Fantastic Four reboot is already screwed up...

[dupont2005]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

 

 

 

-slym

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

[dupont2005]

Your argument and mine are totally different, obviously.

 

As I mentioned before: I don't want to see a white Shang-Chi, Master Of Kung-Fu. I don't want to see an Asian T'Challa, no matter how recognisable the Black Panther suit is. The people in the suit is what matters. And I want to see the person I have always known in that suit.

 

I also notice that in every example you gave above about others wearing the famous suit, whatever it may be, it always ends up back on the person that started wearing it. Steve Rogers is BACK to being Captain America. Peter Parker returned to being Spider Man after Ben Reilly played his part. Tony Stark is still IM. And Bruce Wayne is Batman again. I wonder why that is...

 

(hint: it isn't because they are white.)

 

 

 

-slym

Please explain to me why in a reboot the Wayne family can't be black, why the Storm family can't be interracial? Please explain to me why Johnny Storm's ethnicity is integral to the character, why the color of Batman's skin is a major part of his essence?

[slym2none]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. But you want people to think that is what I am saying.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the FF doesn't even have to go into space to get their powers. I cry BS on that. IMHO, it matters greatly that they do get their powers in the same way. Now, do they need to go in an Apollo rocket? No, because that isn't current. But to be bombarded by space rays to get their powers, yes.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

Your argument and mine are totally different, obviously.

 

As I mentioned before: I don't want to see a white Shang-Chi, Master Of Kung-Fu. I don't want to see an Asian T'Challa, no matter how recognisable the Black Panther suit is. The people in the suit is what matters. And I want to see the person I have always known in that suit.

 

I also notice that in every example you gave above about others wearing the famous suit, whatever it may be, it always ends up back on the person that started wearing it. Steve Rogers is BACK to being Captain America. Peter Parker returned to being Spider Man after Ben Reilly played his part. Tony Stark is still IM. And Bruce Wayne is Batman again. I wonder why that is...

Please explain to me why in a reboot the Wayne family can't be black, why the Storm family can't be interracial? Please explain to me why Johnny Storm's ethnicity is integral to the character, why the color of Batman's skin is a major part of his essence?

 

Because that isn't who the characters are.

 

Simple as that.

 

Why not have a white T'Challa, or an Italian Luke Cage? Why not have a black Shang Chi? Why not have a Middle Eastern Falcon?

 

Because it isn't who the characters are.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. But you want people to think that is what I am saying.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the FF doesn't even have to go into space to get their powers. I cry BS on that. IMHO, it matters greatly that they do get their powers in the same way. Now, do they need to go in an Apollo rocket? No, because that isn't current. But to be bombarded by space rays to get their powers, yes.

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

Well I just don't get the reasoning behind that. If we were going to see a Zorro reboot would it have to be set in contemporary 2013?

[slym2none]

I also notice that in every example you gave above about others wearing the famous suit, whatever it may be, it always ends up back on the person that started wearing it. Steve Rogers is BACK to being Captain America. Peter Parker returned to being Spider Man after Ben Reilly played his part. Tony Stark is still IM. And Bruce Wayne is Batman again. I wonder why that is...

 

(hint: it isn't because they are white.)

 

I answered your question - do you have a reason for why my above quote is true?

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

Your argument and mine are totally different, obviously.

 

As I mentioned before: I don't want to see a white Shang-Chi, Master Of Kung-Fu. I don't want to see an Asian T'Challa, no matter how recognisable the Black Panther suit is. The people in the suit is what matters. And I want to see the person I have always known in that suit.

 

I also notice that in every example you gave above about others wearing the famous suit, whatever it may be, it always ends up back on the person that started wearing it. Steve Rogers is BACK to being Captain America. Peter Parker returned to being Spider Man after Ben Reilly played his part. Tony Stark is still IM. And Bruce Wayne is Batman again. I wonder why that is...

Please explain to me why in a reboot the Wayne family can't be black, why the Storm family can't be interracial? Please explain to me why Johnny Storm's ethnicity is integral to the character, why the color of Batman's skin is a major part of his essence?

 

Because that isn't who the characters are.

 

Simple as that.

 

Why not have a white T'Challa, or an Italian Luke Cage? Why not have a black Shang Chi? Why not have a Middle Eastern Falcon?

 

Because it isn't who the characters are.

 

Simple as that.

 

 

 

-slym

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin. That's not the case with Batman, Spiderman, Captain America, and any number of characters. "Because that's not who they are" isn't a valid answer. The characters change every time a new writer and artist gets ahold of them. This isn't who the Joker is

This is.

 

Reboots regularly reinvent characters. Especially reboots from comic to screen. Everything is different. EVERYTHING. Why is this one thing the sticking point? Why is this the straw that breaks the camel's back? I still haven't gotten a reason beyond "Because that's how it is!"

Obviously it isn't, because the powers that be decided otherwise. So now that Johnny Blaze is black, how has the character changed? What was lost? What would we gain by having a white actor portray him instead? Would the origin have more meaning? Would the plot have more depth? Would the movie be more believable?

[slym2none]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. But you want people to think that is what I am saying.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the FF doesn't even have to go into space to get their powers. I cry BS on that. IMHO, it matters greatly that they do get their powers in the same way. Now, do they need to go in an Apollo rocket? No, because that isn't current. But to be bombarded by space rays to get their powers, yes.

 

:shrug:

Well I just don't get the reasoning behind that. If we were going to see a Zorro reboot would it have to be set in contemporary 2013?

 

Grasp at straws much?

 

As long as the FF was made in the Space-Age, it would be OK by me. I said they don't have to go up in an Apollo rocket, but if they did, I'd be OK with that. But you wouldn't put the FF in mid-1700's America. Now I am sure with MAJOR changes, you could set Zorro in modern times, but it would be more of a "based on Zorro" thing. If you want to make Zorro be what everyone recognises as Zorro, you need to put him in his time period.

 

Again, is that so difficult to understand?

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. But you want people to think that is what I am saying.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the FF doesn't even have to go into space to get their powers. I cry BS on that. IMHO, it matters greatly that they do get their powers in the same way. Now, do they need to go in an Apollo rocket? No, because that isn't current. But to be bombarded by space rays to get their powers, yes.

 

:shrug:

Well I just don't get the reasoning behind that. If we were going to see a Zorro reboot would it have to be set in contemporary 2013?

 

Grasp at straws much?

 

As long as the FF was made in the Space-Age, it would be OK by me. I said they don't have to go up in an Apollo rocket, but if they did, I'd be OK with that. But you wouldn't put the FF in mid-1700's America. Now I am sure with MAJOR changes, you could set Zorro in modern times, but it would be more of a "based on Zorro" thing. If you want to make Zorro be what everyone recognises as Zorro, you need to put him in his time period.

 

Again, is that so difficult to understand?

 

 

 

-slym

But I'm not talking about moving the Fantastic four out of the setting of their origin. They originally went into space in the early 60's. Why not keep that the same, if every change is so terrible? Why doesn't that ruin the whole movie like putting a black guy on screen does?

So we keep Zorro in his original setting, but not FF, for reasons unknown. Because nobody would know who the guy in the red sash and black mask carving a Z into the deputies chest was unless he was in Old Mexico.

[slym2none]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin. That's not the case with Batman, Spiderman, Captain America, and any number of characters. "Because that's not who they are" isn't a valid answer.

 

It isn't a valid answer to you. Don't discount that it is a valid answer to me and to others. I am not discounting what you say & feel, please do the same for me.

 

Also, why is the ethnicity of the characters I named so integral to you? Why NOT have a Middle Eastern Black Panther? There are other races in Africa. Why not have an Italian Chang-Chi? There are no other martial artists other than Asians??

 

C'mon.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

If we put her as getting her powers in the 60's, no one would go see the movie because no one wants to see a 70-year old super hero. Time is variable in their dimension, you can't use that. If that's the case, we can't even have these movies, as Bruce Wayne would be long dead. BUT, there is already a case for the time-distortion, otherwise we wouldn't have the comics still, either.

So you're saying major settings and plot devices can change in a reboot to reflect the times, but not the color of anybodies skin.

 

No, I am not saying that at all. But you want people to think that is what I am saying.

 

Someone mentioned earlier that the FF doesn't even have to go into space to get their powers. I cry BS on that. IMHO, it matters greatly that they do get their powers in the same way. Now, do they need to go in an Apollo rocket? No, because that isn't current. But to be bombarded by space rays to get their powers, yes.

 

:shrug:

Well I just don't get the reasoning behind that. If we were going to see a Zorro reboot would it have to be set in contemporary 2013?

 

Grasp at straws much?

 

As long as the FF was made in the Space-Age, it would be OK by me. I said they don't have to go up in an Apollo rocket, but if they did, I'd be OK with that. But you wouldn't put the FF in mid-1700's America. Now I am sure with MAJOR changes, you could set Zorro in modern times, but it would be more of a "based on Zorro" thing. If you want to make Zorro be what everyone recognises as Zorro, you need to put him in his time period.

 

Again, is that so difficult to understand?

But I'm not talking about moving the Fantastic four out of the setting of their origin. They originally went into space in the early 60's. Why not keep that the same, if every change is so terrible? Why doesn't that ruin the whole movie like putting a black guy on screen does?

So we keep Zorro in his original setting, but not FF, for reasons unknown. Because nobody would know who the guy in the red sash and black mask carving a Z into the deputies chest was unless he was in Old Mexico.

 

I just said you can keep the FF in the 60's. I don't care. As long as they go into space to get their powers on a rocket ship.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Prince Namor]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin.

 

The new Ultimate Spider-man is black and Latino. Would it be ok to make him a white or Asian in a movie. It has nothing to do with him as the character.

What about middle eastern? Would the studio do that?

[slym2none]

The biggest thing about not keeping the FF in the 60's is they are not stuck in the 60s now. They had to change because we all changed with time.

 

But as I said before, I have yet to see someone be already full-grown and then grow a foot in height. I have yet to see someone get younger as time goes by. And I have yet to see someone switch race as time goes by. Attitudes, yes - hair colour, sure - style of clothes, definitely. But none of those other things.

 

 

 

-slym

[slym2none]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin.

 

The new Ultimate Spider-man is black and Latino. Would it be ok to make him a white or Asian in a movie. It has nothing to do with him as the character.

What about middle eastern? Would the studio do that?

 

You might as well be talking to a wall, he has repeatedly ignored me every time I bring that up.

 

*sigh*

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin. That's not the case with Batman, Spiderman, Captain America, and any number of characters. "Because that's not who they are" isn't a valid answer.

 

It isn't a valid answer to you. Don't discount that it is a valid answer to me and to others. I am not discounting what you say & feel, please do the same for me.

 

Also, why is the ethnicity of the characters I named so integral to you? Why NOT have a Middle Eastern Black Panther? There are other races in Africa. Why not have an Italian Chang-Chi? There are no other martial artists other than Asians??

 

C'mon.

 

 

 

 

-slym

Black Panther's tribe is heavily based on Bantu culture. Bantu people are black. Chang Chi is an ethnic name. Bruce Wayne is not. And it's not a valid answer. Not just to me, at all. Answer a question on a test with "Because that's just how it is!" and what will your grade be?I can explain to you logically why the Black Panther as a character would be completely changed if his ethnicity were changed. You cannot explain the same about The Human Torch. Because Johnny Blaze is an American. Blaze is not an ethnic name, and even if it were, in the melting pot of America people with ethnic names marry outside their own ethnicity and even adopt in this day and age. Frequently.

 

Now, if Black Panther's reboot didn't include any ties to Africa (and reboots do change origins quite a bit) then he wouldn't necessarily have to be black. But it would be like having Tony Stark not be a billionaire, just some poor Gepetto building mech suits instead of puppets. That's a major change. Much more than a black billionaire Tony Stark I think, because the essence of the character is in their origin, their back story. None of that is lost when Johnny Blaze changes skin color.

[dupont2005]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin.

 

The new Ultimate Spider-man is black and Latino. Would it be ok to make him a white or Asian in a movie. It has nothing to do with him as the character.

What about middle eastern? Would the studio do that?

They already made Spiderman white in a couple movies.

[Prince Namor]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin.

 

The new Ultimate Spider-man is black and Latino. Would it be ok to make him a white or Asian in a movie. It has nothing to do with him as the character.

What about middle eastern? Would the studio do that?

They already made Spiderman white in a couple movies.

 

Yeah, it's best you side step that question as it blows your whole arguement to pieces.

 

[slym2none]

Their are plenty of Muslim people in Africa, I am pretty sure they are not all black. There is no reason a Middle Eastern couldn't become ruler of an African country. Saying that they couldn't is wrong.

 

And I have brought up the Falcon before, and Luke Cage. Why do they have to be black? I can't see one reason the Falcon couldn't be anyone, and Luke Cage only needs to be a street-wise tough, his race is not integral to his character at all. His early upbringing is. Many people can claim that - hell, look at Marshall Mathers, AKA Eminem.

 

 

So, why is it others' race is so integral to their identity, but not Bruce Wayne, or Flash Thompson, or Johnny Storm?

 

 

 

-slym

[dupont2005]

You keep naming characters whose ethnicity is actually an integral part of their origin.

 

The new Ultimate Spider-man is black and Latino. Would it be ok to make him a white or Asian in a movie. It has nothing to do with him as the character.

What about middle eastern? Would the studio do that?

They already made Spiderman white in a couple movies.

 

Yeah, it's best you side step that question as it blows your whole arguement to pieces.

It really doesn't. His name is Morales. There's black guys with the name Peter, there's black guys with the name Parker, there may even be a black Peter Parker in real life. There most likely isn't a white Miles Morales though, right? I guess they could just change his name to Peter Parker, which they would most likely do, since nobody ever heard of Miles Morales. You have to figure the majority of people who go see these movies do not read comic books.

 

I do read comic books. I had never heard the name Miles Morales until today. I don't know his origin story, and I always thought Peter Parker was Ultimate Spiderman too. The color of Peter Parker is irrelevant to me. Morales is an ethnic name though, and I'd imagine his origin story possibly plays on his ethnicity? Like you can go through AF15 with Photoshop, change the Parker's skin color to black, and the story still makes sense. If you go through Ultimate Spiderman and change the Morales family to white people, does it still make sense? I don't read it so I don't know.

[Prince Namor]

For anyone to believe that Hollywood would do this for noble reasons or out of a sense of equality for everyone is naive and silly.

I realize a lot of the arguments for it, are based on each individuals idea of it, and to show everyone how open minded they are or whatever, but to think the studios see it that way is crazy.