuss about with collectibles being investments and comparing them to the stock market is...

 

1) VALUE

 

A) With stocks, generally you can go online or to your broker, look at the buy/sell price and know the value. What people are asking, so you can buy at that price. What people are offering,so you can sell at that price.

 

The spread between the value price and the offer price usually isn't that wide, so, for example, right now AMAZON stock has a Bid Price of $649.94 for which you can sell it or right now, and an Ask Price of $650.50 for which you can buy it for right now.

 

B) With comics, there's price guides. The guide is a reference too, often not so accurate. It's not a catalog you can order from. It's not an offer sheet you can sell off of. You can go online to the CGC GPA or eBay "completed/sold" or any auction house's website to see historical precedent of sales figures, but you'll find wide ranges, so it's rather vague at times

 

The spread with comics is all over the map. Just because you see a book at a comic shop, convention or online with a price tag, does not mean that is the value. It's the sales price for which they are "asking" but the fact of the matter is it remains unsold as you see it in front of you, so it's somewhat clear that it's not the value, otherwise it would be sold. So, the "Bid Price" would be the price you could sell it for, and most dealers/resellers offer fractional amounts to their "Ask Price"

 

 

2) SELLING

 

A) With stocks, once you decide to sell, you can pull the trigger with your broker on most stocks (sans penny stocks on the sheets) and your sale will be complete within the day if you're willing to accept the stated market value.

 

If you have hundreds of positions and thousands of shares, it doesn't matter how many you have, you can generate revenue very quickly.

 

If you have junk stock that's fallen out of favor but still is listed and has value, you can sell it. There's no prejudice nor humming and hawing by the buyers trying to negotiate you down.

 

 

B) With comics, once you decide to sell, you'll have to find a buyer. Sure, you can dump product to get it snatched up quickly or sell at a discount to a dealer, but that's not actualizing maximum value nor profits (or often times losses).

 

If you have a collection of comic books, and you want to sell them to buy a house, therefore maximize your profits, you'll have to take a lot of time to sell each book one by one yourself, it's a laborious process. You not only have to wait and find the buyer, but if you sell on eBay for example, you need to take photos, write the listing and fulfill the product. If you are in liquidation mode, you'll fastly find out just how bad an investment collectibles can be if you need to sell everything, the trash with the treasure.

 

If you have books that went from cover price to dollar or quarter bin at the stores and you try to sell 'em to the stores, some will flat out reject buying them (dead inventory takes space, space equals rent, rent is an overhead cost) or offer you pennies on the dollar for which you paid, by the bulk like $0.10 each or $20 for a long box. Some will flat out refuse even for free ('tho you can donate 'em or give them away rather easily, but for this discussion about "Investing" it's not applicable an option to essentially throw an asset away)

 

 

3) TAXATION

 

A) With stocks, you have capital gains and losses, so if you pull out short there's a peripheral benefit of a tax write off. If you have a portfolio, it's easy to transfer those assets to your heirs in the event of your passing.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

Imagine yourself as a passionate collector with a huge collection in the sunset of their lives. When you want to sell off your collection with a huge value, you're going to have to figure out how to report that income. If you happen to not want to deal with it and is that proverbial winner, "the guy who dies with the most toys" and leaves your valued collection to a spouse or heirs who don't/didn't share the same passion and now need to liquidate, it becomes their burden. Not quite as bad as leaving a time share property in your will as a financial albatross, but you'd potentially turn over in your grave if your heirs saw your treasure as trash and dumped it or sold 'em off to an unscrupulous dealer offering fractional valued payouts, plus they'll have to deal with the capital gains.

 

 

4) STORAGE

 

A) With stocks, you don't typically hold your certificates, so it's held for you securely, shy of a technical fiasco, it's resistant to theft or damage. It's organized and easy to see what you have.

 

B) With comics and collectibles, you have to store your assets. Make room for them and put them in a safe environment to maintain the condition and organization. The bigger your collection gets, the more irritating it can be. If you have a small home and a family, it competes for space which would generally be assigned for necessities. It's exposed for theft or damage. If you want to insure it, that's another policy and fee you need to pay for. If you rent a storage locker, that's also overhead.

 

If you collect toys, action figures and statues, you'll probably be in worst shape in the future since they're so condition sensitive and often bulky, taking up room to store as well. I speak from the experience of having a garage full of $15 priced retail action figures that I see selling/offered with a $3 price tag and no buyers, and my ego is keeping me from taking a huge loss, for which I'd be better off donating them for a tax write off than putting forth the efforts to sell them one by one.

 

So, as you think of your comic book collection as your 401K or part of your investment portfolio, remember and keep in mind just how difficult it can be to turn your assets into cash when you need it.

 

Good stuff. I was thinking along the same lines when I wrote this:

 

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son.

 

B) With comics, if you take a bath on a book, you can't write it off, but in the same breath if you gain, you don't have to pay taxes on that, so long as it's hobby income and not scaled to a level where it's considered a business, then it's just like stocks to a degree, just a lot more paperwork to keep track of each transaction's acquisition cost and sales revenue.

 

 

Is this true? If you make a profit on a book you don't have to pay taxes on it? can anyone explain this?

 

You are suppose to report all income to the IRS:

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/11658852/ns/business-answer_desk/t/do-i-have-pay-tax-stuff-i-sell-ebay/#.VmtwMCCrRhE

 

In practice, however, few people do with regards to private sales. Supposedly, if you report it and it truly is a hobby, that is accounted for in the tax code. But, you cannot make a profit on the sale in order for it to be a hobby.

 

Technically collectible profits are taxable at a 28% rate in the USA. You are allowed to deduct initial purchase price as well as an work done to the item from that profit. For example, you buy a comic for $1000, spend $500 to restore it, and $60 to grade and slab it. You then sell the comic for $3000. You are allowed to report $1440 (profit after subtracting purchase, grading, and restoration) in profit, which is then taxed at 28%.

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