Took it right in the spoon from ComicConnect auction...

[originalisbest]

I bought grader notes only note is "whole book tanning."

That's $15 well spent. Still a beauty of a book in any case. (thumbs u

 

 

If it's "whole book tanning" why is it cream to off-white pages?

I think this is just a matter of making very quick notes -- they aren't going for the Tolstoy award.

 

Having seen quite a few Harvey file copies, they are probably referring to excessive tanning of the covers -- this will usually be most noticeable on the inside of the FC and BC as well as the outside of the back cover. It is possible that for the pq to be cr/ow and for the covers to have excessive tanning but it's also possible given the inconsistency of CGC pq designation that, on a different day, they would designate the pages as Lt Tan or Lt Tan/OW.

 

Can you provide back cover scans of a couple of the books?

 

I remember the author (George Suarez - where is he now?) of Tales too Terrible to Tell/Terrorology, commenting on the significant-to-extreme tanning (he called browning) of the Harvey file copies, due to their years of warehouse storage, he found them fairly well less desirable as a result. I wouldn't have the experience adamstrange does in examining multiple examples; but if a goodly (not all) such copies have some degree of tanning, and cgc is more recently tightening on that aspect for PCH, it could help explain things.

[jimbo_707]

I bought grader notes only note is "whole book tanning."

That's $15 well spent. Still a beauty of a book in any case. (thumbs u

 

 

If it's "whole book tanning" why is it cream to off-white pages?

I think this is just a matter of making very quick notes -- they aren't going for the Tolstoy award.

 

Having seen quite a few Harvey file copies, they are probably referring to excessive tanning of the covers -- this will usually be most noticeable on the inside of the FC and BC as well as the outside of the back cover. It is possible that for the pq to be cr/ow and for the covers to have excessive tanning but it's also possible given the inconsistency of CGC pq designation that, on a different day, they would designate the pages as Lt Tan or Lt Tan/OW.

 

Can you provide back cover scans of a couple of the books?

I agree - if there's tanning, it is most likely of the inside covers, not the pages. I have a number of books that have very nice page quality (white in a couple of cases) but still have some tanning of the inside covers.

[AmazingSaul]

I only buy raw books from metro that I am going to read. Since its just an opinion in grade. Anyone can give an opinion. I have had 1 instance the book graded exactly as advertised. Normally they grade lower.

[TheWatcher]

I have a number of books that have very nice page quality (white in a couple of cases) but still have some tanning of the inside covers.

 

The second batch of Crippen books were notorious for this

[Cat-Man_America]

I bought grader notes only note is "whole book tanning."

That's $15 well spent. Still a beauty of a book in any case. (thumbs u

 

 

If it's "whole book tanning" why is it cream to off-white pages?

I think this is just a matter of making very quick notes -- they aren't going for the Tolstoy award.

 

Having seen quite a few Harvey file copies, they are probably referring to excessive tanning of the covers -- this will usually be most noticeable on the inside of the FC and BC as well as the outside of the back cover. It is possible that for the pq to be cr/ow and for the covers to have excessive tanning but it's also possible given the inconsistency of CGC pq designation that, on a different day, they would designate the pages as Lt Tan or Lt Tan/OW.

 

Can you provide back cover scans of a couple of the books?

I agree - if there's tanning, it is most likely of the inside covers, not the pages. I have a number of books that have very nice page quality (white in a couple of cases) but still have some tanning of the inside covers.

 

[font:Times New Roman]It seems to me that the C/OW designation is a bit misleading. It should be Lt. Tan - Off White on the label. Otherwise how is anyone supposed to know that cumulative tanning was even an issue with the grade designation?[/font]

 

 

 

I only buy raw books from metro that I am going to read. Since its just an opinion in grade. Anyone can give an opinion. I have had 1 instance the book graded exactly as advertised. Normally they grade lower.

 

[font:Times New Roman]My experience has been entirely different. Frequently raw books purchased from Metro/CC come back from CGC graded dead-on to one point higher, occasionally a half point to full-point lower. Of course, the grading of flaws is subjective, so as much as a full point variation shouldn't be considered abnormal.

 

This however, ...

 

Chamber of Chills 5 - advertised as 9.0 came back as 6.5

Chamber of Chills 16 - advertised as 9.4 came back as 7.5

Chamber of Chills 11 - advertised as 9.2 came back as 7.0

Chamber of Chills 10 - advertised as 9.0 came back as 7.0

 

...is shocking and probably of great concern to the folks at Metro/ComicConnect. There isn't any way to mitigate subjective grading with a 2 to 2.5 point variation. That's a substantial loss of estimated value when high grade books are corrected down to mid-grade.

 

As I see it the fault for this discrepancy is shared. ComicConnect bears some responsibility for under-assessing PQ in their subjective grading of these books, and CGC bears some responsibility for tightening existing guidelines without providing relevant information about tanning on the label.

 

If "whole book tanning" is the reason for the downgrading, then logic dictates there should be some indication of it on the label (labeling the PQ as C/OW is misleading if tanning is present, as there are plenty of slabbed HG books with the C/OW designation).

 

M'thinks this is a serious enough issue that the folks at ComicConnect and CGC should consider having a summit conference to lock-in more consistent grading parameters/guidelines for the PQ of raw books since CGC's grading policies in this area have tightened. Auction bidders need to have confidence in the consistency of consigned raw book grading. [/font]

[adamstrange]

Otherwise how is anyone supposed to know that cumulative tanning was even an issue with the grade designation?

CGC, by policy, does not make providing the justification for their grade a part of their services. They do provide notes for a fee but make no promise that they are comprehensive or particularly useful to someone who is not a CGC grader.

 

ComicConnect is only responsible for their grading and can use whatever standard they choose. Since CGC does not publish their grading standards, C-connect has only a limited ability to estimate the CGC grade should they choose to do so.

 

I don't believe that C-connects makes any representation as to a relationship between their grades and CGC's grades. Someone that wants a CGC-graded book, should, imho, purchase a book graded & slabbed by CGC. A person should only purchase a raw book if they are comfortable with the seller's grading or with their ability to grade with the right of return should they be dissatisfied.

[pmpknface]

Man, this sucks. I thought that the last batch I got off of Metropolis were possible a bit undergraded, but not by THAT much. I'm looking at a few 5.0 - 6.0 books on their site now and I'm worried....

[adamstrange]

I do know that in some instances Metro / C-connect has worked with a particular buyer to guarantee a minimum grade by CGC.

 

Also, a seller that sees a discrepancy as large as what is described by Mr I-mannered would do well to try and understand what occurred and work to an amicable solution. Knowing that this issue is now widely publicized on the Net, they would do well to address the concerns of future bidders who might be negatively influenced by the examples.

[october]

Here's the worst one in my book...CGC gave this a 6.5. I'm just not seeing it.

 

 

Do you have these in-hand yet? Any chance they were damaged in shipping? No way tanning alone was responsible for that getting a 6.5. I would think shipping damage or stains you didn't notice.

[zzutak]

I have no clue why Gabe's books were graded the way they were. That being said, reputable sellers have treated inside cover tanning (whether it be in the form of a tanning halo or uniform light/moderate/heavy tanning) as a downgradable defect for as long as I've been collecting. CGC has always deducted for it. This is definitely not a new policy.

 

[adamstrange]

CGC has always deducted for it. This is definitely not a new policy.

From my very first observation of CGC grading they have down-graded more on the structural wear/defects than they have for loss of appeal/whiteness. While they have deducted for tanning, it's not been much of a deduction in past years as they have allowed a certain amount of it even in 9.2 - 9.6 copies.

 

The examples you share are old labels where tanning was noted as a courtesy to describe interior defects that could not be known without cracking open the slab. The fact they noted them does not mean that they deducted much for them and, sadly, they no longer provide such notes with the new style label.

 

That being said, reputable sellers have treated inside cover tanning (whether it be in the form of a tanning halo or uniform light/moderate/heavy tanning) as a downgradable defect for as long as I've been collecting.

I would agree but this was not universal as many sellers did not downgrade at all or did not downgrade much. I personally took it into consideration to a greater extent than CGC when I was occasionally selling back in the day.

 

CGC had to take a position and theirs was/is one that, imho, could be considered lenient with respect to tanning and page quality. It's not the only area where I differ with CGC grading practices.

 

[Heronext]

Man, this sucks. I thought that the last batch I got off of Metropolis were possible a bit undergraded, but not by THAT much. I'm looking at a few 5.0 - 6.0 books on their site now and I'm worried....

 

Undergraded or overgraded?

 

Buy CGC only from Metro, unless you can confirm the grade or it's a cheap reader.

[Heronext]

I do know that in some instances Metro / C-connect has worked with a particular buyer to guarantee a minimum grade by CGC.

 

Funny, I was told they didn't guarantee grade. And since a 9.2 is worth half a 9.4 I'm out several hundred dollars. I even pointed out a defect to Frank and said I thought that would knock it down to a 9.2.

 

I bought it anyway so it's on me. I'm just not sure why I'm a better grader than a company in the business for 30 years, and the guy who "invented" the 10-point scale.

[nearmint]

I bought grader notes only note is "whole book tanning."

That's $15 well spent. Still a beauty of a book in any case. (thumbs u

 

 

If it's "whole book tanning" why is it cream to off-white pages?

I think this is just a matter of making very quick notes -- they aren't going for the Tolstoy award.

 

Having seen quite a few Harvey file copies, they are probably referring to excessive tanning of the covers -- this will usually be most noticeable on the inside of the FC and BC as well as the outside of the back cover. It is possible that for the pq to be cr/ow and for the covers to have excessive tanning but it's also possible given the inconsistency of CGC pq designation that, on a different day, they would designate the pages as Lt Tan or Lt Tan/OW.

 

Can you provide back cover scans of a couple of the books?

I agree - if there's tanning, it is most likely of the inside covers, not the pages. I have a number of books that have very nice page quality (white in a couple of cases) but still have some tanning of the inside covers.

 

[font:Times New Roman]It seems to me that the C/OW designation is a bit misleading. It should be Lt. Tan - Off White on the label. Otherwise how is anyone supposed to know that cumulative tanning was even an issue with the grade designation?[/font]

 

Page quality doesn't include the interior covers, so they're not going to downgrade the page quality because of tanning to interior covers. In the good old days, said tanning would be noted on the label, but I don't know if they do that anymore.

[adamstrange]

I do know that in some instances Metro / C-connect has worked with a particular buyer to guarantee a minimum grade by CGC.

 

Funny, I was told they didn't guarantee grade.

 

I'm sure that is their default position but most things in business are negotiable and I do know people who did that. I'm sure they were the exception. I have not asked for a guarantee and they have never offered me one.

[Heronext]

I do know that in some instances Metro / C-connect has worked with a particular buyer to guarantee a minimum grade by CGC.

 

Funny, I was told they didn't guarantee grade.

 

I'm sure that is their default position but most things in business are negotiable and I do know people who did that. I'm sure they were the exception. I have not asked for a guarantee and they have never offered me one.

 

That's how dealers make money - off of people who don't know what's negotiable.

[adamstrange]

I do know that in some instances Metro / C-connect has worked with a particular buyer to guarantee a minimum grade by CGC.

 

Funny, I was told they didn't guarantee grade.

 

I'm sure that is their default position but most things in business are negotiable and I do know people who did that. I'm sure they were the exception. I have not asked for a guarantee and they have never offered me one.

 

That's how dealers make money - off of people who don't know what's negotiable.

 

If you come to them to spend $250 they probably aren't going to be very flexible. If you come to them to spend $250,000 they will probably consider special requests.

[zzutak]

That being said, reputable sellers have treated inside cover tanning (whether it be in the form of a tanning halo or uniform light/moderate/heavy tanning) as a downgradable defect for as long as I've been collecting.

I would agree but this was not universal as many sellers did not downgrade at all or did not downgrade much. I personally took it into consideration to a greater extent than CGC when I was occasionally selling back in the day. CGC had to take a position and theirs was/is one that, imho, could be considered lenient with respect to tanning and page quality. It's not the only area where I differ with CGC grading practices.

That's what happens when a person has handled too many Church, Salida, and White Mountain books.

[Heronext]

If you come to them to spend $250 they probably aren't going to be very flexible. If you come to them to spend $250,000 they will probably consider special requests.

 

Understood.

[adamstrange]

That being said, reputable sellers have treated inside cover tanning (whether it be in the form of a tanning halo or uniform light/moderate/heavy tanning) as a downgradable defect for as long as I've been collecting.

I would agree but this was not universal as many sellers did not downgrade at all or did not downgrade much. I personally took it into consideration to a greater extent than CGC when I was occasionally selling back in the day. CGC had to take a position and theirs was/is one that, imho, could be considered lenient with respect to tanning and page quality. It's not the only area where I differ with CGC grading practices.

That's what happens when a person has handled too many Church, Salida, and White Mountain books.

I resemble that remark