9.2 versus 9.6 Ethics versus Reality.

[fantastic_four]

That's a little naive FF. Who said the dealer was crooked? You assume he is. The dealer felt that the book was a NM+ book and priced it accordingly.

 

I don't know what the actual facts of the situation in question are...I was referring to the attitude you described, the one arguing that dealers aren't obligated to have professional ethics.

[deathlok]

That's a little naive FF. Who said the dealer was crooked? You assume he is. The dealer felt that the book was a NM+ book and priced it accordingly.

 

I don't know what the actual facts of the situation in question are...I was referring to the attitude you described, the one arguing that dealers aren't obligated to have professional ethics.

 

Are they obligated to have professional ethics? Does that come with a Diamond membership?

[fantastic_four]

Are they obligated to have professional ethics? Does that come with a Diamond membership?

 

[sterlingcomics]

Are they obligated to have professional ethics? Does that come with a Diamond membership?

 

 

[fantastic_four]

 

He doesn't just LOOK like a wiseguy...he SOUNDS like one, too!

[deathlok]

 

He doesn't just LOOK like a wiseguy...he SOUNDS like one, too!

 

I wish I had dreams of your world.....

[Kramerica]

There are two things I've come away from this discussion knowing:

 

1) Y'all have given me a big headache

 

2) I'd love to see Vincent from Metropolis hawking .25 comics as described by Noel Spartacus

 

In any event I need some beer, some live blues and some beer.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

So we are supposed to put 15% of our incomes towards our collections?

Seriously while some degree of financial planning makes sense, and there is alot to be said for not incurring debt unrelated to a home mortgage, I think the personal finance industry works to scare the bejesus out of people who aren't saving a good chunk of their income. If you spend your entire working life being parsimonious with luxury expenses, and you retire with those millions in the bank, you will still be reluctant to part with money out of habit and deny yourself to the grave. I'm not advocating spending money just to keep up appearances - my car is 12 years old and I could easily afford a new one - but don't be afraid to spend money now on what brings you joy.

 

I am not certain if your first sentence is a typo or if you misread the quote (or if it is in jest), but it's supposed to be 15% of your income towards your savings. That amount is up to you really. The point I was trying to make is that the kid has poor spending habits, which I doubt that anyone can refute. I had some misgivings about posting this quote because I was afraid that it may drag the entire thread off topic. However, since this point has been addressed, it might as well be clarified. No where in my entire post does it say that an individual should just eke out a meager existance and deny yourself simple joys. I highly doubt that the finance industry is trying to scare people into saving their income, but something can be said for a country where over 2 million people filed for bankruptcy in 2003 alone. The demise of Social Security is nigh inevitable. The number of credit counseling agencies quadrupled from 1992 to 2002. Don't be afraid to spend money now on what brings you joy, but don't go buying X-Men 101 advertised as 9.6 without checking to see if it is REALLY a 9.6.

 

By the way, the 15% thing is just a statistic and perhaps a good guideline. Not everyone has the goal of becoming a millionaire, but for those of you who want to start trying, this is a good place to begin.

[deathlok]

There are two things I've come away from this discussion knowing:

 

1) Y'all have given me a big headache

 

2) I'd love to see Vincent from Metropolis hawking .25 comics as described by Noel Spartacus

 

In any event I need some beer, some live blues and some beer.

 

thanks for adding something meaningful to the topic.

[Aman619]

The demise of Social Security is nigh inevitable. The number of credit counseling agencies quadrupled from 1992 to 2002. Don't be afraid to spend money now on what brings you joy, but don't go buying X-Men 101 advertised as 9.6 without checking to see if it is REALLY a 9.6.

 

and dont forget that interest rates are gonna skyrocket, homes will be in foreclosure, and The Great Crash is coming too!

 

sorry couldnt resist. Its been a few weeks since the last crash thread and I pretty much passed on that one. Seriously, though, its the Ant and teh Grasshopper. Your choice: live it up now and maybe eat cat food when youre seventy. or save some money for a comfortable retirement. Youre going to BE 70, believe it or not, so why not plan ahead??

 

bottom line, when youre 20, 30, 40 50, 60, 0r 70 years old today, everyday is NOW. Id rather eat well NOW, than remember some great $200 fancy dinner I had 40 years ago.....

[FFB]

Let's pose the following scenario. I, the owner of Metropolis, buy a book from a collector at a convention. Let's say the book is a Hulk #181. The collector states that he grades the book at NM. The book looks sharp so I buy it. I have it graded. The book is graded by the people who work at CGC at VF/NM. Can I call up the original seller and say "Hey, Mike. Had that Hulk #181 graded by CGC. Came back at VF/NM. I would like to return it now. What is the best address to send it back to you. Don't worry. I will cover the return postage." Is this unreasonable? Again, IMO, it does not matter who the buyer is and it does not matter who the seller is. The same standards should apply for everyone.

 

What a can of worms.

 

I would assume the OS Grading Guide is the basis used by both parties in determining the grade before the purchase. Regardless of CGC's outcome you were both in agreement as to the grade "NM" based on OS standards. Done deal.

 

Now, had the collector stated the book was a 9.4, inferring CGC, and you agreed it was a sharp copy, sent it in and received back a CGC 9.0, then I believe you should be able to return it. The seller is stating they know what a CGC 9.4 is, and you the buyer, having no literature on CGC's grading standards, are buying that book as a 9.4.

 

The VF/NM in your example got me thinking. If a CGC 9.2 is NM- and a CGC 8.5 is a VF+, WTF is a 9.0 VF/NM? I didn't think there was anything between a VF+ and a NM-?

 

CRC

 

CRC, you REALLY need to drop the old Overstreet Grading Guide and buy the updated version.

[FFB]

The specifics of this transaction aside, as a general rule, is it unreasonable to think that a dealer who honestly tries to grade his books correctly and cares about customer satisfaction should stand by his grading standards within +/- .2 (or .5 below 9.0)? Is that realistic in terms of how close the pros can consistently get to the CGC number here, or do even the good ones routinely miss by .4 or more?

 

Who says the dealer "missed" the grade? Maybe he's accurate and CGC undergraded the book. Or maybe the KID DAMAGED IT after he bought it.

[FFB]

Borock

 

With all due respect, we are discussing a serious topic here. CGC and comic grading. Something you know nothing about. Now take your ball and go home. Your out of your league son.

When I spot a topic more appropriate for you, like the best strip clubs in Florida or the sex life of Warren Reece, I will be sure to call on you.

 

 

Stephen F.

 

[FFB]

I was curious so I asked, “What lessons have you learned”.

Do you know what the answer from the kid was????

NEVER TRUST A COMIC BOOK DEALER, EVER AGAIN. He says “I lost a large amount of money because I trusted someone who is supposed take care of me as a customer in both grading and advice when I come in his store. Instead, I end up with a sticker grade that a "Maybe" and get hurt for lots of money. So much for comic books.

Interesting words huh?

 

The kid’s problem is only a mirror of what many of us are dealing with today.

 

Pardon me while I play the bad guy again.

 

The kid's problem is that he had dollar signs in his eyes when he saw a 9.6 for sale for $460. He thought he'd get it graded and it would be worth $750 (leaving the dealer short $300).

 

What did this "poor kid" really want? A copy of X-Men #101? Or a CGC slab with a 9.6 on it? I don't buy his sob story about wanting the book because of watching X-Men 2. If that were the case, he would have just bought the book and probably would not have sent it to CGC. This kid is way too sophisticated (if he's sending books in to CGC in the first place) to be as dumb as he's pretending to be.

 

He wants to leave the hobby? Buh-bye. All he cares about is the money anyway.

[rjpb]

I am not certain if your first sentence is a typo or if you misread the quote (or if it is in jest)

 

It was in jest - I guess I should have used an icon, I began the next sentence with "Seriously" but should have followed with a "though".

As to the other points in your reply - while I think it's a stretch to say that the demise of social security is nigh inevitable, I will agree that plenty of people mismanage their own money, the running credit card debt in this country averages well over $3000 per person. However,I do believe that the financial services industry overstates the amount most people will need to have saved for retirement in order to enjoy it, but it is their job to sell their services, and those services have value to many Americans. It seems we're in a world where half the country is worried they'll never get out from under their debtload, while the other half worries whether they are saving enough for retirement.

Of course, if everyone stopped spending foolishly our consumer based economy would collapse, wiping out the savings of the frugal. I'm sure there is a happy medium out there somewhere, but the hell if I know where it is.

I wasn't addressing the wisdom of the X-men purchase at all.

[FFB]

Well said, Chuck.

 

When I was a pledge at my fraternity, one of the brothers told me something that I though was extremely profound. He told me, "It is not pain which causes your suffering, it is your attitude towards that pain which causes your suffering." There were many lessons to be learned in this situation, but this is the one that the kid choose to take home. The sad fact is, if something like this happened again somewhere else, he WILL lose money again. I think that the dealer should actually be COMMENDED for returning some of the money whereas he had no obligation to do so at all.

 

Individuals suffer traumatic experiences all the time and this one pales in comparison to some of the other horrors that some younger kids face. If this is the worst thing that ever happens to this kid in his pre-adult life, then he is luckier than 99% of the individuals in the world. The saddest fact to this whole story is that he is still not mature enough to accept even partial responsibility for his mistake. If he cannot learn a proper lesson from this experience, then the cycle of pain and suffering will continue.

[FFB]

Im surprised by many of the cold hearted responses here from comics collectors, who, if if it were THEM in this kid's shoes, would (if answering honestly) be starting their own threads here bashing the dealer and seeking sympathy and methods of seeking recompense!! Right?

 

Wrong. I recently bought a nice copy of a silver age sleeper key from a well known dealer. The book was sold to me as a 9.0. When it arrived, I thought the 9.0 was iffy, but possible. Maybe an 8.5. So I didn't send the book back because I was reasonably satisfied with the grade.

 

A few months later, I send the book in to CGC for grading. It comes back an 8.0 because of a stain that I didn't see on the dark cover. The book is now worth about a third of what I paid for it.

 

Did I demand a refund? No. Did I start a thread about it to bash the seller? No. I was satisfied with the grade given to the book when I received it, so I kept the book. The fact that CGC disagreed with that grade does not mean that I now "don't like" a book that I liked before I sent it in.

[BassGMan]

I was satisfied with the grade given to the book when I received it, so I kept the book. The fact that CGC disagreed with that grade does not mean that I now "don't like" a book that I liked before I sent it in.

 

Well said Scott. It appears from reading posts on these boards that unfortunately the opposite DOES happen. Somebody buys a book because they like the copy and assumed grade, sends it in to CGC, gets the book back lower than expected, and now it's "garbage". HUH? If it's a PLOD then maybe, but just a lower grade? Like it before CGC then why not like it just as much after? I believe it is because some collectors have a minimum set grade that they are happy with. Go below that and your book is now garbage and must be sold. -----Sid

[CompleteRunComics]

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Let's pose the following scenario. I, the owner of Metropolis, buy a book from a collector at a convention. Let's say the book is a Hulk #181. The collector states that he grades the book at NM. The book looks sharp so I buy it. I have it graded. The book is graded by the people who work at CGC at VF/NM. Can I call up the original seller and say "Hey, Mike. Had that Hulk #181 graded by CGC. Came back at VF/NM. I would like to return it now. What is the best address to send it back to you. Don't worry. I will cover the return postage." Is this unreasonable? Again, IMO, it does not matter who the buyer is and it does not matter who the seller is. The same standards should apply for everyone.

 

 

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What a can of worms.

 

I would assume the OS Grading Guide is the basis used by both parties in determining the grade before the purchase. Regardless of CGC's outcome you were both in agreement as to the grade "NM" based on OS standards. Done deal.

 

Now, had the collector stated the book was a 9.4, inferring CGC, and you agreed it was a sharp copy, sent it in and received back a CGC 9.0, then I believe you should be able to return it. The seller is stating they know what a CGC 9.4 is, and you the buyer, having no literature on CGC's grading standards, are buying that book as a 9.4.

 

The VF/NM in your example got me thinking. If a CGC 9.2 is NM- and a CGC 8.5 is a VF+, WTF is a 9.0 VF/NM? I didn't think there was anything between a VF+ and a NM-?

 

CRC

 

 

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CRC, you REALLY need to drop the old Overstreet Grading Guide and buy the updated version.

 

Your telling me, It's top priority.

 

CRC

[MarkBrown-migration]

It also doesn't need clueless kids buying CGC 9.6 copies of X-Men #101 at X3 Movie Hype nosebleed prices and then leaving the hobby in disgust when their "can't miss investment" goes sour.

 

You don't know that he intended to ever flip it, he might just be an x-men fan who liked the look of phoenix and wanted a high grade copy of that book for his collection and saw CGC as a way of keeping it nice, i have had worthless books graded just because they were important to ME and i don't want the chipmonks to be able to eat them