Marvel Zombie Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 Why doesn't that label say the book has been trimmed ? -J. Is trimmed still a dealbreaker? a three side trimmed resto tec 27 went for 140 K recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 Why doesn't that label say the book has been trimmed ? -J. good question, it does state "from a bound volume" so maybe it is assumed that has the same meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 Why doesn't that label say the book has been trimmed ? -J. good question, it does state "from a bound volume" so maybe it is assumed that has the same meaning. Those labels seem to be "seller friendly" when it comes to resto/trimmed books. I wonder if that's why they went that particular route for these particular bats books. But if a book has been trimmed I don't see how there's anyway that doesn't get mentioned on the label. Maybe it's in the "free graders' notes"? -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfish Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Batman #1 Billy Wright 8.5 white pages My copy http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-billy-wright-pedigree-dc-1940-cgc-vf-85-white-pages/a/7054-91047.s#Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Batman #1 Billy Wright 8.5 white pages My copy http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-billy-wright-pedigree-dc-1940-cgc-vf-85-white-pages/a/7054-91047.s#Photo You are a fortunate person indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase22gr1959 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Batman #1 Billy Wright 8.5 white pages My copy http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-billy-wright-pedigree-dc-1940-cgc-vf-85-white-pages/a/7054-91047.s#Photo You are a fortunate person indeed! Indeed! That is an awesome Billy Book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Knight Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Batman #1 Billy Wright 8.5 white pages My copy http://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-billy-wright-pedigree-dc-1940-cgc-vf-85-white-pages/a/7054-91047.s#Photo WOW! Welcome to the boards and congrats on the nice pickup! I'm wondering if I should upgrade my copy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 (edited) Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 Why doesn't that label say the book has been trimmed ? -J. good question, it does state "from a bound volume" so maybe it is assumed that has the same meaning. Those labels seem to be "seller friendly" when it comes to resto/trimmed books. I wonder if that's why they went that particular route for these particular bats books. But if a book has been trimmed I don't see how there's anyway that doesn't get mentioned on the label. Maybe it's in the "free graders' notes"? -J. The choice of CBCS was not about preferring them to CGC or slighting CGC in any way. It was a timing issue that came up suddenly on a Friday, mid-day. There was a small window for slabbing that opened when there was a delay with Warner Brothers, which was about to display them in their museum's Batman exhibit. CBCS was ready to go and get them back in time for WB's needs, so a decision had to be made basically that minute whether to send or not to send. Certainly it would make the labels consistent if each book had the word trimmed on the label,and I would prefer it be consistent. But there is no question that every potential bidder will know they are trimmed. It's impossible to look at them without knowing that. And the listings say it (sometimes several times in the same listing) As for what's "seller friendly," I think it would be better for selling if labels consistently indicated when a missing page did or did not affect the elements that make the book valuable. In this case, the missing pages of some books do not affect the Batman story but the labels just say "affects story" Most buyers probably take that to mean the Batman story is affected, while a few savvy buyers can figure out when it doesn't. (On the reverse, it's easy to find graded books with a missing cover or even the key story missing, but the label says "classic cover" or "1st appearance of..." even though what's in the slab doesn't actually contain any portion of the value-enhancing things listed on the label. (Of course I think that policy is same for all grading companies, so nobody has the option of getting a label that is more friendly one way or the other) So I think that, in general, some policies favor sellers as well as buyers. But in the case of the Kane copies that have missing pages without affecting the Batman story, the policy employed here favors the buyers. Some people have looked at them and asked why they are poor, because they have seen other books graded poor which look far worse. They are graded poor in large part because they are trimmed. So, they are trimmed but not "resto"/trimmed. There is no way to conclude the books have been improved by the binder trimming. Ultimately, the Kane books should have the pages reinforced in a way that doesn't increase the grade or completeness but simply conserves the interior pages. If done under CBCS' supervision they will keep the Kane provenance notation intact on the label which would also note whatever restoration or conservation has been done. I would presume the same be may so with CGC. But I can't speak for them about that with certainty. I had some very pleasant and constructive conversations with people at CGC about these books, and they agreed they would note the Kane provenance, but we didn't really cover whether they'd keep the provenance if and when some restoration/conservation is done. The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Edited August 20, 2014 by bluechip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted August 19, 2014 Author Share Posted August 19, 2014 Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 It's now up to $15,200 with reserve not met. No doubt the Kane copy factor makes this book more desirable, but it's still impressive to see a Batman #1 in this grade do so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Comic Connect "Bob Kane file copy" up to $12, 209, with reserve not met, http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=566830 It's now up to $15,200 with reserve not met. No doubt the Kane copy factor makes this book more desirable, but it's still impressive to see a Batman #1 in this grade do so well. With results like this we will undoubtedly be seeing a multitude of purple label books breaking free and finding new homes. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 would be nice to see the book meet the reserve price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. Edited August 20, 2014 by bluechip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. My point being that the book has in fact already had things done to it that are conspicuously absent from the current grading company label. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. My point being that the book has in fact already had things done to it that are conspicuously absent from the current grading company label. -J. Now I really don't know what you're talking about. Especially since your initial comment was about restoration. There is clearly no restoration to the book. If you're talking about the trimming, as others have mentioned, I agree it would be best if the label had the word trimmed. Or at least that it was consistent so that it said (or didn't say) trimmed, consistently, on each book. if I thought there was any chance that a person who could afford this book would look at the book with all the obvious trimming and then look at the listing with all the words about trimming -- and still not figure out it's trimmed -- I would insist on reslabbing it to make sure that word is on the label. But I really don't have any doubt that every bidder will know. (And if I really thought somebody wouldn't know, I would have to question whether such a person would be able to figure out it's trimmed no matter how many ways they were told). And even then I would have to say it's got the lowest grade possible. It's got the same grade as other books would get even if they were unreadable, unholdable, unenjoyable and immensely displeasing to look at with horribly defaced and degraded cover images, etc. I've seen people looking at these in the Warner Brothers exhibit, and nobody's had that reaction. (in fact the only comments about the grade were to the opposite, that it looked much better than "poor") Edited August 20, 2014 by bluechip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. My point being that the book has in fact already had things done to it that are conspicuously absent from the current grading company label. -J. Now I really don't know what you're talking about. Especially since your initial comment was about restoration. There is clearly no restoration to the book. If you're talking about the trimming, as others have mentioned, I agree it would be best if the label had the word trimmed. Or at least that it was consistent so that it said (or didn't say) trimmed, consistently, on each book. if I thought there was any chance that a person who could afford this book would look at the book with all the obvious trimming and then look at the listing with all the words about trimming -- and still not figure out it's trimmed -- I would insist on reslabbing it to make sure that word is on the label. But I really don't have any doubt that every bidder will know. (And if I really thought somebody wouldn't know, I would have to question whether such a person would be able to figure out it's trimmed no matter how many ways they were told). And even then I would have to say it's got the lowest grade possible. It's got the same grade as other books would get even if they were unreadable, unholdable, unenjoyable and immensely displeasing to look at with horribly defaced and degraded cover images, etc. I've seen people looking at these in the Warner Brothers exhibit, and nobody's had that reaction. (in fact the only comments about the grade were to the opposite, that it looked much better than "poor") No offense to the book, it is what it is. My only issue is with the degree of disclosure on the grading company label. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluechip Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. My point being that the book has in fact already had things done to it that are conspicuously absent from the current grading company label. -J. Now I really don't know what you're talking about. Especially since your initial comment was about restoration. There is clearly no restoration to the book. If you're talking about the trimming, as others have mentioned, I agree it would be best if the label had the word trimmed. Or at least that it was consistent so that it said (or didn't say) trimmed, consistently, on each book. if I thought there was any chance that a person who could afford this book would look at the book with all the obvious trimming and then look at the listing with all the words about trimming -- and still not figure out it's trimmed -- I would insist on reslabbing it to make sure that word is on the label. But I really don't have any doubt that every bidder will know. (And if I really thought somebody wouldn't know, I would have to question whether such a person would be able to figure out it's trimmed no matter how many ways they were told). And even then I would have to say it's got the lowest grade possible. It's got the same grade as other books would get even if they were unreadable, unholdable, unenjoyable and immensely displeasing to look at with horribly defaced and degraded cover images, etc. I've seen people looking at these in the Warner Brothers exhibit, and nobody's had that reaction. (in fact the only comments about the grade were to the opposite, that it looked much better than "poor") No offense to the book, it is what it is. My only issue is with the degree of disclosure on the grading company label. -J. While I wouldn't call it lack of disclosure, I suppose I could see it as an excuse to demand it be reslabbed-- with my real purpose being to get rid of that free-floating piece of paper that somehow ended up stuck in the side of the slab. Something like that diminishes the eye-appeal in a way that's really unfortunate. But it wouldn't be fair of me to demand a reslab on the pretext of adding the word "trimmed" if I don't really think the trimming isn't obvious. Edited August 20, 2014 by bluechip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaydogrules Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 The listing has been revised to indicate that replacements of the missing pages will be provided for no additional charge (replacement pages will come from a different original copy which was in a different bound volume) If a winning bidder so desires, they can pay a nonimal fee for the original 1940 binder which contained the Batman 1 (and other books, bat 2-3 and tec 39-45), which is embossed with the issue dates and titles on the spine and embossed with Bob Kane's name on the front. Book currently on display in Burbank at the Warner Brothers museum exhibit for Batman's 75th anniversary: Any thoughts on whether the grading company would consider THAT to be restoration worth noting on the label? -J. Nobody has suggested that the pages should even be put in the slab with the Kane book. The missing pages are being offered as separate pieces from an original Bat 1 -- OUTSIDE of the slab with the Kane Bat 1. (as far as I know, the grading company might not even call it a Kane book anymore if there are pages from another copy) But some have suggested they would like to restore the book and that they could not do so without the missing pages. So, for those who would actually prefer to restore the book (which I advocate against) then at least they would know, going in, that they had every piece of the book. And if a person wants to keep the Kane book as it is (which I am suggesting) then even in that case, It seems to me, that anybody who buys it would like also to have the pieces missing from that book. All this means is that, despite the fact that Kane tores pages from the book(s) for reuse in his "swipe: file, a person can have the book as Kane left it but they will also have every piece of an original Bat 1. My point being that the book has in fact already had things done to it that are conspicuously absent from the current grading company label. -J. Now I really don't know what you're talking about. Especially since your initial comment was about restoration. There is clearly no restoration to the book. If you're talking about the trimming, as others have mentioned, I agree it would be best if the label had the word trimmed. Or at least that it was consistent so that it said (or didn't say) trimmed, consistently, on each book. if I thought there was any chance that a person who could afford this book would look at the book with all the obvious trimming and then look at the listing with all the words about trimming -- and still not figure out it's trimmed -- I would insist on reslabbing it to make sure that word is on the label. But I really don't have any doubt that every bidder will know. (And if I really thought somebody wouldn't know, I would have to question whether such a person would be able to figure out it's trimmed no matter how many ways they were told). And even then I would have to say it's got the lowest grade possible. It's got the same grade as other books would get even if they were unreadable, unholdable, unenjoyable and immensely displeasing to look at with horribly defaced and degraded cover images, etc. I've seen people looking at these in the Warner Brothers exhibit, and nobody's had that reaction. (in fact the only comments about the grade were to the opposite, that it looked much better than "poor") No offense to the book, it is what it is. My only issue is with the degree of disclosure on the grading company label. -J. While I wouldn't call it lack of disclosure, I suppose I could see it as an excuse to demand it be reslabbed-- with my real purpose being to get rid of that free-floating piece of paper that somehow ended up stuck in the side of the slab. Something like that diminishes the eye-appeal in a way that's really unfortunate. But it wouldn't be fair of me to demand a reslab on the pretext of adding the word "trimmed" if I don't really think the trimming isn't obvious. That's a fair point. But while one would assume that a person bidding on a batman 1 on a site like comic connect "should" know that the book is trimmed, if I am paying a premium for a graded book, I want something like that to be clearly disclosed on the label. Trimming is heavily frowned upon by many, regardless of why or by whom it was done. And yes the little piece of paper in the slab would bug me too. -J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne-Tec Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 We were discussing Batman #1 vs. Tec #31 here recently, and it will be interesting to see where the Kane copies finish. Batman #1 is up to $16,634 with the reserve not met. Tec #31 is up to $4,600. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
