The stigma of the purple label

[HarryRod]

I want to bring up something in a dedicated thread that i have seen discussed from time to time here, but never given any serious discussion.

Why is there such as stigma against restored comics?

I can understand it against comics that have amateur things like marker as color touch, or non-archival glue, but i am really more concerned about the animosity against the "PLOD" for older and key books.

 

What got me thinking of this was another thread on the boards here about a member who had an X-Men #1 restored with a new masthead. Definitely a major restoration job, but if he were to go and sell it I am almost certain he would get lowballed back to the stone age, because of the restoration.

 

Ours is the only hobby i have found where a good professional restoration job is held against a book. However, not to open up this can of worms, I can tape a spine back together, and make bookoo bucks off of the right book by doing it.

Comics are art....no matter what anyone else says. Why is this one of the only artistic mediums that i have ever seen or heard about where PROFESSIONAL restoration is frowned upon so heavily in regards to value.

 

To put it into perspective......the Mona Lisa......would we consider it more valuable if it had never had any professional restoration or cleaning over the years and instead we had let it degrade into nothingness?

 

How is this analogy any different than an Action Comics #1 that unrestored, may be a 1.0, with a detached cover, a major rip and some water damage, but after spending a couple grand on a real professional restoration we have a 5.0 with the ever feared PLOD!

I have seen many collectors, both here and in the real world, who would rather have the 1.0 in condition, than a very presentable and IMHO more valuable 5.0 PLOD

 

If I could be put in charge of CGC for a day i would have them do away with the PLOD and GLOD and just have a blue label (or yellow for sig) and notate any resto work or qualifications.

 

What say ye? Am i alone in my principles on this one?

[TSwift25]

Let me preface this by saying I have no problem with restoration, but the types of restoration and the collectibles themselves are totally different. Comics have value because of scarcity, the more there are, in theory, the less valuable. The Mona Lisa is one of a kind. If that X-Men 1 were the one and only, then yes, restoration wouldn't be as big of a deal.

 

Now, when you talk about restored books with minor work done going for a fraction of unrestored, or the inevitable can of worms that, at some point, a lot of the older books will need some work to "survive" that's a discussion I'd love to see develop.

[Dr. Balls]

Quick question:

 

If I buy an X-Men 1 @ 1.8 for $900, pay someone $900 to restore it through various means, and it turns into a 6.0 - doesn't that mean that the book is still only worth $1800 dollars?

 

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

[jools&jim]

I want to bring up something in a dedicated thread that i have seen discussed from time to time here, but never given any serious discussion.

As far as I can tell, the last time this was never discussed was about 6 months ago: several of the responses were quite serious and well-reasoned:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5616479&fpart=1

 

People like what they like, want what they want, and vote accordingly with their $$. Doesn't seem like there's much else to say beyond that...

[TSwift25]

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

 

Depends on the book, depends on the work.

[dupont2005]

Before CGC I bet a lot of this resto was passed on undisclosed. Someone who had bought a key comic some time before professional restoration detection would have been available to him finally submits it for grading and discovers he was ripped off, I can see that souring purple labels entirely for the guy. Also, why encourage those who would chop up comics for profit anyway?

[TSwift25]

Before CGC I bet a lot of this resto was passed on undisclosed. Someone who had bought a key comic some time before professional restoration detection would have been available to him finally submits it for grading and discovers he was ripped off, I can see that souring purple labels entirely for the guy. Also, why encourage those who would chop up comics for profit anyway?

 

Trimming is a different argument. I think the stigma is rightfully attached there.

[revat]

i think the 'art' example is a bit off because things like Mona Lisa are unique.

 

But I think a basic example that is of use to me is thinking like a car, even an expensive one.

 

Would I rather have a Rolls Royce, fresh from production, where a lot of (if not most) of it is put together by hand by Rolls Royce dealers?

 

Or would I rather have that same Rolls Royce after it has been in an accident but repaired by a master mechanic and body guy.

 

Or am I indifferent? Lets assume both have the same mileage, 20 miles. Which would I pay more for?

 

I think thats the basic premise behind this the discrepancy, the rest is market variables.

[Dr. Balls]

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

 

Depends on the book, depends on the work.

 

Oh, well - then. This thread is over. I couldn't have imagined that the price of a restored comic is affected by the kind of book it is and what work has been done. Thank you for that amazing insight, I have not heard anything so profound since I saw Mystery Men.

[TSwift25]

(Thumbs u

[ChrisInBaltimore]

I think there are a lot of things at play here. What kind of restoration are we talking about, and to what extent? If someone trims a cover than I would have no interest in that.

 

Color touch is another tricky thing too. If a professional does some quality cover touch I'm fine with it. If some hack comes along and bleeds color through the book to make the cover a little nicer than I'm not interested. I just bought a cheaper Silver Age book with some color touch. I'm curious to see it when it arrives. It was a good price and I only wanted it for a reader.

 

From what I've seen, the stigma is fading too. People take their work seriously and quality restoration is going on.

 

And on your last point: I love the different color labels. I don't think they should go anywhere.

[sterlingcomics]

Quick question:

 

If I buy an X-Men 1 @ 1.8 for $900, pay someone $900 to restore it through various means, and it turns into a 6.0 - doesn't that mean that the book is still only worth $1800 dollars?

 

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

 

IMO, the answer as to the "value" is hypothetical---the "realized value" is the same answer as an unrestored book---and that is "what will someone pay for it".

[jmg3637]

ABout the most I ever spent for a single comic was for this copy of X-men 1

 

It was a combination of time payments with both cash and trade. Took me over a year to finish paying it off.

 

This was from Mike of Collectors Dream that used to be in the West part of the San Fernando Valley prior to disappearing overnight due to a dispute with his landlord.

 

 

Anyway he sold it to me as a NM copy. Even though I am not a Marvel guy I considered it my best book until i hand delivered it to CGC at WWLA. It came back as a PLOD 8.5 Slight Professional.

 

If it was a real 8.5 I would have done nicely over the 10+ years I owned it. Any guess as to it's value now? I highly doubt I could even get my original purchase price out of it now.

[dupont2005]

^ That's the kind of story that really bums me out

[VintageComics]

I want to bring up something in a dedicated thread that i have seen discussed from time to time here, but never given any serious discussion.

As far as I can tell, the last time this was never discussed was about 6 months ago: several of the responses were quite serious and well-reasoned:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5616479&fpart=1

 

People like what they like, want what they want, and vote accordingly with their $$. Doesn't seem like there's much else to say beyond that...

 

It's a topic that has been beaten to death but the last time we discussed it in great detail is right here just a few weeks ago.

 

Starting with Bookery's post, he questions the validity of a 72 point grading system (24 points per colour label x 3 different coloured labels).

 

There was lots going on in that thread: accusations, defensations, persperations and salutations...and probably some congratulations via PM.

 

It was a very informative discussion though, that looked at things in a lot of detail bringing in perspectives from outside our own hobby where our own perspective can be a little "hobby-centric".

 

I'd recommend you guys give it a read. It covers a lot of great points.

 

 

[VintageComics]

Quick question:

 

If I buy an X-Men 1 @ 1.8 for $900, pay someone $900 to restore it through various means, and it turns into a 6.0 - doesn't that mean that the book is still only worth $1800 dollars?

 

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

 

The way I personally would value a restored book is try to figure out what the book is worth before the restoration and then maybe add a little value for improved eye appeal if that floats your boat. to do that though, you'd need to know how to grade and spot resto reasonably well.

 

It's because restoration is a bit of a hidden, arcane art form it scares people off and because it has that scary, unknown stigma people shy away from it causing restored books to sell for prices that looks unreasonably cheap to people who know a little about resto.

 

 

[bababooey]

ABout the most I ever spent for a single comic was for this copy of X-men 1

 

It was a combination of time payments with both cash and trade. Took me over a year to finish paying it off.

 

This was from Mike of Collectors Dream that used to be in the West part of the San Fernando Valley prior to disappearing overnight due to a dispute with his landlord.

 

 

Anyway he sold it to me as a NM copy. Even though I am not a Marvel guy I considered it my best book until i hand delivered it to CGC at WWLA. It came back as a PLOD 8.5 Slight Professional.

 

If it was a real 8.5 I would have done nicely over the 10+ years I owned it. Any guess as to it's value now? I highly doubt I could even get my original purchase price out of it now.

I normally only offer help to "Marvel guys" but you could probably get the CGC notes and see if one of the restoration gurus on these boards could advise you if it's possible to remove slight professional resto without taking the book down too many notches.

 

[Sqeggs]

From casual watching of Antiques Roadshow, it appears that the market value of some collectibles is improved by restoration and some is ruined. For instance, apparently refinishing antique furniture is a no no, but repairing tears in old maps or repairing damaged antique rugs is encouraged. Don't know if there is rhyme or reason to these differences.

[jmg3637]

It looks like most of the grader's notes made it onto the label

 

It says "Restoration includes: small amount of color touch on cover, cover cleaned, cover reinforced, re-glossed."

 

It does not look like those can be reversed. any estimates on what it is worth?

 

At least it looks nice.

 

ABout the most I ever spent for a single comic was for this copy of X-men 1

 

It was a combination of time payments with both cash and trade. Took me over a year to finish paying it off.

 

This was from Mike of Collectors Dream that used to be in the West part of the San Fernando Valley prior to disappearing overnight due to a dispute with his landlord.

 

 

Anyway he sold it to me as a NM copy. Even though I am not a Marvel guy I considered it my best book until i hand delivered it to CGC at WWLA. It came back as a PLOD 8.5 Slight Professional.

 

If it was a real 8.5 I would have done nicely over the 10+ years I owned it. Any guess as to it's value now? I highly doubt I could even get my original purchase price out of it now.

I normally only offer help to "Marvel guys" but you could probably get the CGC notes and see if one of the restoration gurus on these boards could advise you if it's possible to remove slight professional resto without taking the book down too many notches.

 

[Mio]

A restored book should not have much more value than it's original cost + the restorer's fee, right?

 

By this reasoning, a newly restored house should sell for no more than the pre-restoration value + cost of restoration... which we know is generally not the case.

 

Don't forget, there is inherent risk that the resto goes awry, and often a long time delay to having the work completed. These are two reasons why there can be a premium.