Dragon Con is a den of hedonism?

[Mayor006]

Ethan is a pretty cool dude. Kramer needs to be locked up forever.

Dragon Con is NOT good for: buying comics, NOT seeing that no one should ever have to see, smells.(what con is though really?)

Dragon Con IS good for: Access to celebrities (Particularly comic creators. This is probably the only con you can go to and walk straight up to someone like Scott Campbell and not have a single person get in your way) Not only that, but there was one evening where i got to chat with stan lee for a while in the hotel lobby, go by the bar and have a few drinks with Mark Texiera and then end up in suite level lounge sipping coffee and talking to Christopher LLoyd while that Hot blonde who played supergirl on Smallville saunters by looking ungodly hot. All this and my girlfriend is right there with me in a corset and hot pants. Then it was pounding drinks like a maniac and going to raves, weirdo panels, and hotel parties with that drunken weirdo who played Ryker on star Trek following us around and making our girlfriend's uncomfortable. Ditching that guy was a highlight for me as i've never liked Star Trek at all and he thought he was the coolest guy ever. I generally don't sleep at this convention so i was awake when the sun came up and helped a lady that was on crutches carry her bags to her room. This is just one day out of the 70 or so that i've spent at Dragon Con.

It's like my Christmas every year, and pretty much the only time that i get to hang out with 20 or so friends from high school/college that have moved out of state. It's unfortunate that that piece of human feces on wheels is tied to the show in whatever way, but Dragon Con is awesome. Also, NO ONE has ever offered Tony Isabella the sex. I mean, COME ON.

 

I can count on one hand the number of Dragon Cons that I have missed since it first EXISTED and he is not exaggerating in the least. I think I even still have my badge from the Atlanta Comic Expo from the early days before it had the name DragonCon. Walk outside and see all the celebrities you want while they are on their smoke break....

[Prince Namor]

Last time I went to Dragon Con was in the mid 90's.

For those wanting a more understated PG idea of what it's like:

I remember going from having a lengthy discussion with Monique Gabrielle one moment to having Bob Burden reading me a story from his latest Flaming Carrot comic the next.

Jim Steranko in a purple suit showed me magic tricks and women in dominatrix outfits luring people to their tables selling trinkets.

Bernie Wrightson sitting alone at his table.

 

 

 

 

Did you tell them your real last name was Grower?

 

yes, it has a more guttural sound to it for shows like this.

[Dr. Balls]

Did you tell them your real last name was Grower?

 

yes, it has a more guttural sound to it for shows like this.

 

[dgarthwaite-migration]

I work with a guy who thinks Ed is guilty because he was at a party hosted by Ed when he was a teenager and he thought Ed was "creepy". I asked him if there was anything specific or improper that Ed did. His answer was "no". He knows Pat Henry very well and he could not provide any specific instances to back his belief other than what has been presented in the media

 

I knew Ed's caretaker when he was under house arrest in Georgia. She swore he was innocent and that Ed had made some enemies through his past business dealings. She named some of the people and pointed me to past articles where these people were trying to publicly destroy the man even before the current accusations arose. This woman was ex-military and had a masculine appearance. She told me that some of instances where he is accused of being with a young boy... the person was actually her. She complained a lot about him. Several things make me believe her. First, she didn't like him, Why defend someone you don't like? Second, her defense of him actually was actually advertising the fact she looked boyish. Third, she was able to provide a very plausible back story to explain all the accusations against him.

 

I see Nancy Collins name appear wherever Ed's name appears online. She *may* have been one of the people that came out on the short end of a business dealing with Ed prior to all these accusations. I don't know who she is, but her name looks familiar and it might be one of the names that Ed's caretaker had told me about.

 

If Ed is guilty, I hope the delays end soon and he gets his full punishment under the law. I'm apprehensive about jumping on the "boycott Dragon Con" bandwagon because I believe Pat truly would like to sever his business connections with Ed as soon as possible. If you adhere to Christian beliefs, the parable of the wheat and the tares not only describes the appropriate reaction to this dilemma, but it also explains why good and evil coexist at all.

 

As far as the convention being a den of hedonism.... Tony may have just boosted attendance with his complaints. The thought of dressing up like a Storm Trooper, leaving the basement and actually having sex with a female is heaven to some of the people I've seen there.

 

DG

 

You just explained all of the past but none of this explains him getting arrested in 2011 in Connecticut and being subsequently extradited back to Georgia.

 

 

I can't justify his choice, but he is in advanced stages of diabetes from my understanding and does require someone to assist him due to his health problems. Healthcare professionals are not cheap when paying by the day. It is not unfathomable to me that he might have chosen someone who would help for less pay. He should be locked up if he isn't adhering to the terms by which he was released. All I'm really saying is that he needs to go to trial rather than judge him on bits and pieces of biased hearsay. I don't know of anyone that particularly likes the man or agrees with the choices he's made. That doesn't make him guilty. Does he look like he could entice a teenager into sexual acts? All the initial accusations about him came out weeks after a bitter split with the mom of three boys. Do you think it might be possible that she was pissed about losing access to his income and the boys were coached into saying things happened? I'm not saying that's the case, but it is a possibility. The evidence should speak for itself and in a court of law, not in front of a public lynch mob that knows only what his critics want them to know.

 

 

[dupont2005]

So no one has any comments on Ed Kramer's alleged child molestation?

 

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/agenda/2013/04/10/dragoncon-cofounder-ed-kramer-asks-for-new-bond-despite-violating-old-one

 

 

Until he gets prosecuted and the details of the case him are laid out, it's premature to make a judgment.

 

The allegations are horrible, and next to none of the actual details of the proof against him have been shown before the court. Opining now would be a guess, and a reckless one.

But didn't he get busted again, very recently, as in while on bail, in a motel room with another minor? Regardless of what he ends up getting convicted of, that's enough for me to think the dude is a scumbag.

[Prince Namor]

I work with a guy who thinks Ed is guilty because he was at a party hosted by Ed when he was a teenager and he thought Ed was "creepy". I asked him if there was anything specific or improper that Ed did. His answer was "no". He knows Pat Henry very well and he could not provide any specific instances to back his belief other than what has been presented in the media

 

I knew Ed's caretaker when he was under house arrest in Georgia. She swore he was innocent and that Ed had made some enemies through his past business dealings. She named some of the people and pointed me to past articles where these people were trying to publicly destroy the man even before the current accusations arose. This woman was ex-military and had a masculine appearance. She told me that some of instances where he is accused of being with a young boy... the person was actually her. She complained a lot about him. Several things make me believe her. First, she didn't like him, Why defend someone you don't like? Second, her defense of him actually was actually advertising the fact she looked boyish. Third, she was able to provide a very plausible back story to explain all the accusations against him.

 

I see Nancy Collins name appear wherever Ed's name appears online. She *may* have been one of the people that came out on the short end of a business dealing with Ed prior to all these accusations. I don't know who she is, but her name looks familiar and it might be one of the names that Ed's caretaker had told me about.

 

If Ed is guilty, I hope the delays end soon and he gets his full punishment under the law. I'm apprehensive about jumping on the "boycott Dragon Con" bandwagon because I believe Pat truly would like to sever his business connections with Ed as soon as possible. If you adhere to Christian beliefs, the parable of the wheat and the tares not only describes the appropriate reaction to this dilemma, but it also explains why good and evil coexist at all.

 

As far as the convention being a den of hedonism.... Tony may have just boosted attendance with his complaints. The thought of dressing up like a Storm Trooper, leaving the basement and actually having sex with a female is heaven to some of the people I've seen there.

 

DG

 

You just explained all of the past but none of this explains him getting arrested in 2011 in Connecticut and being subsequently extradited back to Georgia.

 

 

I can't justify his choice, but he is in advanced stages of diabetes from my understanding and does require someone to assist him due to his health problems. Healthcare professionals are not cheap when paying by the day. It is not unfathomable to me that he might have chosen someone who would help for less pay.

 

Yeah, what IS the daily rate for a 14 year old boy 'health care professional' who'll illegally follow you out of state and set up camp in a hotel room? You say you can't justify his choice, but that sounds like that's exactly what you're doing.

 

He should be locked up if he isn't adhering to the terms by which he was released. All I'm really saying is that he needs to go to trial rather than judge him on bits and pieces of biased hearsay. I don't know of anyone that particularly likes the man or agrees with the choices he's made. That doesn't make him guilty. Does he look like he could entice a teenager into sexual acts?

 

Bad defense. His money is still green, and there are plenty of desperate homeless young people around to be victimized.

Why you're even defending him with a statement like this is puzzling.

 

All the initial accusations about him came out weeks after a bitter split with the mom of three boys. Do you think it might be possible that she was pissed about losing access to his income and the boys were coached into saying things happened? I'm not saying that's the case, but it is a possibility.

 

OR, the split could've occurred because of the sexual misconduct. You're speculating no differently than the other side.

 

The evidence should speak for itself and in a court of law, not in front of a public lynch mob that knows only what his critics want them to know.

 

Public lynch mob?

When did this guy get lynched?

I agree it's best not to make a definitive decision on if he's guilty based upon not knowing the complete story, but lets hold back on painting him as a crucified martyr just yet as well. Despite all the mud slinging, he's been free for 11 years from going to court and still pulling in income from the convention.

 

He's been accused of a heinous crime. He's used lawyers to keep it out of court and keep himself free. He's left the state illegally and set himself up in a hotel room with a 14 year old boy. That was in 2011!!!

Now he's dragged this on even further.

You'd think if he was that worried about his name getting dragged through the mud, at some point he'd want to go to court and defend himself.

 

I know the system isn't always fair, but at a certain point why wouldn't someone decide to fight back and clear their name?

[Bosco685]

You'd think if he was that worried about his name getting dragged through the mud, at some point he'd want to go to court and defend himself.

 

I know the system isn't always fair, but at a certain point why wouldn't someone decide to fight back and clear their name?

 

And there's the most obvious indicator something isn't right with this situation. Not even an attempt to make a statement he has been wrongfully accused that has been noted.

 

Deep hole in the ground. Hungry rats. Pervert kicked into said hole with a, "I'm sure some of these fellows are twelve and under - have fun" sendoff.

 

Children deserve so much better from life than what someone like this has offered up.

[ashsaytr]

http://www.atlantamagazine.com/features/2012/9/1/dragoncon-ed-kramer-child-molestation

[passion4comics]

As I try to type on my tablet.

 

Has this guy ever been convicted of child molestation? I’m going to play both sides of this coin from my own experience while a cop. I personally walked in on a child rape. In a Brooklyn project, this Uncle leaves the front door open and while doing a patrol we just pushed it open a little bit and there is was as plain as the keyboard in my face. The guy looked over and saw 3 uniformed cops looking at him. You want to talk about a guy turning as white as a ghost. The kid (9 years old) had no idea what was going on other than this is what is done to him which we later found to be normal in that household. I am being 110% serious. If I were alone and could have got away with it, I would have given him a leadached and slept like a baby that night. While working for a Brokerage house later in life a Holey Roller that sat across from me was arrested for raping various kids in his little league for years. The insufficiently_thoughtful_person would have one kid hold the video camera while he switched them off like flipping through a CD looking for a song. Do either of these people deserve to live? Absolutely not. I think this should be a capital crime with the death penalty for someone over the age of 25 to be having sex with anyone 11 or under. For those other age spreads the crimes, if more than 4 years apart in age, should be thrown into a Stalin type Gulag. None of this “rehabilitation” where you get 3 meals a day, medical, and time to hang out with your new buddies all day.

 

I would respond to calls of “rapes” which we would have to call for the vitullo kits (rape kits) for evidence. We also responded to rapes where it was a basic forcible compulsion and obvious. MANY MANY of these rape claims turn out to be Monday morning regrets or revenge because of a personal relationship disagreement. Just an accusation of rape or molestation in my experience doesn’t mean squat. A Grand Jury is a joke. An indictment means nothing. It just means the ADA put on a show and got a 51% vote. Innocent or guilty you shut your mouth and don’t make any statements or try to prove your innocence to anyone but the jury.

 

On the other side of this coin we have a series of potentially inappropriate activities. Can the guy just be weird? It’s possible, but if you’ve already had issues with the law then you should make sure that you don’t have these same issues again. Just because someone is accused does not mean they did it. Just because someone didn’t make a statement of innocence does not mean they are guilty. However, you have to look at patterns here. Either he has issues where he feels the compulsion to be around kids or when he is finally on trial a lot will come out that will make you want to vomit.

 

I have a bigger question. WHO or WHERE are the parents of this 16-year old girl that was able to offer sex for lodging? Where are the parents of these kids allowed to hang out with this older guy?!?!

 

----------------

For the record, the "Spoon" filter ripped out half of what I was saying and since masking would be a strike, these child molesters got off easy. I had to tone it down...

 

[aggr1103]

You'd think if he was that worried about his name getting dragged through the mud, at some point he'd want to go to court and defend himself.

 

I know the system isn't always fair, but at a certain point why wouldn't someone decide to fight back and clear their name?

 

At this point his name has been drug through the mud so much, it would probably be better to go to court to attempt to clear his name, if the allegations are false.

[F For Fake]

The entire Ed Kramer mess aside, I've been going to DragonCon fairly regularly for about 16 years, primarily BECAUSE it's a den of sin. It's like nerd Mardi Gras, or a geek(ier) Burning Man. Fly your freakiest flag for four days and don't look back. I have many very fond, often hazy, sometimes disturbing memories from my times there that I wouldn't trade for the world. I respect the fact that this show is probably not for conservative folks. That's not an issue for me.

 

Also, as was noted above, comics are only a small portion of the show, so you can walk right up to the pros without any sort of line, all day long. Mignola, Hughes, Eisner, Dave Stevens, Steranko, Wrightson...I've been able to meet so many legends there, and each was readily available. J. Scott Campbell has had some fairly long lines, and Perez when he's doing the $20 sketches at the Hero Initiative booth, but otherwise, nada. It remains my favorite show to meet comics pros for this exact reason, and I selfishly worry that eventually people are going to catch on and it won't be as fun anymore. IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I have many very fond, often hazy, sometimes disturbing memories from my times there that I wouldn't trade for the world.

 

[THB]

Ethan is a pretty cool dude. Kramer needs to be locked up forever.

Dragon Con is NOT good for: buying comics, NOT seeing that no one should ever have to see, smells.(what con is though really?)

Dragon Con IS good for: Access to celebrities (Particularly comic creators. This is probably the only con you can go to and walk straight up to someone like Scott Campbell and not have a single person get in your way) Not only that, but there was one evening where i got to chat with stan lee for a while in the hotel lobby, go by the bar and have a few drinks with Mark Texiera and then end up in suite level lounge sipping coffee and talking to Christopher LLoyd while that Hot blonde who played supergirl on Smallville saunters by looking ungodly hot. All this and my girlfriend is right there with me in a corset and hot pants. Then it was pounding drinks like a maniac and going to raves, weirdo panels, and hotel parties with that drunken weirdo who played Ryker on star Trek following us around and making our girlfriend's uncomfortable. Ditching that guy was a highlight for me as i've never liked Star Trek at all and he thought he was the coolest guy ever. I generally don't sleep at this convention so i was awake when the sun came up and helped a lady that was on crutches carry her bags to her room. This is just one day out of the 70 or so that i've spent at Dragon Con.

It's like my Christmas every year, and pretty much the only time that i get to hang out with 20 or so friends from high school/college that have moved out of state. It's unfortunate that that piece of human feces on wheels is tied to the show in whatever way, but Dragon Con is awesome. Also, NO ONE has ever offered Tony Isabella the sex. I mean, COME ON.

 

 

Cool Story, Bro.

 

 

You dropped more names than a census taker falling down a flight of stairs.

 

Easy to tell which one of you has actually been to Dragoncon.

[comix4fun]

Ethan is a pretty cool dude. Kramer needs to be locked up forever.

Dragon Con is NOT good for: buying comics, NOT seeing that no one should ever have to see, smells.(what con is though really?)

Dragon Con IS good for: Access to celebrities (Particularly comic creators. This is probably the only con you can go to and walk straight up to someone like Scott Campbell and not have a single person get in your way) Not only that, but there was one evening where i got to chat with stan lee for a while in the hotel lobby, go by the bar and have a few drinks with Mark Texiera and then end up in suite level lounge sipping coffee and talking to Christopher LLoyd while that Hot blonde who played supergirl on Smallville saunters by looking ungodly hot. All this and my girlfriend is right there with me in a corset and hot pants. Then it was pounding drinks like a maniac and going to raves, weirdo panels, and hotel parties with that drunken weirdo who played Ryker on star Trek following us around and making our girlfriend's uncomfortable. Ditching that guy was a highlight for me as i've never liked Star Trek at all and he thought he was the coolest guy ever. I generally don't sleep at this convention so i was awake when the sun came up and helped a lady that was on crutches carry her bags to her room. This is just one day out of the 70 or so that i've spent at Dragon Con.

It's like my Christmas every year, and pretty much the only time that i get to hang out with 20 or so friends from high school/college that have moved out of state. It's unfortunate that that piece of human feces on wheels is tied to the show in whatever way, but Dragon Con is awesome. Also, NO ONE has ever offered Tony Isabella the sex. I mean, COME ON.

 

 

Cool Story, Bro.

 

 

You dropped more names than a census taker falling down a flight of stairs.

 

Easy to tell which one of you has actually been to Dragoncon.

 

 

I don't think I mentioned going, so it's even easier.

[THB]

[drbanner]

My one experience with Dragon Con involved meeting Jim Steranko, a Betty Page fashion show, a KISS tribute band/concert, disturbing body-piercing videos in the wee morning hours, and a few comics but not much. It was all a bit hazy, and an "unconventional convention" would be a good way to put it.

[comix4fun]

 

 

Of course, hearing all these stories, it seems I should have been attending all these years.

[THB]

Dragoncon is so much more than Hedonism.......sleep is optional with everything going on.

[MagnusX]

 

[font:Book Antiqua]Not sure if it was posted before,

but some updates in the case of Edward Kramer[/font]

 

Story Link...

[Mayor006]

So let's take this to the next step for a second. If Georgia convicts him of the crimes does that give the remaining owners of DragonCon an out that allows them to buy him out or cut ties in some way legally?