Brian48 Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 In all seriousness, for me, it's just like baseball cards. When they became shiny and hi-tech, that's when Copper started. In this case, it was the introduction of Marvel Fanfare #1, the precursor to the modern age. I remember getting my copy and saying to myself "Man, comics has really changed.". Comics (and BB cards) were no longer produced using the cheapest materials and was meant to be collectible versus being a childhood throw away. "Bagging" comics became the norm, although boarding would still take a few years before that became standard practice. It was also around this time I got out of comics. Hard to explain. Some of the stories were still written the same, but comics just had a different feel too them. Speculation mania may have exploded in the '90s, but it started in the '80s. Yeah, I'm rambling about my lost youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 As I've said before, there is no definitive start/end to Copper/Bronze. As I've said before, no one cares what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 In all seriousness, for me, it's just like baseball cards. When they became shiny and hi-tech, that's when Copper started. In this case, it was the introduction of Marvel Fanfare #1, the precursor to the modern age. I remember getting my copy and saying to myself "Man, comics has really changed.". That was March 1982, the same month as Warrior 1 and a month before Marvel Graphic Novel 1: Death of Captain Marvel hit the stands. Once you hit 1982, everything changed. Anyone who thinks these books, and the subsequent ones to 1985, are Bronze is a) patently insane and b) were *not* buying comics back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 This would make a fun thread... Signals to indicate End of Bronze.... Wolverine suit change End of Monster genre (ManThing vol2 cancelled 1981) Marketing gimmicks - Rise of the graphic novel and limited issue story arcs (secret wars etc) Sue Storm changes hair style to classic 80s.. way to go Mr Byrne! I had a list somewhere, but this is all i can remember at the moment. May 1979: Daredevil 158- First Miller art Aug 1979 - Tomb of Dracula cancelled, effectively ending the Marvel BA of Horror Nov 1979: Iron Man #128 "Demon in a Bottle" Feb 1980: She-Hulk #1 Mar 1980: King Conan 1 Apr 1980: Star Trek 1 Spring 1980: Epic Illustrated 1 Aug 1980 - Tomb of Dracula Magazine cancelled Sep 1980: X-Men 137- Death of Dark Phoenix Oct 1980: DC Presents 26- first New Teen Titans Nov 1980: New Teen Titans 1 Nov 1980: Moon Knight gets his own series 1980 : Superboy Spectacular- Direct Sales only 1-shot Jan 1981: Daredevil 168- First Miller -script; Intro Elektra Jan 1981: X-Men 141- Days of Future Past launches alternate time line that would form the basis for lots of uber-fandom-based X-continuity over the next several years Jan 1981: Capital Comics launches and publishes Nexus 1 Mar 1981: X-Men 143- Final Claremont/Byrne Mar 1981: Dazzler 1- First direct-sales-only for an ongoing series Mar 1981: Bizarre Adventures starts Mar 1981: Captain Canuck is cancelled May 1981: Eclipse Magazine starts June 1981: The Hulk magazine ends Jul 1981: Fantastic Four 232 - Byrne takes over FF writing/art duties. Aug 1981: Rogue debuts Aug 1981: Marvel Premiere ends Nov 1981: Captain Victory 1- First Pacific Comics issue, direct-only publisher 1981: Marvel cancels many of its reprint titles, including MGC, AA, TTA, MSA, etc. 1981: Stan Lee moves to California to head Marvel TV/movie properties, leaving Jim Shooter in charge 1981: Jenette Kahn promoted to President of DC Comics, leading the way for Vertigo and GN explosion. Feb 1982: Starslayer #1 (first Rocketeer) Mar 1982: Warrior Magazine #1 /Alan Moore (Marvelman, V for Vendetta) Mar 1982: Marvel Fanfare #1 - New Format Apr 1982: Marvel introduces Graphic Novel series, including Death of Captain Marvel and X-Men: God Loves, Man Kills May 1982: Saga of the Swamp Thing #1 May 1982: First Groo the Wanderer June 1982: G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero #1 June 1982: Marvel Super-Hero Contest of Champions #1 (first Marvel mini-series, precursor to Secret Wars) Sept 1982: Love and Rockets debuts Sept 1982: Wolverine Mini #1 1982: Harvey Comics, Warren Publishing and Spire Comics cease operations 1982: DC cancels remaining Horror titles 1982: Start of creator royalties at Marvel and DC 1982: Steve Geppi founds Diamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) For the most part I think Copper begins with New Teen Titans but Byrne X-Men feels Bronze which extends X-Men to 1981. Daredevil 168 is another big one which I think starts beginning of Copper. I haven't read everyone else's comments but I would go with 80-81. Rocketeer feels 100% copper. Edited March 27, 2014 by Rip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I haven't read everyone else's comments but I would go with 80-81. That's the consensus from intelligent people, because by 1982, *everything* had changed and it was a whole new world with Graphics Novels, creator-owned mags, DM-only books, Alan Moore, Mini-Series galore, Harvey + Warren + Spire closing, all traditional Horror and Cartoon titles being cancelled, Stan Lee leaving Marvel, Kahn taking over DC, etc., etc. People who say 1982-85 is Bronze are/were either a) being disingenuous because they have tons of unsellable early-80's Copper junk they want to transform into "Investment Grade Bronze", b) not buying comic back then and rely on supposition instead of hands-on accounts, or c) just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Agreed, I wouldn't dream of putting books like Camelot 3000 (Baxter-direct only-maxi-series) in Bronze. Great book though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_collector Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Agreed, I wouldn't dream of putting books like Camelot 3000 (Baxter-direct only-maxi-series) in Bronze. It's just like when OS published a scenario where ASM 121 was the Start of the Bronze Age, the insanity of that theory was made clear when all the titles and characters that suddenly became Silver, were listed. And it was a BIG list, and it cut out pretty well every single key BA first appearance other than Punisher and Wolverine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimik Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) People who say 1982-85 is Bronze are/were either a) being disingenuous because they have tons of unsellable early-80's Copper junk they want to transform into "Investment Grade Bronze", b) not buying comic back then and rely on supposition instead of hands-on accounts, or c) just plain stupid. I have never understood this view. Most collectors consider the key BA era to be 1970-1975, as this is the period that all of the big books are from. Ask them when the BA ended, and they will say 1979/1980. The only theory that is a bit out there that I could see is the view that Star Wars #1 was the start of the CA. It is a bit early, but I can understand the thought process behind it. New Teen Titans #1 and DD #168 are likely the most approrpiate starting points for the DC and Marvel Copper Ages respectively. FWIW, how fast will those dealers start to change their "late Bronze" to "early Copper" stance now that Copper is heating up? Edited March 27, 2014 by kimik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revat Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 As I've said before, there is no definitive start/end to Copper/Bronze. Some books, like Batman, retained a Bronze age feel until Miller did Dark Knight (1986.) Some books, like New Teen Titans, had a definite Copper vibe, even though it started in 1980. Solid Bronze is to at least the end of Byrne's X-Men, in early 1981. Solid Copper is definitely Turtles #1 in 1984. What's between? A whole lot of fuzziness. Spidey, for example. What's the end of Bronze, beginning of Copper? Nothing serious happened for years with Spidey, after graduating from college in 185. So, would it be Hobgoblin? That's early 1983. What about Superman? Superman remained static throughout Bronze, until Byrne took over with Man of Steel. That's late 1986! Thor? That would be #337, in mid-83. X-Men? Even when Cockrum returned, it still had a Bronze feel. It took Paul Smith's arrival (#165) to shake things up, and X-Men finally started to "feel" different. 1981 is a bit too early for Copper....1984 is a bit too late for Bronze. Everything else is up for grabs. Transitional era. Cronze baby! Cronze!! Bropper! Bronze was before Copper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Naw, man, Rom is pure Bronze Age, disco ball, platform shoes, perm wearing goodness! Until issue #47. Then it's just pure awesome until the end. I would say pure awesomeness until the end of the Wraith war. The book kinda lost its way after that. Why you gotta spoil it, Jerkfro? (I was just thinking about the 25th Anniversary covers, and wishing that Rom had made it just a few more issues....can you imagine how cool a Rom #80 would have been? Maybe I'll get a 75th Anniversary blank, and have Sal draw a Rom head on it. But yeah, it totally lost its way after #66.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 As I've said before, there is no definitive start/end to Copper/Bronze. Some books, like Batman, retained a Bronze age feel until Miller did Dark Knight (1986.) Some books, like New Teen Titans, had a definite Copper vibe, even though it started in 1980. Solid Bronze is to at least the end of Byrne's X-Men, in early 1981. Solid Copper is definitely Turtles #1 in 1984. What's between? A whole lot of fuzziness. Spidey, for example. What's the end of Bronze, beginning of Copper? Nothing serious happened for years with Spidey, after graduating from college in 185. So, would it be Hobgoblin? That's early 1983. What about Superman? Superman remained static throughout Bronze, until Byrne took over with Man of Steel. That's late 1986! Thor? That would be #337, in mid-83. X-Men? Even when Cockrum returned, it still had a Bronze feel. It took Paul Smith's arrival (#165) to shake things up, and X-Men finally started to "feel" different. 1981 is a bit too early for Copper....1984 is a bit too late for Bronze. Everything else is up for grabs. Transitional era. Cronze baby! Cronze!! By Cronze! Down with the Broppers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 As I've said before, there is no definitive start/end to Copper/Bronze. As I've said before, no one cares what you think. I have the feeling that's not really true. (To the rest of you...why do you tolerate this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 In all seriousness, for me, it's just like baseball cards. When they became shiny and hi-tech, that's when Copper started. In this case, it was the introduction of Marvel Fanfare #1, the precursor to the modern age. I remember getting my copy and saying to myself "Man, comics has really changed.". That was March 1982, the same month as Warrior 1 and a month before Marvel Graphic Novel 1: Death of Captain Marvel hit the stands. Once you hit 1982, everything changed. Anyone who thinks these books, and the subsequent ones to 1985, are Bronze is a) patently insane and b) were *not* buying comics back then. Buying comics "back then" doesn't have much to do with determining what relative "age" they belong to. We have all sorts of paleontological names for eras in which none of the people who named them were actually living. I'm pretty sure Edward Drinker Cope was never chased around by a T-Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 For the most part I think Copper begins with New Teen Titans but Byrne X-Men feels Bronze which extends X-Men to 1981. Daredevil 168 is another big one which I think starts beginning of Copper. I haven't read everyone else's comments but I would go with 80-81. Rocketeer feels 100% copper. What about the major characters of DC, none of which changed much at all until the mid-80's? Supes, Bats, Wonder Woman, Flash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 I haven't read everyone else's comments but I would go with 80-81. That's the consensus from intelligent people, because by 1982, *everything* had changed and it was a whole new world with Graphics Novels, creator-owned mags, DM-only books, Alan Moore, Mini-Series galore, Harvey + Warren + Spire closing, all traditional Horror and Cartoon titles being cancelled, Stan Lee leaving Marvel, Kahn taking over DC, etc., etc. People who say 1982-85 is Bronze are/were either a) being disingenuous because they have tons of unsellable early-80's Copper junk they want to transform into "Investment Grade Bronze", b) not buying comic back then and rely on supposition instead of hands-on accounts, or c) just plain stupid. "Everything"...? Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern...what changed with them? I'm going to go with d) recognize that not everything changed, and while things WERE changing, there was plenty that remained static well into the decade, and choose to rely on hands-on accounts from people who actually published their accounts at the time of the events, rather than fuzzy memories 30+ years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divad Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wow, a whole page of "ignores" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F For Fake Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wow, a whole page of "ignores" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockMyAmadeus Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wow, a whole page of "ignores" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 (edited) Not all of the characters have to change to mark the end or start of a new era. Never been the rule with previous eras. Every era beginnings have a little wiggle room. DC also began the "New DC" branding on the covers in 1980 around the first app of the Titans in DC Comics Presents 26. That was the start of a lot of the future shake up at DC. A more advanced story telling and a stronger continuity marks the beginnings of copper for me. At least with DC storytelling. Bigger changes were slowing happening in the background starting in 1982 with the introduction to the Monitor in the shadows (6/82) and Lyla/Harbinger (6/83); a precursor to Crisis. All of that is Copper for me. Edited March 27, 2014 by Rip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
