Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[Bosco685]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

[Logan510]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

 

Now you know how I feel when I read that same argument thrown my way.

[miraclemet]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

[Dr. Balls]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

It's a never-ending argument. A stupid one, at that.

 

Shoe-horning an actor into a role he is not visually representative of is very much indicative of how unoriginal many of the "creative" people are in Hollywood right now.

 

It has nothing to do with race at all - it has to do with visually representing what people have been looking at for 60 years. It's a branding principal to use similar imagery to sell your product across different mediums. Changing that imagery creates unecessary confusion in the marketplace and not only generates negative buzz, but calls into question the intelligence of the entity who proposes such a moronic course of action for their valuable product.

[Logan510]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

[Logan510]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

It's a never-ending argument. A stupid one, at that.

 

Shoe-horning an actor into a role he is not visually representative of is very much indicative of how unoriginal many of the "creative" people are in Hollywood right now.

 

It has nothing to do with race at all - it has to do with visually representing what people have been looking at for 60 years. It's a branding principal to use similar imagery to sell your product across different mediums. Changing that imagery creates unecessary confusion in the marketplace and not only generates negative buzz, but calls into question the intelligence of the entity who proposes such a moronic course of action for their valuable product.

 

You must be a racist.

 

 

 

 

[The Troll King]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

It's a never-ending argument. A stupid one, at that.

 

Shoe-horning an actor into a role he is not visually representative of is very much indicative of how unoriginal many of the "creative" people are in Hollywood right now.

 

It has nothing to do with race at all - it has to do with visually representing what people have been looking at for 60 years. It's a branding principal to use similar imagery to sell your product across different mediums. Changing that imagery creates unecessary confusion in the marketplace and not only generates negative buzz, but calls into question the intelligence of the entity who proposes such a moronic course of action for their valuable product.

 

A level-headed, business minded approach?

I like it.

 

New Coke anyone?

[miraclemet]

got it, people wont accept something that doesnt look like their 50+ years of continuity...

 

wait did someone say something?

[He11blazer]

I still remember the "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" episode of Star Trek that Roddenberry wrote under his pen name, Lee Cronin. Depending on what side your color was on, this made you a more qualified living being, and the other a slave.

 

 

The genius of this episode is that I absolutely did not notice the difference until they explained it near the end.

[Dr. Balls]

got it, people wont accept something that doesnt look like their 50+ years of continuity...

 

wait did someone say something?

 

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

[He11blazer]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

[Comicopolis]

got it, people wont accept something that doesnt look like their 50+ years of continuity...

 

wait did someone say something?

 

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

 

Market confusion? Are you sure?

[Comicopolis]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

As long as he fixes hot rods and shags lots of blond bimbos what's the problem?

[He11blazer]

got it, people wont accept something that doesnt look like their 50+ years of continuity...

 

wait did someone say something?

 

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

 

Market confusion? Are you sure?

 

Wait, that black dude in Avengers is Nick Fury?

[Bosco685]

I still remember the "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" episode of Star Trek that Roddenberry wrote under his pen name, Lee Cronin. Depending on what side your color was on, this made you a more qualified living being, and the other a slave.

 

 

The genius of this episode is that I absolutely did not notice the difference until they explained it near the end.

 

Exactly!

 

They had wiped each other out over skin color placement being different. But being 6 years old when I saw this for the first time, I had to ask my father why the two men hated each other so much since they were both black and white. He told me it was due to people's ignorance over skin color.

[Maccai3]

surely Thing would be the candidate out of the FF that'd take the race swap with least trouble

[He11blazer]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

As long as he fixes hot rods and shags lots of blond bimbos what's the problem?

 

He was a git to Spidey early on. I don't like him.

[Comicopolis]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

As long as he fixes hot rods and shags lots of blond bimbos what's the problem?

 

He was a git to Spidey early on. I don't like him.

 

He was a hot head.

[fantastic_four]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

Exactly. Similarly, you can't have a white actor play T'Challa, the Black Panther, because he's the leader of an all-black fictional African nation. Johnny or Sue Storm's race is not at all integral to what makes the Fantastic Four the Fantastic Four.

[fantastic_four]

I think more then any of the main Marvel superheroes, the FF were a product of their era and time. The Space Race. Threats of Alien invaders. The Cold War. The Counter Culture revolution. Taking them out of that context and putting them into the modern world is an endeavor doomed to failure I believe.

 

Disagree. The events of the 1960s are not one of the primary reasons people liked or continue to like the Fantastic Four. What people like about them translates to any era.