Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[Comicopolis]

If they decide to make the Thing's 'skin' green instead of orange will everybody be equally upset?

[fantastic_four]

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

 

What you're describing was the entire purpose behind Marvel's "Ultimate" line of books. Fans loved it and sales were great, aside from the ones with the static mindset you're describing. I loved the stories and they absolutely were improvements on the originals in most regards. They made Nick Fury in that comic black and intentionally modeled him after Samuel L. Jackson because Samuel L. Jackson is quite the bad-. They actually asked him if he was OK with them using his face as the model for the art and he agreed; it was a great change. Most of the screenwriters and directors of the films have agreed and have borrowed heavily from the Ultimate versions of the characters.

 

I suspect Stan Lee would agree with most of the Ultimate changes to his characters. They did a decent job of preserving what was unique and compelling about the originals while fixing some of the things Stan didn't get quite right the first time around. Stan wasn't free to make his characters black in the early 60s...he was courting controversy enough just to create T'Challa as a hero by the mid-60s.

[fantastic_four]

If they decide to make the Thing's 'skin' green instead of orange will everybody be equally upset?

 

Many will. That's another detail that really doesn't matter.

[Logan510]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

And I'm being called a racist...wow.

[He11blazer]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

And I'm being called a racist...wow.

 

Er, I just jumped in here so I don't know about you being called anything.

 

But you better watch what you say to me.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

[He11blazer]

In before the lock?

 

It's on the cards.

[Logan510]

 

If skin color and race was trivial we would not have these debates. Why must we be apologists and then be called racist for wanting to see the character we have read about for 40+ years?

 

someone making the argument that in a role where race is not a key factor of plot that the race of an actor is important and therefore thinks actors of one race are better suited for the role over actors of another race is playing in the grey area of rascism.

 

Now if you argued that only an African american (or African, or other African descent) actor could play Jackie Robinson, no one would call you racist, because the characters race is core to the point and plot of the story. If you change his race, you change THE story.

 

Johnny Storms ethnicity/race is not germane to THE story. Especially a more modern version of the story. Blended families are far more common than 50 years ago, so the presence of blended families on screen, even those that dont stay true to the source material, arent much cause for uproar.

 

 

 

But if it's a great actor who's perfect for the role, why should it matter as long as he or she does a good job and the movie turns out great?

 

( see how silly this is?)

 

it's like you are being intentionally obtuse.

 

Did you read the part about when race is germane to the story?

 

Do you feel that Johnny's race is key to the story & his character?

 

 

It has nothing to do with the race of an established character. What matters is getting the best actor for the role regardless of race and dare I say gender.

 

Do you feel race is key to the story and character of Black Panther or Luke Cage?

 

YES! Black Panther and Luke Cage were conceived very specifically as black characters. It is absolutely fundamental to who they are. It is their raison d'etre!

 

Johnny Storm was conceived of as a plucky kid. It makes no difference if he's black or white because everything about his character design and reason for being can fit either a black or white teenage boy.

 

And I'm being called a racist...wow.

 

Er, I just jumped in here so I don't know about you being called anything.

 

But you better watch what you say to me.

 

Is that a threat?

[Logan510]

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

 

What you're describing was the entire purpose behind Marvel's "Ultimate" line of books. Fans loved it and sales were great, aside from the ones with the static mindset you're describing. I loved the stories and they absolutely were improvements on the originals in most regards. They made Nick Fury in that comic black and intentionally modeled him after Samuel L. Jackson because Samuel L. Jackson is quite the bad-. They actually asked him if he was OK with them using his face as the model for the art and he agreed; it was a great change. Most of the screenwriters and directors of the films have agreed and have borrowed heavily from the Ultimate versions of the characters.

 

I suspect Stan Lee would agree with most of the Ultimate changes to his characters. They did a decent job of preserving what was unique and compelling about the originals while fixing some of the things Stan didn't get quite right the first time around.

 

I just threw up in my mouth. Thank you.

[Maccai3]

i don't think it'd work...how about a black Joker? with the white facepaint? no?

 

there are plenty of black actors that fit the bill of Johnny Storm's mannerisms and such but he's an established character...black Superman is equally a stupid idea

[fantastic_four]

I'm not saying people won't accept it, but to take 50 years of continuity and throw it out to cast someone completely different in attitude and appearance is a pretty idiotic business decision. Black Nick Fury does absolutely nothing for the character of Nick Fury. Marvel created market confusion for absolutely no reason - because people could care less what color he is, yet they have now split the persona into two different entities.

 

What you're describing was the entire purpose behind Marvel's "Ultimate" line of books. Fans loved it and sales were great, aside from the ones with the static mindset you're describing. I loved the stories and they absolutely were improvements on the originals in most regards. They made Nick Fury in that comic black and intentionally modeled him after Samuel L. Jackson because Samuel L. Jackson is quite the bad-. They actually asked him if he was OK with them using his face as the model for the art and he agreed; it was a great change. Most of the screenwriters and directors of the films have agreed and have borrowed heavily from the Ultimate versions of the characters.

 

I suspect Stan Lee would agree with most of the Ultimate changes to his characters. They did a decent job of preserving what was unique and compelling about the originals while fixing some of the things Stan didn't get quite right the first time around.

 

I just threw up in my mouth. Thank you.

 

Pretty sure I asked you to put me on ignore years ago. If you didn't, it's your own fault. I'll recommend it again--put me on ignore, please.

[He11blazer]

Is that a threat?

 

I'm done with you child. You are beneath my attention.

[Comicopolis]

[Johnny U]

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I think more then any of the main Marvel superheroes, the FF were a product of their era and time. The Space Race. Threats of Alien invaders. The Cold War. The Counter Culture revolution. Taking them out of that context and putting them into the modern world is an endeavor doomed to failure I believe.

 

Disagree. The events of the 1960s are not one of the primary reasons people liked or continue to like the Fantastic Four. What people like about them translates to any era.

 

What specifically? The concept of family? Funny, considering the modern divorce rate and the large number of children being raised by someone other than their parents. No, that's a no-go.

 

How about the question of acceptance and tolerance, something that plagued Ben Grimm as the Thing for years? Considering you can lose your job for simply voicing an intolerant opinion in contemporary society and that we are conditioned to accept everyone, that shouldn't really be a problem for the new Modern Thing.

 

Not trying to be a , but i think we aren't going to agree on this no matter how hard we try.

[Maccai3]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

[Comicopolis]

[Comicopolis]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

Being a billionaire is integral to that character.

 

 

[Comicopolis]

[fantastic_four]

we'll be having a black Batman next...(being white is integral to the character)

 

How's that?