Okajima pedigree 25 25

[Professor K]

On 2/9/2024 at 1:33 PM, jimjum12 said:

This makes the most sense to me. In an oppressive environment that still allowed a family unit, I would think altruism may become even more likely. I've only had a handful of Okajimas, but they seemed well taken care of, and I've seen PLENTY of hoards that were NOT taken care of . GOD BLESS ... 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

some of them only had arrivals on the back, in what seemed like the same handwriting, based on the few I've seen. 

Yeah you saw the photos. Just big tents on a desert with a fence around it. What else would there really be to do besides reading books and magazines and waiting. It's very possible that some non pedigree books still around today came from some of the camps. But most people probably left them behind when they were allowed to leave. Grabbed the bare necessities and got on the first bus out. 

[skypinkblu]

Is there a link to the video? I'd love to see it, but not quite sure how to find it.

[DanCooper]

On 2/9/2024 at 6:19 PM, skypinkblu said:

Is there a link to the video?

 

[BanjerD]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:20 AM, Karen's Pages said:

 

For those interested in the Okajima Pedigree, I posted a video today on my YouTube channel, Karen’s Pages. 

That was a fascinating video!  You have me certainly convinced.

One thought I have about the Okajima / Okagima name.  English phonetic spelling for じま is usually "jima" (Kunrei-shiki romanization), but sometimes the alternative "ZIMA" (Hepburn-shiki romanization).  My guess would be that the brothers perhaps anglicized their name as ~gima because it sounded more American...?

Edited February 10 by BanjerD

[Pickie]

Really amazing video ...

And greetings to your husband @Karen's Pages  

[path4play]

Boom?!  Great research and theory, touching the open questions.  How did we all miss this [(including 50 objects)?  I feel like @Karen's Pages may have done it!  Having studied this to some length myself and pondered the dates and Chicago move I was perplexed.  This seems to explain it. Would like to understand more the stamped copies post sig/numbers.  The definitive closure to this would be the household address of the original estate sale and owner name, I presume.

Edited February 10 by path4play

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:35 PM, adamstrange said:

Outstanding research!

Having watched your video, I think you have established that the wrong Okajima family has been associated with the collection and that family at the Poston camp fits all the known facts to where they should be designated as the original owners.

As to who collected the comics, I don't think we are any closer to knowing how much were bought by/owned by Jayne vs. Mitsuru.  I think the family history you turned up and the types of comics in the collection make me lean towards some Jayne books during WWII, probably a few after, but the vast majority bought by Mitsuru, who saved all of them until they were sold in the 90s.

More might be determined by following up on descendants of those two.

Thank you, adamstrange.  From what I gathered so far, I believe Mitsuru did not have children, but both Happy and Jayne had children.  I contemplated reaching out to them, but thought it would be best to put this video out first since interviewing them was not absolutely critical for establishing the true collectors' identities.  I might try to reach out to them someday, but I struggle with this sometimes.  I think about what Alan Bahr said about Bette's relatives and that they were very private.  While this may be a different side of the family, I'm sensitive to this type of thing and want to be as respectful as possible.

I see other posters' comments.  Thank you so much.  I'll comment on the rest later today.  

[path4play]

So interesting, I love the research.  I do wonder about the code, that was very neat how it lined up with the alpha letters between the days.  The Okajima signature is still by the same hand/pen as the code.  I think it is the other Okajima family as reasoned in the video, and they still signed their own copies as so many people commonly did back in the day.  Otherwise, they would have had to work in the distribution center/store I assume?

Edited February 11 by path4play

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/9/2024 at 1:51 AM, Professor K said:

Hi Karen , you did some incredible research on this. I recently looked into two GA pedigrees and managed to "solve the mystery" of one but it took nowhere near the amount of effort you put in on this. I watched your entire video. Just outstanding research. Have you looked into locating any children of Jayne and Mitsuru? 

Hi Professor K!  adamstrange also asked the same question above your post.  I answered this question when I replied back to his comment about a half hour ago.  I also saw your private message.  I will get back to you soon.  Thanks for watching the video!  I'm so glad you liked it.

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/9/2024 at 10:48 AM, Ricksneatstuff said:

When I saw the length of the video I didn’t think I would make it all the way through, but you did such an outstanding job I was riveted. It makes the story of this pedigree even more fascinating to me now. Excellent job. 

Thank you so much, Rick.  I'm glad you took a chance on my long video.  I was worried that most people would not watch it because of the length.  

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/9/2024 at 1:02 PM, MB1952 said:

Just watch the whole video, amazing work by Karen. Really enjoy- The ending had me in tears. 

Thank You Karen 

Thank you so much, MB1952.  I still get emotional when I watch the photo montage at the end, too.

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/9/2024 at 8:55 PM, BanjerD said:

That was a fascinating video!  You have me certainly convinced.

One thought I have about the Okajima / Okagima name.  English phonetic spelling for じま is usually "jima" (Kunrei-shiki romanization), but sometimes the alternative "ZIMA" (Hepburn-shiki romanization).  My guess would be that the brothers perhaps anglicized their name as ~gima because it sounded more American...?

Hi BanjerD.  I tried to research the spelling of the family name, including the translation of the Japanese Kanji to Romaji.  This was rather difficult, and my husband and I even reached out to his relatives in Japan to ask.  But I think they had a difficult time understanding what we were trying to ask.  One interesting observation that I’ve come across – if you look up Okajima, it seems like the Kanji is different for males (岡島) versus females (岡嶋).  Ultimately, I did not present this because I don’t fully understand it – I just hinted at it in the video.  I like what you said about the romanization, it definitely seems plausible.

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/10/2024 at 2:32 AM, Pickie said:

Really amazing video ...

And greetings to your husband @Karen's Pages  

Thank you so much!  I will let my husband know you said hi.  He'll appreciate it for sure.

[Karen's Pages]

On 2/10/2024 at 1:01 PM, path4play said:

Boom?!  Great research and theory, touching the open questions.  How did we all miss this [(including 50 objects)?  I feel like @Karen's Pages may have done it!  Having studied this to some length myself and pondered the dates and Chicago move I was perplexed.  This seems to explain it. Would like to understand more the stamped copies post sig/numbers.  The definitive closure to this would be the household address of the original estate sale and owner name, I presume.

How was this missed?  In my humble opinion, the 50 Objects article was not about researching the origin of the Okajima pedigree, but more about telling an interesting story that would support an existing narrative around Bette in the most detailed manner to date.  I’m not trying to put down this article since it helped fuel my interest in the Okajima Pedigree (and their article was about “one object” out of 24 in their larger history project).  The research I pursued was never supporting in nature, and I tried to follow the research in whatever direction it took me.  I think that was the difference between prior attempts and mine.  I also did a ton of research.  I actually showed a small fraction of what I found in my video.  But the video was an hour long already and I was concerned that no one would want to watch it. 

[sfcityduck]

On 2/9/2024 at 3:30 PM, DanCooper said:

 

You really put in a great effort on this!

I have to say that there has been a LOT of healthy skepticism on this thread about the Bette story (me included). These included observations about how the Chicago story was impossible due to the date that certain comics were issued. As I once posted:

On 6/5/2022 at 11:21 PM, sfcityduck said:

This is the book that needs to be explained away if you think the post October 1943 books are not camp books:

Having said that, you looked beyond some conventional wisdom that blinded others and have come up with an interesting theory that may well be correct. You took the time to research the original documents. I am super happy to see more of this kind of research effort. I've gone on my quests, and its nice to see others putting in this effort. Congrats!

I do think a lot of folks have been misdirected because what other "in the know" collectors have said. So how does your theory account for Alan Bahr's story that: "he found a letter neatly folded inside Tip Top #102, written by the young girl while in the internment camp. She described life in the camp, which fascinated Alan so much he began to actively pursue the other parts of the collection."? As I understand it, that letter was written by Bette and was the source of his handwriting comparison. Did Alan give you some better info or have you seen the letter?

(I hate handwriting comparisons. Back then everyone was learning cursive by copying. So a lot of handwriting looked similar. There are Bette examples that seem to match up if you are into that kind of thing. I'm not.) 

I'm also curious if you've dug deeper into the the family relationships. It looks like Bette and Jayne were just a year apart in age, right?. So they must have been in H.S. within a year of each other. Have you found a yearbook with both of them in it?

Also, it is worth noting that Bette Okajima married Toshio Nakamura. There was a Toshio Nakamura of Woodlake, CA, who was interned in Poston. Interestingly, Niles Masamuro "Happy" Okajima married Janis Shima Nakamura of Woodlake, CA (Toshio of Woodlake's sister given their ID numbers and ages). 

Finally, I'm curious if the family recalls a yard/estate sale or any comics?  

Bette's family adamantly denied that the family would ever hold a yard/estate sale. It may have been a cultural thing (which would cut against your theory). On the other hand, one of Bette's closer relatives denied there was ever a comic collection in Sanger at all (which could support your theory). 

One last point: I've seen a fair number of pictures of comics in internment camps and I've never seen a "ledger" marking. I do agree that the markings are probably in the nature of a store mark for returns (like a date received stamp) but I'm having trouble believing it was more than that. I'd be curious to see pics of comics in Poston. I haven't gone to look, but someone should. Or you could ask the Poston internees group if they have info on comics.

I think you advanced the ball and maybe got the right family but I'm not sure the story on this pedigree is done being told.

 

 

 

Edited February 11 by sfcityduck

[Kevin.J]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:52 PM, Karen's Pages said:

I'm glad you took a chance on my long video.  I was worried that most people would not watch it because of the length.

Hi Karen, I have always been interested in the Okajima pedigree (even though I only have 2 lowly books) the story has always been fascinating.

I started to watch your video only planning on flicking through it due to the length, wow, the time really flew by and your style and emotion on the subject really came through the screen and I found myself hooked in after a few short minutes and I never wanted it to end.

I do really think you are on to something and have advanced the story massively, thanks for all the hard work and study that most of us just cant be bothered to do 

 

[CJ Design]

Karen's Research was fantastic and it came through on the video succinctly, and very well executed.

[miraclemet]

On 2/8/2024 at 9:20 PM, Karen's Pages said:

 

For those interested in the Okajima Pedigree, I posted a video today on my YouTube channel, Karen’s Pages.  I’ve researched this pedigree for the past couple of months and I believe I have discovered whom these comic books belong to.  Also, I believe I answer a lot of the questions/mysteries that have been posted in this thread.  The information that everyone has posted in this thread over the last decade was extremely helpful, especially images of the Okajima Pedigree books.  I sincerely hope you enjoy the video and I appreciate any comments.  Thank you. ~Karen

Super enjoyed the video Karen!

"a complete set of coded books will never be found" 

 

Other thoughts...

• The community analysis report part was very interesting. It makes me ask, is the implication that there are other periodicals with the same type code on them? 
• Im with you on any sort of gender-ing of comic types to one person or another is specious at best and not a good way to prove or disprove who the collection was collected by. 
• Whiz 58 (noted "8/22/44, 4T, Camp I") and Mystery Comics 2 (noted "8/9/44, Camp 3") very interesting. There are other comics with codes but no "Okajima" including Big Shot 49 (4M, 8/2/44) Superman #31 ("4xv" no date, no script). (Im gonna post the link to my google doc with all the camp coded books in a separate post) 
• Jane vs Mitsuru. Love the analysis of the Sensation #35. 
• Okajima vis Gima. My wife's family (immigrated from Italy in the 30s) has a mix of spellings thanks to Ellis Island (with the family just adopting the spelling here and there if it was on a particular document), so yeah, sounds plausible. 

 

Just a great analysis and creation of a very reasonable narrative based on the historical information that you dug up. If the Pedigree book ever gets published, they should DEFINATELY reach out to you to update the likely history of the collection. 

 

[miraclemet]

Here's a link to my Okajima camp era google doc. 
If you see any missing books or inaccuracies, please let me know!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19iTb-FgQtnxN-2ArjSZHPsagovaKcIrfkB3AqL-ZNFo/edit?usp=sharing

[miraclemet]

I only popped back in the thread to add a new purchase. A book previously not on my list, 2N coded, (and now Im gonna keep track of Okajima vs Okagima) OkaGima script 3-2-44 Jumbo Comics #64

Edited March 25 by miraclemet