Bronze age comics that are heating up on eBay... 38 38

[*Bronze age fan*]

Wow, a whole page of "ignores"

 

Same here, and it's highly amusing how OCD-psycho Rockhead here is. He's like Candyman, you mention his name a few times and "poof" there he is.

 

 

 

[joe_collector]

Sure he can be a big jerk and likely has a mass of people who put him on ignore, but don't let him get to you, I doubt its personal.

 

You'd be wrong then, as OCD-people like Rockhead bother me at an intrinsic level, and I can say without reservation, he is the *only* person on here that really true bothers me.

 

There is something "not right" about him, and I apologize if I'm not being polite, but there it is.

[joe_collector]

Eventually he will get another vacation. I just scroll on past.

 

You neglect to mention that Rockhead is the *reason* I take vacations from this place.

[Iceman399]

Sure he can be a big jerk and likely has a mass of people who put him on ignore, but don't let him get to you, I doubt its personal.

 

You'd be wrong then, as OCD CDO-people like Rockhead bother me at an intrinsic level, and I can say without reservation, he is the *only* person on here that really true bothers me.

 

There is something "not right" about him, and I apologize if I'm not being polite, but there it is.

 

Had to put it in alphabetical order for you

[RockMyAmadeus]

No its not once everything has changed does a new era start. .

 

That's not what I said, nor what I meant. There are people who make a reasonable argument that the Silver Age didn't actually start until FF #1, and that the DC work was proto-Silver Age.

 

I'm not saying I agree with them, but the argument isn't without merit.

 

Even if you believe two major starting points with copper I think there has already been MANY strong points made for the end of Bronze and the start of Copper in 80/81 for both DC and Marvel.

 

That's the thing...I'm saying there aren't ANY major starting points or ending points for either era. I'm saying it's completely blurred, and there are aspects of both going both ways. It's really hard to say 1980 is the definitive end of Bronze, when things that are considered "Bronze" continued for at least a couple more years.

 

So, ultimately my position is: there is no way to determine when one ended and the other began, and a reasonable argument can be made for as early as 1980, and as late as 1985. ("Reasonable" meaning people who make those arguments aren't "stupid" or "ignorant" or "insane" or any other such epithet.)

[RockMyAmadeus]

Sure he can be a big jerk and likely has a mass of people who put him on ignore, but don't let him get to you, I doubt its personal.

 

You'd be wrong then, as OCD-people like Rockhead bother me at an intrinsic level, and I can say without reservation, he is the *only* person on here that really true bothers me.

 

There is something "not right" about him, and I apologize if I'm not being polite, but there it is.

 

Eventually, even this moderation team will recognize that your text-book harassment is quite beyond their rules

 

The facts are quite clear, Vince: *you* are the one who is namecalling, *you* are the one who is diagnosing psychiatric conditions, *you* are the one who cannot have a discussion without being rude, demeaning, and insulting.

 

Since you refuse to curtail your behavior, it is now only a matter of time before action is taken against you. Why you get away with far worse than anyone else around here is a mystery, but you are focused on me because I shine a spotlight on it. Other people ignore you, because it's easier to ignore you, but enough was enough 10 years ago.

 

I'm still not going to insult you, I'm still not going to call you names, and I'm still going to post where I like, when I like, as is my privilege as a member here, free from harassment from you, just like everyone else.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Wow, a whole page of "ignores"

 

Same here, and it's highly amusing how OCD-psycho Rockhead here is. He's like Candyman, you mention his name a few times and "poof" there he is.

 

 

 

 

:shrug:

[divad]

Honestly, if you have to pinpoint it to one book, I really think you have to go with Dazzler #1. The importance of direct sales only is recognized by Marvel and that's what the CA is all about. Direct sales opens the doors to all the Indy publishers and the rest is history. If you want a time period 1981/1982 is the transition period, it starts from Dazzler #1 in 1981 as the first direct only book, followed by the limited series, a definite CA invention with Wolverine and Contest of Champions both in 1982. Lastly the birth of the Graphic Novel also in 1982, with the Death of Captain Marvel, The New Mutants and God Loves, Man Kills.

 

Everything that personifies the CA, Secret Wars, Dark Knight, TMNT all exist because of the way that Marvel changed/expanded the comic business between 1981 and 1982.

 

Jim

 

This is a very strong argument.

 

The dominance of the Direct market and decline of the newsstand was clearly the single defining event of the age. There is almost nothing that didn't change in the industry because of it.

 

Agreed. One could also argue that Dazzler #1 was both the birth (and the death ) of the CA.

[divad]

 

I think Joe and RMA bring some good info to the forum and I wouldn't put either of them on ignore, despite the strong personalities.

 

The difference is...and it's a biggie...I don't go around calling people names and insulting them because they disagree with me.

 

 

A "pulpit bully" who wants to be a victim too . . . oy vey.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I think Joe and RMA bring some good info to the forum and I wouldn't put either of them on ignore, despite the strong personalities.

 

The difference is...and it's a biggie...I don't go around calling people names and insulting them because they disagree with me.

 

 

A "pulpit bully" who wants to be a victim too . . . oy vey.

 

Just stop.

[divad]

Bronze most of the debate falls with GL 76 and Conan 1 for Bronze.

(GL 76 seems to be the most accepted starting point.)

 

 

I think the "acceptance" of GL 76 is predominantly in retrospect. Conan 1, contemporaneously, was a much larger event. As with most arguments, however, the "answer" is both.

[Rip]

No its not once everything has changed does a new era start. .

 

That's not what I said, nor what I meant. There are people who make a reasonable argument that the Silver Age didn't actually start until FF #1, and that the DC work was proto-Silver Age.

 

I'm not saying I agree with them, but the argument isn't without merit.

 

Even if you believe two major starting points with copper I think there has already been MANY strong points made for the end of Bronze and the start of Copper in 80/81 for both DC and Marvel.

 

That's the thing...I'm saying there aren't ANY major starting points or ending points for either era. I'm saying it's completely blurred, and there are aspects of both going both ways. It's really hard to say 1980 is the definitive end of Bronze, when things that are considered "Bronze" continued for at least a couple more years.

 

So, ultimately my position is: there is no way to determine when one ended and the other began, and a reasonable argument can be made for as early as 1980, and as late as 1985. ("Reasonable" meaning people who make those arguments aren't "stupid" or "ignorant" or "insane" or any other such epithet.)

 

I'm at a loss as to what you mean then after you said this.

You don't need all the big guns changed to start a new era, all it takes is a spark of something big. Just look at all the other eras as a template.

 

Right, but that's really the point, is it not?

 

After all...the Silver Age "started" with Showcase #4 in 1956...and most usually agree with that...but for Marvel, the "Post-Code Atom Age" continued unabated, with monster, alien, and sci-fi books being published almost into 1963.

 

For Marvel, it's fair to say that the Silver Age didn't start until 5 years after DC, in the late summer of 1961.

Judging from this post I would disagree. And the next post as well.

 

For the most part I think Copper begins with New Teen Titans but Byrne X-Men feels Bronze which extends X-Men to 1981.

Daredevil 168 is another big one which I think starts beginning of Copper.

 

I haven't read everyone else's comments but I would go with 80-81.

 

Rocketeer feels 100% copper.

 

What about the major characters of DC, none of which changed much at all until the mid-80's? Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman, Flash....

 

I guess I don't understand what you are trying to say now.

Cause I don't know how else to explain things with what you wrote. I don't see any merit in pushing it past 82 and judging from previous era changes it seems to make sense.

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by Rip

[RockMyAmadeus]

:shrug: I'm not understanding why there's confusion.

 

For Marvel, the Silver Age didn't start until the summer of 1961 with FF #1. Some have made the argument that therefore the ENTIRE Silver Age of the entire comics industry didn't really start until the summer of 1961. I don't subscribe to that view, but that argument is not entirely without merit (which is why it has been made so often.)

 

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the collapse of Atlas in 1957 and the return of Jack Kirby as a contender for the beginning of "the Marvel Age", but that argument isn't entirely without merit, either.

 

In the same way, the Copper Age for DC didn't start, at least for their major characters, until about 1985 (Crisis.) The Copper Age as a whole, however, began in phases over the previous 5 years.

 

There's no concrete answer. A reasonable argument can be made for essentially any time period between 1981(0?)-1984(5?).

[RockMyAmadeus]

That's the thing...I'm saying there aren't ANY major starting points or ending points for either era. I'm saying it's completely blurred, and there are aspects of both going both ways. It's really hard to say 1980 is the definitive end of Bronze, when things that are considered "Bronze" continued for at least a couple more years.

 

I think I see the confusion. Poor wording. What that first sentence should say is "I'm saying there isn't any major starting point for Copper nor a major ending point for Bronze."

 

Hopefully, that clears it up. My apologies for my muddled thought.

 

 

[vader2001]

Eventually he will get another vacation. I just scroll on past.

 

You neglect to mention that Rockhead is the *reason* I take vacations from this place.

 

 

I don't have any of the back ground of this, but you need to take responsibility for your actions...... If you said it than you are the reason you got the vacation not RMA.

 

 

[Brock]

If I read divad and Rip's comments correctly, they're describing a parallel sort of process that starts both the Silver and Copper ages... We see one event or issue as a "spark" that presages a larger change which takes some years to fully manifest. So Showcase #4 "sparks" the Silver Age, but that larger change doesn't really fully impact Marvel until FF #1.

 

The same idea could apply to, say, DC Comics Presents #26 as the spark of the Copper Age, though the changes - even at DC - are not complete for some time. In this context, it's interesting that it's Marv Wolfman who writes the New Teen Titans story in DCCP #26 who then becomes the individual responsible for "coppering" the whole DCU in Crisis on Infinite Earths. This approach places the beginning of an era in a "stylistic" space (which could work for Showcase #4, GL #76, or DCCP #26) rather than an "event" space (like FF #1 or Daredevil #181).

 

However, this still doesn't fully capture the compelling arguments made here about technology, distribution and production changes that also characterize the Copper Age...

 

And suggestions that the advent of things like mini-series are a part of the equation complicates this as well - despite some other candidates being mentioned here, I tend to think of the first "real" miniseries as World of Krypton from DC in 1979. In my own mind, though, I see this as a firmly 1970's approach, attempting to mirror the success of television mini-series like Roots (1977).

 

But what do I know... as joe's suggested, I'm one of those "OS advisors who will never be known for their intelligence or foresight..."

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

who then becomes the individual responsible for "coppering" the whole DCU

 

This is a choice, choice phrase. I'm going to steal it.

 

[Rip]

:shrug: I'm not understanding why there's confusion.

 

For Marvel, the Silver Age didn't start until the summer of 1961 with FF #1. Some have made the argument that therefore the ENTIRE Silver Age of the entire comics industry didn't really start until the summer of 1961. I don't subscribe to that view, but that argument is not entirely without merit (which is why it has been made so often.)

 

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the collapse of Atlas in 1957 and the return of Jack Kirby as a contender for the beginning of "the Marvel Age", but that argument isn't entirely without merit, either.

 

In the same way, the Copper Age for DC didn't start, at least for their major characters, until about 1985 (Crisis.) The Copper Age as a whole, however, began in phases over the previous 5 years.

 

There's no concrete answer. A reasonable argument can be made for essentially any time period between 1981(0?)-1984(5?).

 

Well I think it generally accepted that Marvel books pre FF1 are Silver like ToS 1 or TTA 13. You wont see those posted in the Golden Age section here. The cut off for Marvel Silver seems to be around 57 which is the end of Atlas.

 

OK I'm asking you to name a spark book. If you had to pick one, what would it be?

[RockMyAmadeus]

:shrug: I'm not understanding why there's confusion.

 

For Marvel, the Silver Age didn't start until the summer of 1961 with FF #1. Some have made the argument that therefore the ENTIRE Silver Age of the entire comics industry didn't really start until the summer of 1961. I don't subscribe to that view, but that argument is not entirely without merit (which is why it has been made so often.)

 

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the collapse of Atlas in 1957 and the return of Jack Kirby as a contender for the beginning of "the Marvel Age", but that argument isn't entirely without merit, either.

 

In the same way, the Copper Age for DC didn't start, at least for their major characters, until about 1985 (Crisis.) The Copper Age as a whole, however, began in phases over the previous 5 years.

 

There's no concrete answer. A reasonable argument can be made for essentially any time period between 1981(0?)-1984(5?).

 

Well I think it generally accepted that Marvel books pre FF1 are Silver like ToS 1 or TTA 13. You wont see those posted in the Golden Age section here. The cut off for Marvel Silver seems to be around 57 which is the end of Atlas.

 

OK I'm asking you to name a spark book. If you had to pick one, what would it be?

 

For Silver Age, I'm classic: Showcase #4 was the start of it all.

 

For Copper... :shrug:

[Rip]

Nice post. Another reason why Wolfman and the Titans are a good sparking point.

I like the phrase "coppering" (thumbs u

The title also was renumbered and changed to Direct Mkt Baxter paper mid 1984.

 

I think you get where I was going. Titans and Wolfman seemed to be the focal point of where changes were happening in the early 80's DC. Didn't hurt that it was drawn by Perez who also did Crisis.

 

Seems to fit with all of the previous era changes.

Also continues the trend that DC seems to start the spark every era. (thumbs u

 

 

I thought this was an interesting note after the Monitor's first app in Titans 21.

 

http://www.english.ufl.edu/imagetext/archives/v6_2/friedenthal/

"In a memo from Giordano, Crisis writer Marv Wolfman, and writer/editor Len Wein to all DC editors and writers,[5] the mandate was given that, "Because this series involves the entire DC Universe we do ask that each Editor and writer cooperate with the project by using a character called The Monitor in their books twice during the next year" (Crisis Compendium 4). In a follow-up memo to the entire editorial staff, Giordano reiterated that, "The need to include the Monitor in your plans is not optional but absolutely required for all designated titles" (Crisis Compendium 8). However, only three months later, Giordano, Wolfman, and Wein notified the editorial staff that plans for Crisis had changed: "after you use the Monitor twice, please do not use him again. He'll be gone by next summer" (Crisis Compendium 8). Crisis, then, revealed the full and confusing extent to which editors, and particularly senior editors, were beginning to impose their own demands upon the writers of superhero comics, so that the fuller universe of the characters would (ideally) become more united and cohesive."

 

In summary.

DC Comics Presents 26 (10/80)

1st App of New Teen Titans by Wolfman and Perez

Marv Wolfman at the DC centerpoint for change.

Titans has darker more realistic stories with stronger continuity

Begins "More new pages from the New DC" in the bottom logo box

 

 

Other factors that embody Copper age trends from the Titans

Earliest Crisis tie-ins; issue 21 (82)

Mini series (82)

Baxter paper change over (84)

Direct MKT change over (84)

Renumbering (84)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2014 by Rip