Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[accessndx]

Forget racism and such for a second. What ever happened to translating the comic in it's original form right to a movie? The foundation of interest has always been from the fans themselves. The largest amount of frustration fans experience is when their expectations are not congruent with what has been produced. There have been a number of explanations as to why this occurs: one being that the attributes of some characters are owned or have been created by different individuals, thus making it difficult to translate directly.

As an example, and just an example: let's take Spiderman. In one take on spiderman, he's got the ability to shoot webs out of his hands without the use of web-shooters that he developed in the comics. In fact, in the comics this dependence upon that technology leads to different interesting occurrences....whereas in the movie they worked around that my making him essentially mutate as a result of the spider-bite thus enabling him to create this webbing internally. I'm not saying that's what happened: I'm not sure if there are different contributors to the origin of spiderman and his various attributes...but that demonstrates a major departure from the comics. Likewise, sometimes various things are eliminated from movies as a result of the complex ownership arrangements.

 

This recent development where a character of a different race or color has been selected potentially to play the human torch doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe someone is looking to contemporize the character, but I'll ask the original question: when possible, why not make a direct translation of the character as best you can to the big screen?

I will say I was utterly disappointed with Marvel's treatment of the Mandarin in the recent Iron Man 3 film. I was not only surprised, but the entire plot twist was a huge turn-off after that point. They took too big a leap and changed a character that in my mind should have been portrayed as completely different from the finished product. That could have been handled in so many different 'contemporary' ways including making him appear to be some sort of "Osama bin Laden" character.....however making him an actor portraying the Mandarin was a very low blow. They minimized his importance in the comics and that move is irrevocable.

 

My suggestion to the filmmakers: be true to the fans. Try to support their interest before dilluting the brand to cater to the masses. If possible attempt to do both. The IM franchise lost my interest after this recent debacle and with the history of FF movies being rather weak, I was hoping they'd do a better job with all forthcoming movies. There's plenty of opportunity to bring African American heroes to the big screen, why not work with the ones that are already established rather than try to inject them forcefully into a project that will unduly upset the established fan base?

 

[Prince Namor]

Putting aside the awful image posted by someone earlier - has anyone actually thought about the potential outcry when a Black guy goes up in flames?

 

Aside from people obsessed about race, no one is going to be upset over a non-caucasian Human Torch.

 

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

 

 

Oh? John Byrne was vocal about his unhappiness that Sue Storm was played by a latino actress.

 

If you're going to cast aspersions, at least get it right.

 

Ok. My own personal reaction to JB's comments on seeing the first pictures of Jessica Alba as Sue Storm seemed to me as if he was unhappy that a Latino woman was cast.

 

It was based on this quote: "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades."

 

Since anything relating to this has been wiped from JB's forum, I can not quote on his actual feelings about the subject, I can only, based upon that quote, make my own assumption that he did not view the casting as favorable.

 

 

[Maccai3]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

[Johnny U]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

Wasn't he just a millionaire at that time?

[He11blazer]

Having said that, I may be liking mainly her looks and certain cute gestures which I suspect I will grow quite tired of by the time I've watched the whole series!

 

You will. She is quite useless in that show. But, definitely worth watching! (although this season is a bit slow so far)

 

I don't blame January Jones for this, but I have no idea why she's even been in the series since Don Draper remarried. She's barely in the show, and when she is, she's written to serve zero purpose to the story, yet they keep showing her.

 

You just spoiled me!

 

Of course I'm joking and don't actually care. I'm watching a 6 year old show after all!

[He11blazer]

It's difficult to think of any superhero whose identity is tied to the era they were created in, but I'm sure there are some.

 

Rocketeer maybe?

Captain America is the one that comes to mind the most to me.

 

Definitely. The character simply wouldn't make sense originating in any other era.

[Maccai3]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

Wasn't he just a millionaire at that time?

 

nope

[Bosco685]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

 

One historic fact at a time. So there were black surgeons even around 1863, let alone 1939-1940. So 0% seems to be slightly off.

[Johnny U]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

Wasn't he just a millionaire at that time?

 

nope

Man that's one rich dude!

[fantastic_four]

It's difficult to think of any superhero whose identity is tied to the era they were created in, but I'm sure there are some.

 

Rocketeer maybe?

Captain America is the one that comes to mind the most to me.

 

I don't know much about Rocketeer. I really don't know enough about Captain America to say for sure, but he's the best example I can think of. You may be able to translate him from World War 2 to another war as the Iron Man film translated Stark from the 1960s being kidnapped by the Vietnamese to him being kidnapped by an Al Qaeda-type group in the 2000s. Certainly due to nuclear weapons there hasn't been another war like WW2 so translating him to any later war seems less epic, but it may be possible. It does seem fairly challenging though without some brainstorming to make him as compelling as Cap was.

[CR]

Ok. My own personal reaction to JB's comments on seeing the first pictures of Jessica Alba as Sue Storm seemed to me as if he was unhappy that a Latino woman was cast.

 

It was based on this quote: "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades."

 

Since anything relating to this has been wiped from JB's forum, I can not quote on his actual feelings about the subject, I can only, based upon that quote, make my own assumption that he did not view the casting as favorable.

 

 

Well, at least we know what type of hookers John Byrne prefers.

[THB]

Forget racism and such for a second. What ever happened to translating the comic in it's original form right to a movie? The foundation of interest has always been from the fans themselves. The largest amount of frustration fans experience is when their expectations are not congruent with what has been produced. There have been a number of explanations as to why this occurs: one being that the attributes of some characters are owned or have been created by different individuals, thus making it difficult to translate directly.

As an example, and just an example: let's take Spiderman. In one take on spiderman, he's got the ability to shoot webs out of his hands without the use of web-shooters that he developed in the comics. In fact, in the comics this dependence upon that technology leads to different interesting occurrences....whereas in the movie they worked around that my making him essentially mutate as a result of the spider-bite thus enabling him to create this webbing internally. I'm not saying that's what happened: I'm not sure if there are different contributors to the origin of spiderman and his various attributes...but that demonstrates a major departure from the comics. Likewise, sometimes various things are eliminated from movies as a result of the complex ownership arrangements.

 

This recent development where a character of a different race or color has been selected potentially to play the human torch doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe someone is looking to contemporize the character, but I'll ask the original question: when possible, why not make a direct translation of the character as best you can to the big screen?

I will say I was utterly disappointed with Marvel's treatment of the Mandarin in the recent Iron Man 3 film. I was not only surprised, but the entire plot twist was a huge turn-off after that point. They took too big a leap and changed a character that in my mind should have been portrayed as completely different from the finished product. That could have been handled in so many different 'contemporary' ways including making him appear to be some sort of "Osama bin Laden" character.....however making him an actor portraying the Mandarin was a very low blow. They minimized his importance in the comics and that move is irrevocable.

 

My suggestion to the filmmakers: be true to the fans. Try to support their interest before dilluting the brand to cater to the masses. If possible attempt to do both. The IM franchise lost my interest after this recent debacle and with the history of FF movies being rather weak, I was hoping they'd do a better job with all forthcoming movies. There's plenty of opportunity to bring African American heroes to the big screen, why not work with the ones that are already established rather than try to inject them forcefully into a project that will unduly upset the established fan base?

 

I think Joss has already proved you can make a real comic book movie and it will appeal to the masses. Other Producers/Directors who don't have the imagination to grasp the source material make buddy movies like IM3.

[fantastic_four]

Having said that, I may be liking mainly her looks and certain cute gestures which I suspect I will grow quite tired of by the time I've watched the whole series!

 

You will. She is quite useless in that show. But, definitely worth watching! (although this season is a bit slow so far)

 

I don't blame January Jones for this, but I have no idea why she's even been in the series since Don Draper remarried. She's barely in the show, and when she is, she's written to serve zero purpose to the story, yet they keep showing her.

 

You just spoiled me!

 

Of course I'm joking and don't actually care. I'm watching a 6 year old show after all!

 

Oh, oops, my bad. I let spoilers rip in threads about a show or movie, but this isn't a Mad Men thread, so my bad.

[Maccai3]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

and white...

 

Batman's father was a surgeon that age wise would have been a profession that would have had 0% black people

 

tell me i'm wrong

 

Well? Through history, I guess you are proven wrong. Right?

 

were they also billionaires?

 

One historic fact at a time. So there were black surgeons even around 1863, let alone 1939-1940. So 0% seems to be slightly off.

 

okay it's off but his father was white and so was he...i prefer characters to be developed rather than just changed to please an audience that may not exist. John Stewart was a great Green Lantern, they could have just turned Hal black but they didn't. Even black Catwoman had a different name

[Bosco685]

okay it's off but his father was white and so was he...i prefer characters to be developed rather than just changed to please an audience that may not exist. John Stewart was a great Green Lantern, they could have just turned Hal black but they didn't. Even black Catwoman had a different name

 

Now that I can respect more in that this is your belief with comic book-based movies.

 

But I still think some change to the characters to drive greater interest is totally okay as long as it leads to a solid movie. But that's just my opinion. I would never want a character altererd just for the craziness of it, and nothing good comes of the change.

[Logan510]

Putting aside the awful image posted by someone earlier - has anyone actually thought about the potential outcry when a Black guy goes up in flames?

 

Aside from people obsessed about race, no one is going to be upset over a non-caucasian Human Torch.

 

 

Thanks for proving my point.

 

 

 

Oh? John Byrne was vocal about his unhappiness that Sue Storm was played by a latino actress.

 

If you're going to cast aspersions, at least get it right.

 

Ok. My own personal reaction to JB's comments on seeing the first pictures of Jessica Alba as Sue Storm seemed to me as if he was unhappy that a Latino woman was cast.

 

It was based on this quote: "Personal prejudice: Hispanic and Latino women with blond hair look like hookers to me, no matter how clean or "cute" they are. Somehow those skin tones that look so good with dark, dark hair just don't work for me with lighter shades."

 

Since anything relating to this has been wiped from JB's forum, I can not quote on his actual feelings about the subject, I can only, based upon that quote, make my own assumption that he did not view the casting as favorable.

 

 

She was miscast in the role IMHO. I do know that he's one of the most liberal / non racist people I've come across...if you pay attention.

[CR]

Having said that, I may be liking mainly her looks and certain cute gestures which I suspect I will grow quite tired of by the time I've watched the whole series!

 

You will. She is quite useless in that show. But, definitely worth watching! (although this season is a bit slow so far)

 

I don't blame January Jones for this, but I have no idea why she's even been in the series since Don Draper remarried. She's barely in the show, and when she is, she's written to serve zero purpose to the story, yet they keep showing her.

 

You just spoiled me!

 

Of course I'm joking and don't actually care. I'm watching a 6 year old show after all!

 

Oh, oops, my bad. I let spoilers rip in threads about a show or movie, but this isn't a Mad Men thread, so my bad.

 

It's okay. At least you didn't mention when Sally gets killed in that car crash. Or when Joan leaves the agency and becomes an escort.

[Maccai3]

okay it's off but his father was white and so was he...i prefer characters to be developed rather than just changed to please an audience that may not exist. John Stewart was a great Green Lantern, they could have just turned Hal black but they didn't. Even black Catwoman had a different name

 

Now that I can respect more in that this is your belief with comic book-based movies.

 

But I still think some change to the characters to drive greater interest is totally okay as long as it leads to a solid movie. But that's just my opinion. I would never want a character altererd just for the craziness of it, and nothing good comes of the change.

 

a more ethenically diverse universe would be great...it seems like a publicity stunt for me though...and boy is it working

[Logan510]

Forget racism and such for a second. What ever happened to translating the comic in it's original form right to a movie? The foundation of interest has always been from the fans themselves. The largest amount of frustration fans experience is when their expectations are not congruent with what has been produced. There have been a number of explanations as to why this occurs: one being that the attributes of some characters are owned or have been created by different individuals, thus making it difficult to translate directly.

As an example, and just an example: let's take Spiderman. In one take on spiderman, he's got the ability to shoot webs out of his hands without the use of web-shooters that he developed in the comics. In fact, in the comics this dependence upon that technology leads to different interesting occurrences....whereas in the movie they worked around that my making him essentially mutate as a result of the spider-bite thus enabling him to create this webbing internally. I'm not saying that's what happened: I'm not sure if there are different contributors to the origin of spiderman and his various attributes...but that demonstrates a major departure from the comics. Likewise, sometimes various things are eliminated from movies as a result of the complex ownership arrangements.

 

This recent development where a character of a different race or color has been selected potentially to play the human torch doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe someone is looking to contemporize the character, but I'll ask the original question: when possible, why not make a direct translation of the character as best you can to the big screen?

I will say I was utterly disappointed with Marvel's treatment of the Mandarin in the recent Iron Man 3 film. I was not only surprised, but the entire plot twist was a huge turn-off after that point. They took too big a leap and changed a character that in my mind should have been portrayed as completely different from the finished product. That could have been handled in so many different 'contemporary' ways including making him appear to be some sort of "Osama bin Laden" character.....however making him an actor portraying the Mandarin was a very low blow. They minimized his importance in the comics and that move is irrevocable.

 

My suggestion to the filmmakers: be true to the fans. Try to support their interest before dilluting the brand to cater to the masses. If possible attempt to do both. The IM franchise lost my interest after this recent debacle and with the history of FF movies being rather weak, I was hoping they'd do a better job with all forthcoming movies. There's plenty of opportunity to bring African American heroes to the big screen, why not work with the ones that are already established rather than try to inject them forcefully into a project that will unduly upset the established fan base?

 

I think Joss has already proved you can make a real comic book movie and it will appeal to the masses. Other Producers/Directors who don't have the imagination to grasp the source material make buddy movies like IM3.

 

 

[Mr.Diggler]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

And I'm being called a racist...wow.

 

Er, I just jumped in here so I don't know about you being called anything.

 

But you better watch what you say to me.

 

Is that a threat?

Sweet.