Action 5, CGC 9.4 blue on CLINK

[nearmint]

 

My earlier use of the term "flippers" was not correct as I was really referring to buyers who purchase books, surreptitiously manipulate them, and then resell them without any disclosure even though the work that was done is legally okay from CGC's point of view.

 

I use the word laundering because their very behaviour leaves the impression that is exactly what they are doing as evident by Jeff's comment below:

 

. I'm sure the 8.5 label will be submitted after the auction is over.

 

Since it's actually okay to press and resubmit books according to CGC, then I don't understand why they simply don't turn in the label at the time of resub, instead of waiting until the auction is over. This key difference in timing leaves the impression that the seller himself believes that what he is doing is not totally above board and honest. If he felt what he was doing is okay, shouldn't he also have the balls to MANNUP and turn in the old label up front instead of waiting until the auction is over.

 

 

Lou, you're proceeding from the assumption that the book's owner is the one that cracked it out, rather then the person pressing the book. My understanding from Matt is that he does send labels in, but who knows how often.

[lou_fine]

It was auctioned somelace, Clink maybe, as that was where I got the pic I posted earlier in the thread.

 

Amy idea as to the price that the 8.5 copy of Action #5 was able to sell for?

Didn't it hit like 50k

 

What's the cost for a Matt Nelson press job on a book lie this......$15 or $20?

 

Whatever the case, that's not a bad return on your investment if it sells for anywhere near (or even far from) $150K.

[nearmint]

It was auctioned somelace, Clink maybe, as that was where I got the pic I posted earlier in the thread.

 

Amy idea as to the price that the 8.5 copy of Action #5 was able to sell for?

Didn't it hit like 50k

 

What's the cost for a Matt Nelson press job on a book lie this......$15 or $20?

 

Whatever the case, that's not a bad return on your investment if it sells for anywhere near (or even far from) $150K.

 

$100 for every 10K of FMV, so probably $500.

[lou_fine]

It was auctioned somelace, Clink maybe, as that was where I got the pic I posted earlier in the thread.

 

Amy idea as to the price that the 8.5 copy of Action #5 was able to sell for?

Didn't it hit like 50k

 

What's the cost for a Matt Nelson press job on a book lie this......$15 or $20?

 

Whatever the case, that's not a bad return on your investment if it sells for anywhere near (or even far from) $150K.

 

$100 for every 10K of FMV, so probably $500.

 

Is there a maximum cap on pressing work similar to the maximum cap that CGC has for restoration?

 

What is the rationale for the increasing cost......proportionately more work and time spent pressing the book? I strongly doubt that and the real reason probably has more to do with the simple fact that the market will bear it.

[Cat-Man_America]

 

 

And BTW, I'm not letting CGC off the hook on this. Books that are cracked out and resubmitted (especially high grade GA books that have unique identifiers) should be caught by CGC regardless of the end grade.

 

I am not sure what you mean by your comment that these books should be caught by CGC. Are you implying that resubmissions should be flagged by CGC and marked accordingly? This would go against CGC's business model as their grading standards and grading practices have been formulated to encourage resubmissions. To do anything that would discourage resubmissions would not make any economic and/or business sense to them.

 

No, not at all. What I meant was that if we can look at scans of books and easily identify an 8.5 that is now a 9.4, then CGC graders who compile notes on these unique high-grade books should be able to make that jump as well and delete the vanished 8.5 from their census. Clearer now? (thumbs u

 

[lou_fine]

 

 

And BTW, I'm not letting CGC off the hook on this. Books that are cracked out and resubmitted (especially high grade GA books that have unique identifiers) should be caught by CGC regardless of the end grade.

 

I am not sure what you mean by your comment that these books should be caught by CGC. Are you implying that resubmissions should be flagged by CGC and marked accordingly? This would go against CGC's business model as their grading standards and grading practices have been formulated to encourage resubmissions. To do anything that would discourage resubmissions would not make any economic and/or business sense to them.

 

No, not at all. What I meant was that if we can look at scans of books and easily identify an 8.5 that is now a 9.4, then CGC graders who compile notes on these unique high-grade books should be able to make that jump as well and delete the vanished 8.5 from their census. Clearer now? (thumbs u

 

Sounds good to me as I don't have any problems with this approach. It seems silly to me why CGC would have to wait for a returned label if they already knew for sure that a particular book has been resubmited. It would make the census more accurate. (thumbs u

[Phill the Governor]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

[skypinkblu]

 

My earlier use of the term "flippers" was not correct as I was really referring to buyers who purchase books, surreptitiously manipulate them, and then resell them without any disclosure even though the work that was done is legally okay from CGC's point of view.

 

I use the word laundering because their very behaviour leaves the impression that is exactly what they are doing as evident by Jeff's comment below:

 

. I'm sure the 8.5 label will be submitted after the auction is over.

 

Since it's actually okay to press and resubmit books according to CGC, then I don't understand why they simply don't turn in the label at the time of resub, instead of waiting until the auction is over. This key difference in timing leaves the impression that the seller himself believes that what he is doing is not totally above board and honest. If he felt what he was doing is okay, shouldn't he also have the balls to MANNUP and turn in the old label up front instead of waiting until the auction is over.

 

 

Lou, you're proceeding from the assumption that the book's owner is the one that cracked it out, rather then the person pressing the book. My understanding from Matt is that he does send labels in, but who knows how often.

 

All I know is, I had one book pressed by Matt that was in a cgc case. Actually, it was restored already, and the pages were out of order, that was why I sent it to him, he suggested the pressing. He resubmitted it without the label, and when I asked where the label was (as it was a high $$ book and I wanted it OFF the census) he said he tossed it.

I think the census is wildly inaccurate. I've personally sold 2 books I know have been resubmitted and they were never taken off. I also own a book that is (or at least was at the time ) the highest copy at 6.5, the next highest copy on the census was a 4.5, yet a boarder SOLD a copy on the boards that was in-between those grades (I think it was 5.0) and much to my surprise, when I looked, it was not listed on the census

 

Most of my books are not CGC'd, so my examples are only a tiny tiny part of the whole picture.

[Aman619]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

[cheetah]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Reading is what reader copies are for.

[Matt Nelson]

 

My earlier use of the term "flippers" was not correct as I was really referring to buyers who purchase books, surreptitiously manipulate them, and then resell them without any disclosure even though the work that was done is legally okay from CGC's point of view.

 

I use the word laundering because their very behaviour leaves the impression that is exactly what they are doing as evident by Jeff's comment below:

 

. I'm sure the 8.5 label will be submitted after the auction is over.

 

Since it's actually okay to press and resubmit books according to CGC, then I don't understand why they simply don't turn in the label at the time of resub, instead of waiting until the auction is over. This key difference in timing leaves the impression that the seller himself believes that what he is doing is not totally above board and honest. If he felt what he was doing is okay, shouldn't he also have the balls to MANNUP and turn in the old label up front instead of waiting until the auction is over.

 

 

Lou, you're proceeding from the assumption that the book's owner is the one that cracked it out, rather then the person pressing the book. My understanding from Matt is that he does send labels in, but who knows how often.

 

I usually do submit the old label with the books, sometimes I do not. It all depends on the situation. But if I don't, will gather them up at some point and send them to CGC to remove from the census.

 

I'm a strong supporter of an accurate census, and go to great lengths to make sure CGC eventually gets all of their old tags. Even though there might be some important old labels that never got back to CGC over the years, I wouldn't say CGC's census is wildly inaccurate. There's not many people cracking out expensive books. I know many of them, and we all agree that getting the old grades off the census is in everyone's best interest. More copies on the census simply means more percieved supply, which can adversely affect a book's value.

 

But there can be many reasons why a tag would not go back with the book when it's submitted to CGC a second time.

[comicdonna]

 

My earlier use of the term "flippers" was not correct as I was really referring to buyers who purchase books, surreptitiously manipulate them, and then resell them without any disclosure even though the work that was done is legally okay from CGC's point of view.

 

I use the word laundering because their very behaviour leaves the impression that is exactly what they are doing as evident by Jeff's comment below:

 

. I'm sure the 8.5 label will be submitted after the auction is over.

 

Since it's actually okay to press and resubmit books according to CGC, then I don't understand why they simply don't turn in the label at the time of resub, instead of waiting until the auction is over. This key difference in timing leaves the impression that the seller himself believes that what he is doing is not totally above board and honest. If he felt what he was doing is okay, shouldn't he also have the balls to MANNUP and turn in the old label up front instead of waiting until the auction is over.

 

 

Lou, you're proceeding from the assumption that the book's owner is the one that cracked it out, rather then the person pressing the book. My understanding from Matt is that he does send labels in, but who knows how often.

 

I usually do submit the old label with the books, sometimes I do not. It all depends on the situation. But if I don't, will gather them up at some point and send them to CGC to remove from the census.

 

I'm a strong supporter of an accurate census, and go to great lengths to make sure CGC eventually gets all of their old tags. Even though there might be some important old labels that never got back to CGC over the years, I wouldn't say CGC's census is wildly inaccurate. There's not many people cracking out expensive books. I know many of them, and we all agree that getting the old grades off the census is in everyone's best interest. More copies on the census simply means more percieved supply, which can adversely affect a book's value.

 

But there can be many reasons why a tag would not go back with the book when it's submitted to CGC a second time.

What are some of the reasons why a tag would not go back with the book when it's submitted to CGC a second time?

 

[Matt Nelson]

Some time ago there was a big coin collector had been playing the crackout game for years, and had been saving up his old labels. Big, big coins, and multiples too. At some point his dad was cleaning and tossed out ALL of the labels before a single one went back to the grading companies. The guy was just beside himself. Can you imagine?

[Matt Nelson]

1. standards are looser.

2. the book makes a huge improvement.

3. restoration was removed.

4. some people think the graders see it, and don't want to influence their decision. This ties in with #1,2, and 3 too.

 

Just to name a few. These are not necessarily my reasons; I get many different requests to hold the tags back.

[adamstrange]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all some of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Aman619]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all some of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

 

arrrrghhh. right you are matey! theres always one that disproves a hasty generalization!

[tth2]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all some of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Fixed that for you.

You buy slabbed books all the time, and then you crack them out as a matter of course. I buy slabbed books and could crack them out anytime if I had suddenly had a great desire to hold the raw book or read the story (although in the latter case why I wouldn't just read a reader copy, I don't know). Same difference.

[Cat-Man_America]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all some most of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Fixed that for you.

 

Upon final inspection, even more construction work was needed; grade should be smoother now.

[buttock]

This whole thread is testament to why I think the whole idea of of CGC book is crazy. Yes, i understand the whole piece of mind, know what I'm paying for thing, but with so much manipulation going on, I think people have forgotten what collecting comic books is all about. I have comics in NM shape that I wouldn't dare read, but I CAN, because after all, whats the point of owning a comic book if you can't flip it over and check out the story? Thats my .

 

Philip --- better check with your ISP because your post must have gotten lost on the intertubes for 10 years!!

 

 

seriously, Im kidding you, but all of us here have long ago gotten over the "I cant read my slabbed books" thing and have closets full of slabs we initially never thought we ever want.

 

Not all of us...

[Phill the Governor]

Look, maybe what I meant to say is that I find there to be too many inconsistencies in CGCs grading to justify spending that much more on a comic that I can spend x times less on in Raw condition. Does that make more sense?